Thanks DSP.
One more thing. I would like to see the RR for Top ST only for USA. This is kind of ending a grudge between a ton of us. And we need to keep it between us.
And FMJ the 32 man invitational is one of my tournies.
DogFace dont you go cheating on me. Remember I know where your family lives. So keep it in your pants.
My mistake. That’s not so bad I guess.
Thank you very much. You are too awesome.
That sounds fine with me. Given that my math was off by 2x, we should probably do 20 people or more, especially if we’re switching it to 2/3.
Nobody can say no to you! 
I want to do round robin purely for the reason that everyone must play everyone, so it severely reduces flukes. That is the only way to get a really good idea of where everyone stands. A perfect example of why I don’t like double-elim would be my ST run from last year. Choi was the only ST Godfather who I had to play, yet I placed above all of them. The idea of that doesn’t sit well with me, and I’m sure others feel the same way.
If there’s anyone who could do well overall, I’d have no problem inviting that person. I’m not going to be a Nazi about this…I’m totally open to suggestions/criticisms. Graham is one person I hadn’t thought about. Though I’ve personally never seen him play ST, I know the name, so he’d definitely be a candidate.
I was just trying to keep it reasonable (for time restraints). My math was severely off, so please disregard my original number.
There is a problem, and it becomes painfully obvious everytime “DSP” and “ST” are used in the same sentence. People are calling a massive fluke on the ST results from last year, and I know I’m not the only one who wants to see if that’s the case or not.
I guess that’s where we disagree. Bracketing gives a decent idea of rankings, but only round robin determines really accurate rankings.
Wow, I don’t remember reading about capped ST singles…
But I agree that we can’t plan anything for certain until the Evo schedule is announced.
This is a very valid point.
Hahaha…I <3 you too.
A 20 man round robin is 190 sets, which is the same number of sets in a 95 man double elimination tourney. That will take some time. It’s much harder to run, though, because you need a lot of people there for the most of the tournament. It may be hard keeping people around that long (assuming that they have Evo matches to play).
Round-robin tournaments can be fixed via win-trading. Especially near the end after a bunch of upsets are bound to have happened. Suppose Stalin and Kennedy are tied for the the lead with 1 match remaining: Stalin vs. Mao. Mao was the favorite to win until he got upset bigtime and is now guaranteed 3rd no matter what happens. Suprise, suprise, Stalin upsets Mao to take the title. Conicidence?
Lol when i actually hit retirement age ill still be schooling the young ones on that game =P Maybe we should put some of the money toward buying the new kids some strategy guides =)
One more thing NKI. Im more then happy to let you take over one of my cabs for as long as you need. But this will be your thing. Me and Bacardi will be swamped with our tournies to really give you much help.
With that you are more the welcome to record all the matches and do with them as you please.
This will be crazy. Three ST tournies in the same weekend. Plus what ever EVO runs. Its going to be ST overload!
Originally Posted by NKI:
I want to do round robin purely for the reason that everyone must play everyone, so it severely reduces flukes. That is the only way to get a really good idea of where everyone stands. A perfect example of why I don’t like double-elim would be my ST run from last year. Choi was the only ST Godfather who I had to play, yet I placed above all of them. The idea of that doesn’t sit well with me, and I’m sure others feel the same way.
Wow dood, is that really true? In that case you don’t know how good you had it…I had to fight Choi, Wilson, Watson, Flash G and then James Romedy, in that order. Somehow I got the black bracket of death, and you got a smooth ride…I cry foul! However, a true round robin pool WILL eliminate any flukes like that. My only issue is time, if we’re doing a 32-man round robin it could take AGES even with multiple cabinets…at TS6 we ran pools of like 10 people, 2 out of 3, for Marvel on one cab and it took something like 2-3 hours per pool. Now keep in mind it’s Marvel and you figured ST is probably 2x the speed of that game…but also factor in we’re multiplying the number of people in the pool by 3 or 4 times…and then the hype that will be behind some of these matches, people are going to take their sweet time…this could possibly take an entire DAY at EVO and it’s going to be really hard to keep 32 people standing around the ST cab, just like Ponder said, when they need to eat, shit, piss, sleep, fuck (if they’re lucky) and play other games at EVO. I mean I love ST, but I want to play other shit too…
In truth, if you’d like we can start holding regional qualifiers for people who didn’t make it in as a shoe-in…for example, I can have playoffs between JetPhi, Jeron, Flash G, and a few others whose names elude me, at ECC this year. Just let me know what we’re doing and consider it done!
