Evolution X (2008): Decade of Domination!

Evo Championship Series
326

Unfortunately logic works against you. Cali had a 100 players to each NY player at MvC2 in 2000, and Justin crushed all of them.

Actually, numbers works against you too. MvC2 has been widely played for seven years now, and you can multiply that if you count previous games in the series, which I don’t. How about Melee?

And numbers work yet again against you when you compare JWong to any Smash player. JWong wins tourneys and money matches in lots of secondary games and games that he doesn’t even play. That’s the difference between Valle, JWong and the Smash guys. Valle and Wong do pretty good at anything they try, even with relatively little practice. Smash guys didn’t place top 64 at a single other game at Evo. I don’t know if the guy you’re quoting meant that, but that certainly is the most important point of them all. Try to do a 5 game challenge between Azen and Choi and see how nice he goes.

Actually, by number of players only, Mortal Kombat Armageddon would have players going much deeper than 3rd Strike.

I just posted because that is actually my reservation against Smash players. Smash players can’t place or do anything good at any other game at Evo. Not saying they suck, but they’re a different community for sure.

A year and a half at MvC2 means that you will not get top 8 or even close to it at Evo or ECC. Seriously, Smash players are starting to get considered as equals to real fighting game players and you guys want to get on some high horse or so.

Why don’t you bet on the challenge the other guy suggested. I would. We give the players 3 months and run PC Chris or whoever lives around NY vs Wong. They go first to 50 in Marvel and first to 50 in Smash, and see who can get the best results. I’m pretty sure Hevad or Blazinflo will throw 5k on Wong right off the bat. Heck, this can even be an huge SRK vs Smashboards event, giving publicity to both sides and communities. If the top Smash players wins, being whoever you choose (maybe that Ken guy is the best one), the community will have the eternal respect from the fighting game community. If he loses, that’s no problem because everybody loses to JWong, but the hype created would be awesome and good for the community as well.

328

i say keep smash. thay way im guranteed 4 hours to eat/sleep/drink more/play poker/shit. That way ill be hella more hype for the better games.

329

fixed~

:looney:

330

i walk into this thread and now people are saying Wong could beat PC_Chris in Melee.

Damn already getting hype for Evok 2k8 money matches and it isn’t even here

331

You’re right. No fighting gamer places in Smash , DoA or Mortal Kombat, the games with the numbers. They also don’t play those games. Either Smash players can’t place in other games, or they don’t want to. Either way it’s not a compliment for them, since they’re not helping the community.

I think both Smash, MK and GTA are good at trumping just about every other fighter across the board in numbers. Now to believe that PC Chris deserves more overall props than Wong, Valle or Daigo it seems a bit of a stretch. You’re talking about players that had zero zoning, execution and mind game skills until they started playing Smash, and they still can’t transfer it to any other game so far. Much more important than that, there were no arcades for Smash. Most Smash players never had that competition that multiplies your skill everyday when you have dozens of different tough players to play against. In the history of fighting games, console players could never get any close of beating arcade players. Today arcades are mostly dead, but Smash players never lived that, never had that competition, and can probably find that diversity only at tourneys and not everyday.

My little money is still with the guy who can place at any other thing he touches. I thought the Smash community would like a bet like that and not the opposite.

Notice that I’m not saying that Smash players suck, that the game has no skill or any stupidity of that sort. I just think its pretty crazy to assume that Smash has the deepest level of gaming right there, when the serious players are just now considering it a fighter.

And of course I’ll bet Wong goes 50-0 at MvC2 and takes one or more games at Smash. That’s the reason for the bet. I don’t think PC Chris can take a MvC2 match out of 50 even if he practices for a full year.

No. It is supposed to be a two games challenge. They would both play Melee and MvC2, and see who can get more wins overall. Asides from my argument with alphazealot that we can never prove without a MM, I think this could be a pretty hyped and interesting match. Plus, we can stop with probably, very likely and a lot of words that have no actual meaning and see what would really happen in a match.

