because that was the intent with this specific monitor, and that’s how it was marketed.
Alienware OptX? AW2210 21.5 inch Full HD Monitor Product Details
obviously this doesn’t exactly mean that there is 100% no lag at all, but again, in my tests, the lag is minimal, and less than that of an asus, which is already imperceptible.
this may be an issue, but i tested the alienwares both in game and “normal” operating modes, and did not notice a difference. it makes a slight difference on the Asus monitors, however.
the 2310 wasnt available when i tested the 2210.
there really isn’t any logical explanation i could think of for the discrepancy between the CRT and the 2210. Originally, I thought it may be a function of the curtain shutter on the DSLR camera, and maybe i should have used my old Nikon D70 with a leaf shutter, but then i realized that the difference would be seen on both the top and the bottom stopwatches – and in most cases only one is faster, not both.
someone mentioned that it may be caused by the video card sending the video to the primary monitor faster than the secondary “cloned” monitor, but again, that’s not the case since i know the CRT was hooked up to the primary input and besides, the CRT was the one being cloned, not the LCD.
Hmm interesting, in any case I ma go out on a limb and give the 2310 a shot. Should be ordering it within 2 weeks. When I get it ill gladly post my experience and results with the monitor. Its gonna be a rockband 2 auto calibration test so take it as you see fit, but anything is better then my current 70-75 ms 47LG70 (also rockaband tested, so it could be even worse).
Anybody complaining about those monitors lagging is being dumb.
“Hey guys, I think this monitor was lagging.”
“Really? He’s the test results from several people/sites showing that there is less than a 16ms delay. These are tested, verified results that were generated using accepted valid testing criteria.”
“I don’t care about your tests and facts it lags!!! I can FEEL lag that your puny millisecond measuring devices can’t find~”
“Okay. Can I interest you in some wooden knobs to make your stereo sound better?”
Seriously, Circada, you’re a saint putting up with these knuckleheads.
except there was lag. people don’t feel these things on CRTVs, even in MMs with more $ on the line than simply $10
you correctly test those exact monitors at that exact time with that exact game and then *maybe *(depends on actual testing method) your idiot-ass can talk. until then, stfu.
Hahahah
“Fuck your facts, I FEEL it!”
Hey Beats, care to explain to us why the test is invalid? Other than, “cause I’m a big baby and I say so?” Oh, feel free to explain how you can personally feel ms of lag more precisely than a stopwatch and camera setup?
From a technical perspective, lag is always a possibility. It’s hard to act on a fear or perception, there has to be some sort of evidence, heck even something close to evidence.
What’s complicating the issue is that people who are complaining about lag are not consistent, here is an dramatization:
“Hey setup <x> has lag, setup <y> doesn’t”
-“Hey here’s a setup, does it have lag”
“Yeah this lags too wtf”
-“That was the setup you just said had no lag”
“WHY DO I HAVE TO TEST THIS YOU SHOULD KNOW”
-“How can we know if you don’t know?”
“I do know”
-“But you claim that there was both lag and no lag on the same setup… while there may be lag in some specific situation you should now realize that this is not a trivial issue and that we cannot guarantee you will like any possible setup”
“YO WTF THIS LAGS”
-"…"
You might want to take the players word for it, but players have previously complained without fail about every tournament setup, it’s impossible to avoid complaints. The only thing that makes sense is to continue to research and test until something is discovered, or until all reasonable possibilities have been exhausted, in which case people will just need to practice on the tournament setups.
Players’ feelings better than real, repeatable lag tests with proper equipment?
Referees better than slow motion replays from multiple angles?
Also don’t forget about non-display-related input lag. SSF4 PS3 = 5 frames input delay; SSF4 Xbox360 = 4 frames input delay. If you are practicing on a 360 on a lagless display, you may still drop combos when switching to PS3, and vice versa. If you are using a converter you may be getting 1 or more frames added input delay; you won’t know how much unless it is properly tested.
haha it’s funny because I thought you would be intelligent enough to understand from my post…that those actually are not facts.
ponder about it a little more until you realize that they are not facts about the exact setups at evo, and then get at me fool.