Ponder: I didn’t know that world dictators played ST, that’s fucking hardcore man.
Graham: nah, if we bought them strategy guides we’d only be employing Wizard a little longer…
32 man round robin will not happy. ANd no one has even mentioned that. Max pool will be 15-20.
And we can do a 8 man RR for the best Dictator ever.
Hitler - 12,000,000 Dead
Stalin - 13,000,000 Killed
Pol Pot - 1,700,000 - He owned up cambodia
Mao Ze-Dong - 49,000,000 killed - The Sagat of Dictators
Hideki Tojo - You know he owns cuz hes Jap. But THE BOMB got him in the end.
Saddam Hussein - Kind of a small fry compaired to Pol Pot and Hitler. None the less he held that shit down. Kind of the Dan of Dictators.
Benito Mussolini - WW2 any one?
Kim Il Sung - 1,600,000 - Owning up North Korea back in the day.
If Hitler and Pol Pot start to win swap heads will roll!
Yea it sounds like fun, but the whole thing seems totally flawed. Why on earth you need so many people in this thing is a mystery to me. Can anyone honestly believe that anyone other than Cole, Choi, Valle or Watson will take the top spots. Maybe a couple of others like Nelson or Shirts. But who will win this thing basically depends on the day, cause any one of them could be the winner.
Also it would prob be much better if everyone had to stick with one character, or the whole thing could just turn into one big counter fest.
Best fuckin Idea I have heard all damn day. That comment just made my week.
Yeah, so many Jap lovers around here, lets make it jap style tourney.
1 CHARACTER!!! So whoever wins will not only be known as best ST player, but also claim they are ultimate with that character. No counter character gayness, come strong or dont come at all!
Lets see who has the balls for this. :arazz:
J-Cole
I would have to agree with the one character as well. Oh a sea of o.sagat on ST would be soo much fun to watch.
LOL, i’m glad someone appreciated my input. unlike…
If you honestly think everyone will pick o.sag then thats your problem.
If you allow people to pick who they want, then it will be a serious problem. Since everyone will be playing everyone, and everyone knows whos eachothers mains are, people will be able to plan ahead and know exactly who to pick to counter who. This could result people countering counter picking, by picking thier own counters incase people attempt to counter pick them. Which in turn will result in fewer people playing with thier mains meaning a lower quality tournament, but woteva, you counter pick away.
Not likely. The group of guys that are gonna be in this have played eachother thousands of times outside of Phil… They would each bring their heat and try their best.
r3ko you misread the comments
Not only do i deserve a spot, but i deserve the number one seed.
You know a whole lot more than I do about tournament directing, so I’ll take your word for it. What do you think would be a good cap? Fifteen?
That’s true, but that is only towards the end. Compared to the possibly whack results a double-elim tourney could produce, I see round robin as the lesser of two evils for this particular event.
Understood.
(Is there anyone who would be able to help run it?)
