One more comment…this thread is crazy. The following statements are incompatible.
So the “turnout would have been better if the tournament was later” line is not a defense. We want all the games on Sunday to be hype, even if they’re the first game up.
Puzzle Fighter would be on the same lines as Mario Kart DS, IMO.
Seriously.
I think the big 4 (ST, MvC2, 3S and CvS2) should stay and we should only add one MAYBE two games.
And I honestly think those games should be Smash Melee/Brawl (Melee if Smash came out like a month or so before hand, not enough time to learn shit. Then again. I don’t know cause I’m probably the only person in the universe who doesn’t give a shit about Brawl so iunno it’s release date) and the other game should be the newest Tekken if it’s still alive, if not, I’m all for just ST/CvS2/MvC2/3S/Smash or Brawl.
If you guys could add more games and schedule in side events, great. I’d be all for it. But if not, that’s cool too, you gotta do what you can work with. Don’t over do yourselves and get burnt out.
Also, I’d like to add, I appreciate everything you guys do for the community as a whole. And as much as these people bitch and complain about PERSONAL issues with the way the tournament is held.
But on the same token, I’ve never been to an EVO event, so I can’t say their gripes are valid or just them being bitchy people. But, either way, bitching about personal issues towards something is expected, especially on the internet.
I bet if you gave the power to us players Evo would fall apart with in hours. It takes a lot of skill/patience/dedication to do what you guys do. Keep it up. EVO X BABY!
-SH
DQing will speed up the tournament and we’re going to be much more strict in '08. But just stricter DQ’s will not bring in the schedule by more than an hour or two.
Most of the tournaments are slotted for only 3 hours (CvS2 and Smash are 4). DQing instantly will not make the tournament run 2x as fast. Think about this for a second – Evo runs a 250 - 350 man tournament down to 8 people in just 3 hours then we do it again, and again, and again. Then the next day we do it 4 more times. We’re already moving at a breakneck pace.
Technical difficulties are a much bigger problem, and they’re unpredictable. A console goes dead, or a particular console will not work with someone’s particular brand of stick and converter, so that TV goes unused for a while and the tournament official has to constantly juggle matches around to ensure that that guy never plays on that console.
And remember, if EVERYTHING goes flawlessly, the day is still 14 hours, which is a little insane and leaves almost no time for special events, which are some of the most fun parts of Evo.
Grouping similar games together would help this. As someone already mentioned, most people who wanted to watch 2D fighters ended up just skipping Guilty Gear because it was too early and showed up to ST or CVS2, whenever they woke up; that is if they even showed up to those, many others just did casuals until Smash ended because they didn’t care about it and only wanted the last few games. Putting the most popular games to the community as a whole (read:capcom) earlier would also get the most people out for the most hype, as they’d stay for the other games they normally wouldn’t get up for. Putting any 2D fighter in the AM before a capcom game is played, as the first 2D game, is dooming it to low audience. I understand saving MVC2 for last because it seems to create the most hype of all the games, but the first 2D game that is run should be from capcom to get the most people out.
I also get the feeling that the people there for Smash and 3D fighters are mainly there for those games- not as much for the 2D games, so they’ll come out regardless of time slot. Doing those games before the 2D games also allows the new people coming into the scene (smash players this year) to get exposed to all of the 2D fighters, hopefully getting them interested and increasing the player base. I’d be willing to guess under 10% of the SSB players showed up for GG or the first half of CVS2 this year. SSB:Melee, at least, doesn’t seem to need any extra hype, and I’m sure brawl will be even bigger with no help, so making it an early slot probably wouldn’t hurt it much in terms of getting the audience or players out.
Honestly I don’t see any reason as to why any games NEED to be dropped, unless the number of entries was really that low in any of the games this Evo(I have no idea what the numbers were like.) Time issues can be dealt with almost entirely by being stricter with entrants, from what I’ve read about how it went down this year. Making it a completely online pre-registration required event would also help this a lot, and it sounds like this is already likely to happen for next year’s Evo.
Cut all games but ST and add in TGM and SFEX3 ^.^
Seriously though, keep ST. Its the only game that evo has on the list that I’m even remotely interested in.
I know the thread’s already moved onto other things, but I just wanted to point out that changing the lineup is an attempt at streamlining the tournament and making things run faster.
If that’s the case, getting rid of ST isn’t really going to do anything. That game’s fast as hell.
