Evolution X (2008): Decade of Domination!

Evo Championship Series
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Man, you don’t have to convince me. Excuses aside, CvS2 always have more players than GG. Maybe both can be in, which would be great. In this case, if next year you still have the least amount of players, this may be a problem. If GG is not sure for 2k8, and that’s what trag said, you better throw some huge majors because the CvS2 guys will be working towards that as well. Just remember that trag’s initial suggestion was to kick both games out.

I took most of what I said back already. GG has big numbers and has big competition. Are those number and competition bigger than most of the other games? Are they big enough to beat those other games and be at Evo? I don’t know, and apparently the people that matters will not be convinced by words, only by actions.

For my personal taste, I’d put all 2d games in. We would have 3rd Strike, MvC, CvS, ST, GG and whatever. For the community, Tekken probably needs to get in and, from trag’s posts, Smash will be in as well. Somebody is going to suffer, and ir may or may not be GG. You don’t have to prove that GG deserves to be there. You have to prove, with actions, that GG deserves to be there more than some other games. The way I see it, with 6 games, and Evo really liking Smash, either CvS2 or GG will be out, and that’s a tough scene to to be competing against

That’s actually not my point. What Ponder meant, IMO, is that GG players were not hungry enough. Usually the hungriest players win. So the supposed hungriest players didn’t even appear to the finals. I can see how this can be seen as an incredibly casual community to the eyes of the organizers.

What you don’t see is that I’m trying to help you here, as trag did. At the first post in this thread you guys were informed, in a subtle way, that your community needs to write less and do more because your game is at risk.

I took most of my previous thoughts back already, and kept trying to explain a point, a point that apparently trag agrees with. That GG should have more numbers.

The other point that I never brought up and you’re trying to blame on me was made by Ponder, or maybe Inkblot. IMO, since you brought my name into this, he thinks the community is not hungry enough.

You can either act on it or write new essays. With essays, you can certainly prove that I’m a misinformed idiot and a complete moron. But you can’t guarantee GG at Evo.

I’m not speaking about GG in this thread anymore. If you think your community already did enough, much more than CvS, than good for you. I hope the Evo staff agrees with you.

We basically have seven games. 3rd Strike/MvC2/Smash/Tekken/CvS2/ST HD/GG. One of them may be out at Evo2k8. The first two are already in. The other 5 games will compete for 4 spots. I’ll stop posting about it because I had my share of bad vibes from this thread already. Let my official standing be that Evo should have 14 games.

As for the staff, they gave a fair warning to everyone. Go throw your tourneys because the weakest community will play Evo X from the BYOC…

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MvC2/CvS2/3S/ST/GGXX:AC/Smash/Newest Tekken or broke!

-SH

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Yes, yes. I was thinking maybe have a central tournament director that oversees the pool tounrmant directors. Have the pool directors and the overall director be equipped with radios so they can communicate back and forth. The main director will enter who won/lost on a computer for whichever pool, then the main director will announce over a microphone:

“Player A VS Player B at pool H start time @ such and such time.” When no one shows up then the pool director will radio back and say Player A and/or Player B is DQed.

Too bad, so sad…you were briefed in the beginning about the rules to stay in pools, etc. Now if it’s a life threatening emergency then I can see leniency. That will be determined on a case by case basis.

This also allows the pool directors more oversight of their pools to prevent cheating, sort out disputes, etc.

Nice post. I love the ideas. I have a few suggestions of my own as well. I know that a lot of you will flame me for suggesting to put a Mortal Kombat game into the tournament for Evolution X. We can have either Mortal Kombat Armageddon, Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 (more people might play that), or Puzzle Kombat. Before anyone says that no one plays Mortal Kombat, I can say the same for other games like Dead or Alive, Virtua Fighter, Neo Geo Battle Colisseum, Melty Blood, Arcana Heart, etc. I’m not saying that I hate the above mentioned games but the following for those games equal the following for Mortal Kombat. Everyone remembers that Capcom and Midway back in the day had no other competition except themselves, even when Namco put out Tekken and Tekken 2.

Coincidentally Mitsubishi is putting out their Evolution X in 2008 as well :wow:

Maybe we can get Mitsubishi to sponser Evolution X with their Evolution X. Think about it. If that happens then maybe Evolution X will put the SRK and Street Fighter community into the mainstream.

PS: In closing, seems like you are the patriarch of SRK…

Also, for the venue, what does everyone think about having a wrestling/boxing ring or an MMA octogon (UFC can sponsor that) for next year like they do at SBO?

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The thing that gets me is people are saying, essentially “If GG was later in the day, people would be interested.” Look, it’s not the Evo staff’s job to get people interested in Guilty Gear and get people to want to see games. That’s up to the community that supports those games. If you’re too drunk or unmotivated to show up and support your friends while they’re winning money, then kick rocks and keep it moving.