I think people really over-exaggerate counter characters. Personally, I don’t care if my opponent chooses O.Gief or O.Sagat; I’m choosing Chun. Instead of running to the counter-character, try just learning the match. You might be surprised that it’s not as hard as people hype it up to be…
If only you had been born 10 years earlier! :sad:
In my opinion, I’d be against the whole 1 character thing…
The whole idea here was to see who is the absolute best ST player in the US, not to see who is the best with a certain character in the US. Limiting people to picking only 1 character seriously isolates players…giving some a huge handicap, and others a huge advantage…for example, Jason Cole plays ONLY Dhalsim in tournament play, so obviously he’s at a major advantage here, and is probably why he agreed with this idea…
The round robin will just be a slew of “well we knew who would win that match, so-and-so is dominant in that matchup” with maybe a handful of upsets thrown in here are there. That’s not a “best in the US” event at all, that will be a boring day of seeing standard counter matches that nobody can do anybody about. Might look good on tape since people will learn the ins and outs of the matches of ST, but it makes for one shitty tournament.
I pick 3 characters in serious tournament play, not one. I don’t have a determined “best fighter,” I like to think that all three guys I pick are good in certain situations. I’m not a one trick pony, I’m the type of player who adapts to the situation. Some people, like Cole, pick only one character who really has no counter, and masters that character. Then there are others who adapt to situations and select different characters.
I’m not entering a round robin ST tournament that only allows me to select 1 character because I’m not out to prove I’m the best Vega, or the best Dee Jay, or whatever in the US…because that’s not what I care about. I want to prove I’m the best overall competitive ST player in the country, not the best with one character. So if that’s what you’re doing at EVO, count me out.
OK DSP is out. So how many we got left? We getting this down to 10 people?
J-Cole
Another alternative would be to just vote people in for the RR, and use it as a qualifier for a 5on5 with japan. Several reasons why:
I remember Valle (if it wasn’t him i apologize, i can’t search ATM) complaining that players are content with money matching each other instead of winning tournies, it would be really ironic if all the top OG ST players were involved in basically one big money match for a lesser title.
The 1 character format makes more sense in a team tourney qualifier, because you can only play one char in the 5on5 (you would have to allow duplicates).
It solves the controversy about who gets selected because you can just let srk vote.
People will be less inclined to win swap if theres still a reason to keep your placing.
This was tried before in MvC2, and i didn’t see it solve anything as far as history is concerned. I think everyone agrees that the ‘dethroning’ occured when sanford beat justin legit in tournament finals. Without that, the invitational would have been a ‘nice win’, not a championship.
Because it’s a qualifier, you can have it at an earlier time or even the night before the first tourney day.
Letting SRK vote on 10, having a RR to trim the list down to 5, and sending those to beat up on japans team sounds pretty good to me. As you can see the politics over this tournament has already started, the only way to really crown a champ is to have a open tournament or at least a lot more than 10 people, and the only ST champ that is worth talking about will be the next one to win a tourney with pretty much everyone that could ever have a shot at the title in it, regardless of origin.
So instead lets turn this into something that I think the players would be just as excited about, something fair to all the players involved, and keep the singles goal to be the champ of all of ST.
Nah keep it as an invitational.
This isn’t a “We cant beat the Japs so lets not let them in”. Its to see who actualy is the best. And this will be a tournie not some “Big money match”.
By forcing some one to stick with one character it will also show how well you know the game. A person that has taken the time to work out the bad matchups is more skilled then a person that has just worked out 3-4 characters to counter pick their opponent.
Nah…
People are less likely to win swap if its winner take all.
This ws never posed as a Championship. Its more of a who is the best of the best and where do you place. The championship will be the 32 man invitational, 3v3 and the EVO game.
Im looking at this as more of an exabition (sp?).
NKI im behind you 100%.
Have the round robin seed an 8 way single elimination bracket. Ties determined by who won their match, unless its for 8th, in which case their match is continued to a best of 5(w/l is kepted from their previous match, so if you went 2-1, you start ahead by that). I simply hate the idea of losing from a tie in a round robin without a rematch. As long as you make top 8 in the rr(which if you didn’t you probably don’t have a big chance of winning anyway), you can still come back to take first. Assuming no tie for 8th, this adds 7 matches to the tournament. I’d suggest 3/5 matches for the final 8.
I’m also against limiting it to one character per person.