MvC2,ST,CvS2,SSBM/SSBB,Guilty Gear and Tekken
Between VF,DoA,and SC.If nothing can be decided I would just drop all 3 games
never get rid of ST that game will always be played. and got big numbers at world 
anything else i would say has been said and if TRAGIC the dude who loves ggxx and runs dustloop.com THE guilty gear site is saying maybe gg should be cut you can say its a serious thing. i was there last year at 11 watching tekken and i don’t even like tekken, i stayed there for guilty gear ae cvs marvel and 3s and guess what i partied after, if you can’t get up for the chance to win 5k you need to be d d d d d d disqualified and split up the rest of the money between teams already there thats inexcusable, they’re gonna give you money for playing a video game and you can’t get up at 11? thats not fucking early step your alarm game up.
really though give all bracket runners a megaphone i was laying on the floor by my 3s bracket but it was so loud i couldn’t hear my name till i got up and stood right next to whichever cannon it was running bracket d, same thing for cvs2 though for marvel i had a good seat so i could hear everything
Your right, however you can not say that it doesn’t have anything to do with it either. Not saying to change it, but you have to understand that it does have some kind of toll on it. The later games are more hype because of the tension for waiting to see what happens and being more awake. Im not trying to argue that we cant have games in the morning because that would be wrong and we wouldnt have time, but i am saying that it does have a lot to do with the turnout and hype-ness.
Maybe im wrong about evo, but in the local tourneys (which have from 80 to over 100 players) for SSBM are mostly kids (90% or more of them). Knowing this i think its safer to have that earlier than all the other games. Thats my opinion on that matter anyway.
MvC2, 3S, STHD, 1 namco game (sc4/newest tekken/dr), CvS2, 1 extra game
So I read about 10 pages and basically the only valid reason GG doesn’t have a guaranteed slot is because the finals at evo2k7 had a bad attendance. And IMO it’s a pretty lame basis to consider it for cuts since that problem can be easily solved by the staff.
Let’s consider the tournament turnout, GG brings in good numbers. Just out of curiousity what did it get this year I think 3rd or 4th highest entrants? Even so, the fact that the game was just released AND it was teams does have some sort of impact on the number of entrants, so it has potential to be even higher. Quite a few of the players are also cross-game players so it’s a good help overall to Evo. It’s also a game that’s played worldwide. Attracting players over the globe definitely leaves a good image for Evo.
GG already has a thriving community. There’s tournaments all over the US, Canada, Japan, China, and even Europe for the game. Some do ranbats, others do monthlies, but whatever some sort of tournament happens and happens as frequently as the community for other games hold their tournaments. The GG community holds tournaments to send people to SBO just like the community of other games. I think that should clearly show everyone that we’re as active as the community for any other game, and that we are self-sufficient, we can keep our own community’s legs standing strong.
The game itself also has a very strong following. The #1 popular fighting game in Japan should speak for itself. Lots of worldwide players. And the game has continuous support from developers, so it’ll always be alive and kicking.
I’m not sure what other magic the 3S and MvC2 community is doing that the GG community doesn’t do, because I’m sure we’re as competent as them. So really, if the community is active, and a large worldwide community exists, then the only reason I see for not giving this game a guaranteed slot is the bad audience for the finals at evo2k7 which all the cannons here seem to keep bringing up. I’m trying to think positively about this but the only replies from the cannons I see is telling the community to be active like the other communities, which is already the case as Klaige has repeatedly been saying but nobody is paying attention. Do we have to start pulling $4000 money matches like 3S and MvC2 to show our hype?
GG definitely deserves its guaranteed slot. This is madness.
Is there maybe something small you can possibly give away to incite players to come to morning finals? Instead of so many people having the attitude of “I don’t like that game I’ll sleep in”, instead they should come out to support it, maybe free breakfast or something signed…you see where I’m going with this
I skipped everything about how you were so polite. But you were.
Since you’re so preocuppied with the exact meaning of what has been said, I would like to point it out this is not exactly what I questioned. If CvS2 players start playing Smash, that’s great for the Smash community. Kudos for them!
What I worry about is the fact that, as far as we know, most Smash players have not entered other games (or have they?). So if your educated guess includes the idea that, as I said before, more Smash players will play ST than 3rd Strike players will, it is much more of a guess than anything else. If you want to test it, fine. But, based on the data we have so far, this does not seems to be very likely. That’s my main point from the start. In my humble single opinion, we have no basis to believe that Smash players will help the other communities like MvC2 and 3rd Strike players usually do.
That’s just what I think, and we’ll need another Evo with SSBM to change it, so I appreciate your tiem reading my points and I’ll drop this specific subject from now on.
About your newest suggestion, I don’t think you should drop ST HD. This would be almost like slapping Capcom in the face. They will become a little more afraid of launching a new game since the hardcore community may despise it in spite of their best efforts.
They don’t make any money. Evo is not for profit and it’s REALLY not for profit.
Anybody that runs a business knows that you can’t please everybody. You need some focus to do whatever.