Wong and PC Chris or some other player would have to agree to it first, of course. Maybe it could be done at NEC.

332

This shit has to happen.Wonder what Wong and the Smash boards guys would think about this.

333

I don’t think a money match will serve the purpose. Also, I am pretty sure that JWong plays Smash, or have experience with it. PC Chris, as far as I am concerned, never played MvC2. JWong will have the advantage. Also, instead of having someone that plays all games (JWong) against PC Chris, how about having someone that never played SSBM?

I think something like Ken vs. Yipes would be fairer.

Also, SSBM is very deep in competitive play. I am not saying that it is deeper than MvC2, but I have to say they are about the same.

335

I think the Marvel players would have an advantage.There seems to be alot more players from traditional fighters that are willing to try out Smash Brothers than vice-versa(Hell I even bought a copy of Melee just to see what all the hoopla was about) .

This is no offense to Smash players,but like people have said before me,they tend to stick to that one game

336

The basis of the argument comes from the feeling that Evolution is OUR tournament.

We don’t have to cross over to Smash to help OUR community. You guys have to cross over to us in order to help OUR community.

That’s the argument.

Whether I agree with it or not is another story.

EDIT- Actually, I do agree with the argument from a player’s perspective.

Say you had SmashFest every year (or whatever major tournament you guys run), and it went off great every year.

Next thing you know, the SmashFest guys invite the Marvel players to the tournament. These players play Marvel, and keep it moving. They don’t bother to enter any Smash related events, or even talk to the Smash players.

A week later, the SmashFest guys start talking about cutting Smash singles, in favor of MvC2, due to time constraints. That shit’s cool?

Not at all. The reality is that Evo has been a tournament for SF players, and as a player, I’m welcome to adding all sorts of shit, so long as the core games don’t go by the wayside. The idea that CvS2 may not be at the next Evo, and Smash will is kinda shitty.

I understand that there’s plenty of behind the scenes stuff that I don’t know about, so I’ll keep my opinion relegated to that of a player with limited knowledge, but that being the case, I don’t like it.

337

It is a road that neither communities are willing to cross. Personally, I love 3S, DR, SC, AND SS. I guess I am a minority in this forum; especially since I like Soul Calibur 2.

338

I thnk we know that the fans of <x> game are going to come on and lobby for it and against the games they don’t play.

It’s really not important at this point IMO. What is important is:

  1. What setup should evo have? less games and more side events, or same games and no side events?

  2. The things that happen in the individual communities, the VF5 US release, GG:AC US release, smash brawl, STHD, Tekken 6, etc…

Arguing amongst yourselves is just wasting time. While it’s great to represent your game, this isn’t a “my scene is better than your scene” thread…

339

I think VF5 turnouts was bad timing. I do not think any game should be enrolled to Evolution without being released for at least two years unless the community of the series is really that committed to the game. I think the only series that has such commitment is GG and SS.

VF5 was released on February 20th, which was five months away from Evolution. To all the new VF5 players, I doubt they would know about Evolution. Also, since the game is so new, I doubt that people would be that committed to the game UNLESS they have it in the local arcade. Also, the community is not big in the US … no offense. The game is also on the PS3, which cost $600 at the time. Seriously, I was surprised that the VF5 broke the 40 mark on competitors. Now, if Evolution was held at Japan, there would be a lot more competition for VF5.

I think all games are great. Just because a game does not meet a quota for Evolution is bad, it just means that not enough are people are willing to travel for it. KoF is HUGE in China, Hong Kong, and Mexico and have a ton of tournaments, but will never be big in the states … I think. However, putting it on Evolution would be a waste, in my opinion, because it would not be worth it.

SSB does meet the quota so it should stay. VF5’s test run should had been on 2K9, not 2K7. Even though I like Soul Calibur, SC4 should be given a chance in 2010. I can guarantee that SC4 will not bring numbers next year due to the fact that it will be new. It will just be a repeat for what happened to VF5. I think SSBM should stay for next year though. SSBB would be too early. I guess only time can tell.