What’s strange to me about this is that for the most part, the guilty gear people that show up to Final Round have been some of the most supportive and stress-free people to work with. My experience with guilty gear players at Final Round here in Atlanta has been really awesome. I wish the CvS and 3s players were as tightly knit as the GG people. They keep it friendly, they don’t get in the way, they rarely have the “I don’t have a stick!” issue that seems to plague CvS2 every fucking year, etc. It’s really disapointing to see the GG community basically cannibalize it’s chances at the biggest tournament in the world with shit like “Shouldn’t have been so early in the morning!”.

How are you gonna spend all that money to get out to Vegas, pay for a hotel, drinks, food, etc and then miss the main shit you showed up for? Evo has the best prize structure in America, and you can’t show up to win some money? That’s just fucking stupid. And people trying to justify it with these types of arguments are equally as stupid. You’re not entitled to anything.

DQing people will shave some time off, but it’s not going to be much. Most tournament directors don’t want to go all nazi with the DQing because you spent money to get to where the tournament is, to stay in a hotel, etc. Nobody wants to just fuck the point of your entire trip just to be an asshole, but obviously that’s the route that’s going to be taken because some people can’t be where they’re supposed to.

I swear, the worst thing I’ve seen crop up in this community in the last two-three years is this ridiculous sense of entitlement that leads them to act completely disrespectful. People don’t respect the tournaments, the people in the tournaments, and the tournament directors. If all you’re being asked is to get up, get to where you’re supposed to be, and play a fucking VIDEO GAME while you’re on vacation for the chance to win money, and you can’t even do that… that’s just sad.

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Klaige brings up a good point about GG being singles instead of teams. It’s so hard to find a team mate most of the time for something like this. EVO is the premiere event. NOBODY wants to lose. You want to go in with the best team possible. But sometimes, shit just tends to happen between qualifiers and EVO World and you end up losing your team mates only because they think someone sucks and they need to replace them within just a few months of EVO.

I’ve seen these GG tournies and there are considerable amounts of people that enter singles. It’s just a better way for most because you don’t have to go around hassling and convincing people to be on your team. Especially now that AC is coming out to America, there really shouldn’t be a problem in securing more units. You’ll still have the modded/Japanese PS2s AND the American version. I don’t know how drastic the changes are in AC(outside of just the game freezing glitches and free Jackhound), but this definitely will work out in the long run and will help run a singles tourney.

But yeah, the numbers are big for this game. The problem with it is that it’s GG. The stereotype that follows the game isn’t exactly the best one and tends to make the SF players just look down on the scene.

Marvel/3S/STHD/CvS2/GG/Smash

That’s still a solid line-up. T5DR and SC4 are the more probable candidates, if you ask me. Tekken’s scene does tend to move along with their latest version and since T6 will be the latest, I really don’t know where DR will stand since everyone will be speculating on T6 and keeping up with that a lot more. The only way you’re gonna luck out on T6 is if someone scores a couple of boards and you Supergun that shit seeing as how a port probably won’t be available for import(PS3) by EVO East/North/South/West.

As for SC4: That’s the real question mark for EVO right there. Will the community embrace it? Will it have a huge turnout if tournies are run? Is it even going to be good? It’s a real toss-up.

The real problem here is the 3D department.

EDIT - Cosign on EVERYTHING Ronin said.

At EVO East I had to be up at 10 a.m. for ST quals. I didn’t go to sleep until 5 a.m. the night before. I was basically running on a shitty 4 hours of sleep because I had to wake up at 9 a.m. to shave and shower.

Weren’t GG team pools/semis on Friday? Then you guys had enough time to party.

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Amen.
Give GG a chance. Seriously.

I know when I go to Evo X next year, I’m watching the finals for EVERYTHING. Even the games I dislike. Cause the people who come out and make it to the finals DESERVE that attention.

Plus, the evo staff wants you to have fun, this is a given but they want you to be RESPONSABLE. So don’t run off when your matches are done. Don’t be late for semi’s/finals/interviews/MM’s. Don’t fucking go partying and gambling and get drunk all night and go to bed 3 hours before an event if you know you or one of your friends is in the finals for that said event.

I’m not saying you CAN’T go drinking/clubbing/gamble/play casuals/whatever. It’s vegas. It’s hard not to. But you’re there for another reason. So keep that in mind and keep your “after evo” activities with in reason.

That’s disrespectful to you, your friend(s) and the scene in general. SET YOUR FUCKING ALARM CLOCK AND BE ON TIME. DON’T GET STUPID!