I like your idea, but the money is not there yet. IMO, they should charge way bigger entry fees. The players will spend a lot of money anyway, and most of it goes to AA and Exxon… Plus, if they charge it really hard, people will have less money to go clubbing or to the casino adn they’ll watch more games …
About GG, one of the concerns for the Evo staff are the low numbers. When compared to MvC2, 3rd Strike, SSBM, Tekken and even CvS2, GGs turnout is pretty low. It’s pretty big, but not as big as the other games. There are 5 games (maybe 6 with ST) with bigger turnouts than GG, and ST HD is the new game from Capcom that probably will be there. With 6 games, even with lots of players, GG does not have enough.
If GG is on the next Evo, I think you guys should bring the huge numbers you’re always talking about. If you can’t do that, I think GG will be out of the roster.
Although some may think I do, I have nothing against GG. But you gotta understand the problem to do something about it.
Guys… seriously, stop complaining about how early a game is. I agree that GG could have been scheduled better, but if you can’t wake up early enough for FREE MONEY, it’s your mistake. IT IS NOT A STAFF PROBLEM. Trying to rationalize it is getting us nowhere, so can we please just move on? ANYWAY.
RE: the BYOC room
I feel that if you want the IDEAL BYOC situation, you definitely should follow these rules:
How does that sound?
Harming or restricting side tournaments is a terrible idea. People run those to try and show everyone that there are some great fighters worth playing that are not n the evo lineup. I even think evo should point them out and support them — so long as its iron clad in the rules that official tournaments take priority and you will be DQed.
Trying to squash these is like trying to squash our future as a comunity. Fighting gamers need to stick together. We are already a niche and its going to be more bisected if we cant support eachother and get along.
Power you can stop grasping at straws anytime, we’ve answered those complaints already about the numbers. If you require an explanation again, it’s quite simple, the numbers at Evo are still strong enough to support the game being there especially when you consider the following:
The game hasn’t had a stateside release since Xbox #R almost 3 years ago (this will be fixed in a little over a month).
The team tourney format was a compromise we took to ensure the games continued run at Evo when the whole “slash vs. reload” debacle was happening in 2005. Most players do not want the team format for such a large tourney, but we did whatever we could to make sure the game would stay in. The staff chose this route because they did not like the idea of trying to secure enough japanese ps2’s to efficiently run a singles tourney, with a stateside release again the issue is solved. Make it so singles is the main run and i assure you the turnout is going to go up, but regardless the stateside release of the game will bump up that number even if the game remains a team tourney format.
As I’ve said already, the same issues seem to be coming up over and over again. Yes the player attendence at the finals is an inexcusable thing, that being said, we are talking about a very very very small portion of the guilty gear players involved in the finals, and just because a few made a mistake (and im sure that’s all it was, some of you are trying to make it sound like the gg players did this just to spite the evo staff or something), is no reason to demolish an entire community.
The community has the numbers, they have the determination and knowhow to put on a good event, and most of all they really do enjoy this game. The game itself is fresh, it puts a solid modern spin on the 2D fighter genre and is constantly updated and tweaked to keep things interesting and balanced (to whatever extent you consider “balance” in gg).
Put this discussion back on track and continue to help us understand what it is you want to see out of the game and the community. Running in circles around the same silly arguements that have little bearing on the overall situation is a waste of everyone’s time, especially when you consider that they are constantly being brought up by a guy who “hasn’t attended evo”, and has done nothing but contradict himself in nearly every post on this thread.
I have to head out of town soon, so I won’t be putting much more into this discussion for a bit, but I do hope by the time I come back the focus is back on discussing the merits of the various games on the cutting block and not on nitpicking useless points from the posters who have brought nothing to this very important topic.
I have yet to go to an Evo, so sorry if this suggestion seems a little naive. I read a couple pages back a complaint about a delay in pools due to people lending a stick/waiting to get their stick back, out eating, restroom, etc. - but the complaint that caught my eye was that other people were away from their pools due to watching other hyped events/mm’s.
I don’t really have a firsthand idea of how the evo floor is organized, but to keep the people who want to see their favorite hyped event in the area where they’re supposed to be, perhaps you could designate some spare televisions to display those matches at nearby active pools? That way they can see what they’ve wanted to see (and probably hear the hype from a mile away), and be in the vicinity of where they are supposed to be for their game.
Just a thought, since it would cut one excuse for delayed pools off the list.
3 big screens. One should be notes, one should be mms, and one should be side tournament finals. yeah!!
haha thnx
I completely agree with you but you know how people are I can become the jwong of GG and it would only mean anything to gg players but as soon as jwong becomes decent in the game the game automatically catches the eye of a billion people from every game
It kinda sucks that nobody was there to see it =( but I plan on taking the title from japan next year =)