340

In all honesty, I think that with the way EVO is being run currently, it is just like any of the other tourneys, just on a larger scale.

I think what staff is looking for is (like FMJ said) should there be more games and no side events, or less games and more side events. I personally would vote for the latter for 2 reasons.

  1. Evo is supposed to be an event that reaches out to everyone in the fighting game community and provide a fun atmosphere where everyone can come, showcase their games and their talents in a big, safe, venue environment. Some games are being neglected due to staff being overburdened with the tourney as a whole, thus frustrating players because their games are being “shitted on”, such as the GG community is. (Just an example, not flame bait :P)

  2. Evo is a place where gamers can come and see other games being played at high levels and help to bridge the gap between themselves, creating a larger, and more focused community by sparking interest in other games that may not be showcased on a regular basis but are worthy of attention. Most time, players cannot do this due to time constraints, therefore eliminating many chances for this aspect of the ‘gathering’ to even occur.

Now, that being said, I think that additionally, EVO is (or was) supposed to be a medium for exciting new news/vids/happenings in the entire gaming world, used to keep the scene interested and entertained. This is what I think EVO has been missing in the past few years and wouldn’t mind seeing come back. If EVO needed to go down to 5 games with tons of side events again, then so be it. EVO has been hype more or less only because of the community’s own actions and effort. For example, Wong vs. DPC could have been done anywhere and still gotten as much hype as it did at EVO. It should have been on the big screen as a ‘stop the tourneys’ event like Wong vs. Choi was.

The point I’m making is that EVO staff seems to be overwhelming themselves with all of the standard tourneys that they are running. We all appreciate their effort, but if they cut back some of the games, and let the player-motivated hype matches get some formal sponsorship, then not only would the experience be better for the players overall, but would cause lots less headache for staff themselves. Sanford vs. Duc was an AWESOME event, and all staff needed to do was put it on the big screen and give a trophy (which is also a very cool idea. staff should give trophies with every event). I think that there should be more showcased events, personally.

More later.

341

I think Evo should be run to kinda have like a basis of every “type” of fighting game, so like an example roster would be like

MvC2
ST
AHF
T5DR
KoF whatever number is out at the time

This is only an example and does not reflect my opinions of what games should be at Evo, but if you have atleast a spec of a brain I think you know what game goes in what “type”

342

the evo staff also needs to realize (and hopefully does realize) that while the Guilty Gear scene in the US may not be as mainstream as the street fighter scene, in Japan Guilty Gear is pretty much the most popular fighting game. It was certainly the most hyped game at SBO and almost every arcade ive been to always has more GG cabs than any other game (with a few minor exceptions but even then the numbers are close). Im sure a lot of this is due to the game being newer, but that doesnt change the fact that the player base for Guilty Gear in Japan is HUGE. Im sure once the US release of AC hits it will help to bring more new players into the game. I just think it would be foolish to drop the series that is actually still being supported (especially now that the US is getting a release). Of course its true that there are hardly any US arcades with Guilty Gear AC so you cant just show up to the arcade and play, but I think most people have realized that as of now their are hardly any arcades left in the US period! The very fact that evo has gone all console is one indication of this, and dropping the newest US released console game after having the series as a staple part of evo for the last 5 years would just seem wrong. Im sure most street fighter players play on console now too. I think if the arcade scene was like it was 10 years ago right now Guilty Gear would be just as popular as Street Fighter. That is to say, I dont necessarily think that the smaller player base in the US is the players faults specifically, the game simply has had a disadvantage of not having such a strong player base in its roots that resulted from a strong arcade scene to begin with like the street fighter scene did. Had street fighter been primarily console from the start and the situation was reversed I bet that the respective situation of the scenes for each game would be reversed as well. I personally dont hate the capcom scene, I love street fighter, I just dont put as much time (pretty much none) into getting good at it as I do with Guilty Gear. I respect the scene and the talent of the players, and I know there are some Capcom players who actually do respect Guilty Gear (mainly the ones that play both…) and I know that many of the SRK staff actually respects Guilty Gear too. It would just seem like a huge waste to scrap it for next year when now is the time to harness the potential of the console release and the fact that this version of the game will most likely stick around for a while which will result in people actually being able to take the time to get used to the same version (like SF games) without having to constantly adapt to changes in order to catch up with the Japanese, as well as the Evo staff not having to worry about version changes at the last minute and lack of availability to US players.