-SH

269

You know this GG talk is really stupid and should really just stop already everyone is saying the same bullshit but bottom line is

The GG community has been shit on for like the past 4 years

2k4 XX even though 95% of the community was playing #R
2k5 actually I think this year was fine
2k6 we were forced to be teams
2k7 we almost had to play crappy slash and it was teams agian

If any of the other communities had to deal with the things we have I can garentee that the support from that community at evo would be alot worse then ours IMO even marvel would become a peice of shit when Yipes/Sanford/Justin teamed up to secure 5Gs and over 100 people dont show up becuase they already know the outcome

2k3, 4, and 5 the numbers were good if I remember correctly it was the 3rd biggest all 3 years but now that its teams a HUGE amount of the community doesnt show up becuase they cant get a team in time singles would put us right back to the top

To the person saying we dont throw tourneys or something

SER next month has become a major with over 60 players from all over the country
MWC major with about 60 players usually attending
TS Japan is present at this tourney 2 years in a row
FR has over 60 aswell
O2 another major GG only I believe

We get the numbers we throw the tourneys but we still havent got the singles tourney we deserve hopefully we can get it next year I garentee the numbers of a GG singles tourney will shit on the ST and CvS2 numbers

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Philly/NJ majors usually get fairly high GG turnouts as well, 40 usually being the absolute worst. In cases were 3s gets 40+ GG will end up with players in the 30 range and 3s is the areas biggest game. GG players also travel way more to me it seems. Mid West/Florida usually goes really out of their way for the game (Midwest travels through multiple states to play eachother and show up to far away majors, Flash Metroid/Alex G go to lots of majors), it’s just my area that doesn’t travel far. While GG is often seen as a side game to our majors in the area, it’s still pretty damn big compared to others.

The GG scene is also exceptionally good at pulling through when shit hits the fan, which it does often uncontrollably. They level headedly work together to solve problems which 3S or Marvel never had to endure in the first place, I think that speaks more for them than anything else, when faced with #R vs Slash, Team vs Nothing, they compromised with the best solution they could get. The only stupid drama GG even had was related to a personal threat and it was associated on GG for some retarded reason.

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The lack of attendance to the GG finals this year and it’s timeslot, being early and being the first 2D game played, are very directly related. Yes, the GG players at least should ALL be showing up regardless of the early time, but considering that is was also a 3v3 tournament I really don’t blame some of the GG players and certainly not the other 2D players for not going because there just wasn’t much hype surrounding it this year. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t hype surrounding the game, or that people don’t really want to win, or anything; it’s just that all of these factors contributed to low turnout to that one event this year. Using this, as well as a few players’ failure to show up on time as a reason to not allow the game next year, especially for one of the few games who’s scene is still growing here and arround the world due to constant revisions and therefore continued popularity seems like a huge mistake. Even with the poor turnout, there still WAS hype at this year’s anyways, with Flash/Alex G’s team taking an unexpected win over team Bas, showing America finally starting to level out with the Japanese skill level.

Like people have already asked: what exactly is the Guilty Gear scene not doing to stay alive compared to 3S or Marvel? It seems to be one of the most active scenes around the country, and certainly around the world, and it isn’t going to die out anytime soon. Using the finals this year as the only reason to question having it next year seems ridiculous: even outside of the finals the game was more hype than ever this year, with a great singles tournament, a 5v5 match for $1k, and tons of smaller matches all throughout the event.

The same things keep being repeated regarding this years’ evo and what the scene needs to do but I don’t see any answers from the Evo staff besides get more active and stay positive… which is happening. The US, bug-less version of GG will help fuel the scene even more. What else is there?

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Funny thing about some GG players is that they’re all talk, and no show. Yet online (forums), they come in huge numbers. If you guys want GG to stay, you need to start showing up at Evo. GG has one of the lowest turnouts each Evo session. If singles would resolve this, then go to singles. But, that would consume more time.

273

What were the numbers?

274

The way things are going, EVO might aswell just become a Capcom only event, who knows Capcom might show more interest if its just their games on display. ST:HDr, 3s, MVC2, CVS2, A3 and maybe one or a couple of the following:

in order of most appropriate.

Alpha 2
GGPO has promoted the game alot, and it has the player base too. Although i dunno if you can justify having 2 alpha games in the same major. I miss the exhibition events from evo2002. This would probably be a good candidate for it.

HF
Biggest selling game on 360 xbla at one point, i think its worth considering, most people on srk probably started off playing the CPS1 SF2s anyway. Unlimited number of possible entrants. Although no really good ports. 360 is prob best, but lack of good arcade sticks. PSX ports arent exactly ideal either. Similarly it would make a great exhibition, but on arcade cabs.