I’d take multiple player accounts (even with playing on CRTVs not many hours ago) over any supposed tests (that were done at an entirely different time, entirely different setup, entirely different tv, entirely different game [if a game at all]) any day. there was definitely lag. unless you had some tests on those exact setups right before being played on, stop being a dumbass and shutup.
If you’re talking player’s word for it, you’re an idiot, sorry. What you’re basically claiming is that people can sense lag more accurately than test with precise equipment. People are incredibly unreliable at measuring things without tools. It’s the same reason morons buy monster cables and then claim their music sounds better, but refuse to accept double-blind test results showing them it’s impossible.
Evo tested both monitors and they have zero input lag. Your declaration that every individual monitor/game needs to be tested separately is dumb. Do you test every aspirin you take beforehand to verify it’s got the proper dosage? Do you test all of your food to make sure it’s safe beforehand? Electronics manufacturing has very little room for variance, at least in terms of something like input lag - signal processing boards aren’t unique little snowflakes with random traits, they have defined ranges of input lag that were independently verified.
Additionally, every PS3 handles video processing the same way. This isn’t some arcane art that people don’t understand. There is a well defined range of what the PS3 will output, and how it handles upscaling/downscaling. There’s not some crazy programming technique that’s going to spaz out the PS3 and make it introduce selectively high input lag on one game - and it’s sure as shit not going to happen on two Capcom fighting games, where they know input lag is an issue.
Now, I will concede that there are potentials for input lag in a game itself, independent of the display being used. But this is a non-issue here, because if it’s inherent to the game itself, it will be present on ALL displays, making the CRT/LCD discussion totally irrelevant.
Finally, you really think that everybody running Evo is a bunch of jackasses who didn’t think about input lag when they switched to LCDs? That they didn’t test them using empirical data?
So keep spouting I’m a dumbass and to shutup, it’s a very compelling argument. Maybe you can call me a poopyhead too, that’ll increase your credibility. You’re a fucking child who thinks if he screams enough it’ll be true. Have fun with your tantrum, little boy.
I hear going two and out causes players to feel lag more than anything else.
Nah, that’s not true. At least one of the Marvel setups had the wrong video setting and used the sprite filter which induces lag. It’s possible that others were screwed up too.
Like Beats, Sergio also noticed the lag. He said to me “this TV is lagging more than the other one”. I looked into it, realized what was wrong, and fixed it.
Umm… I play on a big-ish Samsung HDTV… I don’t have a HDMI cable… but I am using the cable the the Xbox came with.
I’m a new player… but I’m not even sure if it lags :S, feels lagless enough to me, I’m going to have to try dual modding my stick and bringing it over to my friend’s house, he has a PS3 and a tube tv.
On a side note… isn’t EVO held in Japan next year or something? I don’t want to be prejudice… BUT… I’m sure the Japanese will have some plans for getting the perfect set up. Hopefully maybe like a couple of days in your hotel room to get used to the lag or laglessness.
Too bad many of the people who complained were the people who won the tournament.
$299 for a '21.5 monitor is too expensive =S
Lag or no lag, if the Evolution team thought that the monitors were suitable enough for tournament play, then so be it.
However, based on my experience, HDMI lags more than any other connection I have used on a TV/LCD/Monitor. And in a games like the ones showcased at EVO, timing is everything…
But I guess playing out of your comfort zone is what being in a tournament is all about. If these monitors were an excuse for you losing, then you are just not fit to be a champion…
I didn’t hear Daigo complain…
Hey Cicada, just out of curiosity did you ever run a lag test on the Asus VH236H that used to be used at Evo? The descriptions I’ve seen for it indicate that it has 2ms response time but this thread leads me not to believe that.
Also, for all the people persisting about the lag in this thread, get over it. That is like saying “I don’t have cancer, screw your test!” after the doctors have conducted several tests that say you’re wrong.
Just use monitors…
19’’ crt monitors can be found for pretty much 10$ around…