343

I actually tried to schedule time for the GG USA vs Midwest, and also the Justin / DPC money match. One of my initial goals with the very first post was to talk about slimming the lineup so we could do those games better, and have more time for side events (finals of big side tourneys, money matches etc).

344

personally. this being my first evo i did see the flaws with scheduling for each games. time constrants and things of that nature but taking out side tournys isnt really the answer i mean if it wasnt for the open console area in the back i would of never played a SnK game ever it opend up a entirely new scene to me and if ti wasnt for that i prol would never of played any samurai showdown, mark of the wolf or any game like that. as for the smash scene and such. well its true that most of the SF scene or just the general evo scene itself had a interest in the game their is a valid point made it does have numbers. maybe some of the smash community took the opprotunity to try new games and it could help the scene grow more.

345

So this can all be summed up as…don’t take Guilty Gear out of Evo cuz that’s just dumb. Guilty Gear in my eyes is pretty much a new age SF so we gotta keep it in for sure. If we dont promote the new fighters what’s the point in doing Evo? Getting new people into all of the SF stuff we all love is great and all but we cant shun the new stuff if we really want to promote the fighting game scene.

346

how many teams were there for ggxx this year anyway?

347

Read the whole thread (whew) and wanted to support a few ideas.

  • Staff already said they will be stricter about DQs and this is a good idea. Keeping the whole pool there while they are playing is not unreasonable. The current system creates a vicious cycle where players know pools will take forever so they wander off, go eat, play MM, etc… Then when its time for them to play they are of creating a kind of self fufilling prophecy. Just can this BS and make people stay play through the brackets fast and peace out.

-The ideas about seperating people playing in pools and spectators is a good idea also. Often people can be getting called but cant hear because 30 spectators are in front of them talking.

-No last minute Reg is good for simplifying pre-tourney prep, so brackets are already setup. This would allow more accurate scheduling of matches. The idea of posting brackets up on side screens or having bracket printouts for each station is great idea for keeping players and spectators informed about where to be and times.

-Subtitle intros would be great as most people enjoyed the japanese intros more than american players cuz we could read what they said.

-Less games and more side events with bigger emphasis, I dont play marvel but I really wanted to see the DPC vs. Justin match and it would have been nice if this was a better planned big screen event. The GG midwest vs. USA 5V5 1k money match was also crazy. I love watching big money side matches like these as the passion for all the players is high and I would love watching the drama of more matches like this in all of EVOs games.

-On the GG situation, I agree that the players showing up late is unexcusable and GG has always been my favorite game. I was not playing and I was able to set my alarm and wake up for the GG action. Which by the way, it is shame more people werent there, I was cheering and flipping out when Flash and Alex G did the unthinkable and beat a top-ranked all japanese team to take 2nd. People in the GG community have argued for years about whether American players would ever be able to close the gap with japan and seeing it happen live was insane.

-I think the arguements for GG next year have all been said and well put. Now scenes need to just try to make their tournaments more visible on SRK and support the hell out of new players and the US release. Despite GG players being traumatized from its early reception on SRK i think every year I can see more interest in the game.

Despite how some feel, I think the staff has worked with us the past two years and I respect that. People in socal have heard your request for more tourneys and organization and are already planning more ranbats, large full-state tourneys, and trying to organize travel to other majors. I think GG players have proven if you let us know what you (the staff) wants, the players will try to accomodate to get their favorite game a continuing part of the SRK community.

Lastly, thanks for making EVO great this year.