CFJ
i know people hate it, but if theres money for it people will play CFJ. Plus its a game alot of capcom players can get into, since its had sf2, a3, 3s, warzard and darsktalker characters. Bearing this in mind i think it would get a decent turnout. 100+

Xvsf or MVC
Both would get very decent numbers i think, but kind of pointless considering MVC2, if i had to choose one it would be XvSF since its further away from MVC2.

HSFA
Unproven game atm, but looks terribly broken, maybe restrictions to just alpha1/2/3 characters, even then alpha1 characters are very strong. Also would make having alpha 3 or 2 pointless if this is chosen, and another game would be have to chosen aswell. Another possible good exhibition event. Gathering all the best alpha1 ,2 and 3 players together.

HSF2
Since ST:HDr will prob be there these is superfluous, but would get decent numbers too.

Vampire Savior
I dunno really, even a dead game in Japan, but i think even this would get more entrants than DOA/VF had.

This idea is probably sounds ridiculous, but everyone seems to be shitting on all non Capcom games atm, so maybe its the solution.

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This is due to misconceptions about the scene and the game itself, for Guilty Gear at least. This is a somewhat of a big problem that really should be corrected; just because GG players don’t post on SRK and don’t get as worked up over matches (arguably), that doesn’t mean we aren’t big or strong enough of a scene to not be at Evo, and seemingly random hate from capcom fans doesn’t help.

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The GG scene keeps its shit together throughout the year, but the one time during the year when it reallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllly matters most (outside of Alex / Peter doing great) you guys fuck up? I’m not pointing fingers or whatever, but it looks GG is showing proof of its worth by using every color in the damn spectrum (majors throughout the year, constant growth), but some people are still looking at it in black and white.

I don’t think the GG scene is going to go anywhere (but up) so keep them in there ;P.

Honestly, I wish people would open their fucking eyes and just play the game or just stop openly hating on it already, it’s been a good 5 years now they’ve been in evo, damn.

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OK guys, Guilty Gear needs to stop whining.

What happened in the finals is past us now, nothing more can be done. We just have to be responsible and make sure we don’t repeat that.

We have been doing a lot for tournaments, and need to keep going. In particular, WEST COAST needs to step it up and travel to majors, as this will help both the turnouts and quality of play. I think that’s where GGXX gets kind of a bad rap - WC has a strong tradition in like every other fighter out there, but has fallen off in GGXX the past couple years, so to the other WC heads the game looks small. The ranbats are a great idea…you need a good commentator, too. For instance, my brother doesn’t play fighters at all but will watch anything with Rockefeller in it.

Also, I keep saying this, but run a national tourney with regional qualifiers, separate from Evo. As tragic has said, the players were able to do this for SC3 with no support from Namco. And who knows, maybe you could get Aksys on board with this one!

Kensou: I definitely understand the importance of good positioning & zoning…that was actually a weakness of mine in Gear before, but I am learning this now. However, it doesn’t have the same kind of emphasis it does in ST for example. Think airdashing here - a lot of old-schoolers seem to have a problem with that. Tekken is more of a poke game that 2D people can get into, which was my point here. =)

Thank you for the informative discussion, everyone, and I am optimistic that the cream will rise!

-Josh

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I actually disagree. People who don’t even like Marvel are excited by watching Justin and Yipes play that game. Every game needs an ambassador. Afrolegends, for example, came from nowhere in the past couple of years to start dominating in ST, and he has hella new fans all over the place in a game that’s 15 years old. I honestly think he’s helped bring in some new spectators to the game and generated new buzz.

If you became some super dominant force in GG and the community rallied around you (either by rooting for you or calling you overrated or whatever… thre’s no such thing as negative press), I do think it would make a huge difference. Perhaps a lot of it IS blunted by the team format. It’s something that will definitely have to be taken into consideration.

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Hellmonkey for GG Champ '08

GET HYPE

Really though, there is already some of this going on in the GG community, but I don’t think it’s spreading to people who don’t usually play or watch GG. Singles will help.

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i couldnt attend evo this year, but i’m i was wondering how was the attendance for VF5. its new and for the PS3 so how is it?

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Good suggestions and commentary all around. Just keep in mind that we aren’t here to insult entire batches of players and/or the game they choose to play. Stay positive. If you have something to contribute, do so without trying to make someone (or some group) feel bad for their preferences. This discussion is simply about the games, how we get them done on time, and boost all of the communities involved.

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Trag - Have you guys ever considered booking time and space for side tournaments? I don’t know if any of you are even open to the thought, but I am still of the opinion that we need to show/play as much as we can, to find which games might be possible future “big” titles. Look at the Melty guys, or look at how many people couldnt tear themselves away from Breaker’s Revenge last weekend.

Any thoughts on this?

I mean, what if side tournaments (certain ones, pre schedualed), got like an hour each of bigscreen time for their final 3?