EVO Player's veredict: Keep HDR or go back VST?

Classic Fighting Games SSF2T: HD Remix
41

So go home and sonic boom your family. Go home and be a manly famic boom.

I’d like HDR to stay, at least in theory (since I haven’t had enough practice to gain a true appreciation for the differences). Even if low tier ended up being worse than before, I’d be okay so long as at least top tier and mid tier were closer to converging. Anything to promote character variety. Then again, one of the things I’ve come to like about SFII that I didn’t find in 3S ? correct me if I’m wrong ? is that there’s are a lot of match ups where a higher tier character all of a sudden finds himself at a disadvantage to a lower tier character.

42

HDR is the logical choice. Here’s why:

  • It’s brought in a lot of new players.

  • It’s available on modern consoles.

  • It doesn’t look ancient.

  • It’s even more balanced.

  • It has less overwhelming BS (O.Sagat and N.Vega)

  • It has some new tricks and depth to be explored, which will keep it fresh. Seriously, I don’t think people have really explored the depths of the fake fireball, Chun’s new SBKs, Bison’s fake slide, etc yet and really worked them into their game play.

As far as classic mode goes, it has some logistical problems. First, nobody is ever playing it. Sure, if Evo used it some of the SRK crowd would play it. But what about all the new players that started their SF2 experience with HF and HDR on XBL. Do you really see them switching to classic mode? A lot of them probably won’t. Finally, would the die-hard ST people even be happy with playing ST with new art?

IMHO, CigarBob had the right idea. He brought his arcade cab so people could still play ST in a side tournament the way that game was meant to be played - on arcade. Leave the console tournaments to the new console games.

Speaking of playing games the way they were meant to be played, I’d love to see HDR change to be played in wide-screen mode next year. As I predicted, the gameplay didn’t feel any different in 4:3 mode. It just looked lame. Also, switching to XBox would be nice. The way the PS3 deals with controller ports and configuration sucks ass.

43

I can only speak for myself, but I’d be fine with that. The new art is only glaringly bad in a few cases, and it doesn’t change the game much for me.

But aside from that, I do think HDR is probably the smarter choice, even if I feel ST is the better game.

44

Just do what SweetJohnnyV says. Most practical, reasonable and everyone wins.

End of discussion.

45

Very well said bro

46

:tup::tup:

This. Everyone has an entire year to readjust to playing in 16:9 mode. Just make EVO set the official rules now so that the regional tournaments adopt the same standard and everyone can get used to them.

Half of the people here played on 4:3 mode and the other half played 16:9 mode when HDR came out. Wiz even made the official mode 16:9 for EVO but then changed the video mode to 4:3 only weeks before EVO.

16:9 :rock:

47

WORD!!! I couldn’t possibly agree more. The variety was really refreshing. It was the first year for a new game so I’m sure things will tighten up in a year if it’s still around.
Diago getting peaced out early was a shocker but this happened due to his unfamiliarity with the game, wierd speed relative to ST, slight lag on the stage TV (he played his first game of HDR on the big screen), and he counter picked himself by picking Guile two times against Claw. He made it pretty far actually, but Graham beasted on him, getting perfected one round by Graham in a Ryu vs Boxer match.
HDR should remain the game unless it’s completely cast aside in the next year and ST makes some kind of 3s-like comeback.

-wes

48

Sony is one of the main sponsors of Evo, so don’t expect 360s anytime soon. =/

Otherwise, I totally agree with keeping Remix. I prefer playing original ST but not by that much, and Remix is probably better to watch at high level.

49

Looks like I’ll be the oddball, but I’ll go out on a limb anyway and say that the game needs to be tweaked before being accepted as the ST replacement.

Tweaks??

We all know how fast paced this game is. And I know those of you who play a lot of motion based characters can agree that there is something funky going on with the inputs and the overlapping of moves…often leading to unintended specials coming out. The inputs need to be rock solid and consistent…that means no weird shit happening during complicated executions. Yes, I know the frame entry has been expanded to the max and I am not saying it’s not a good thing but there is something going on in there that’s causing this to happen…I don’t know if that is the cause of it or not(the expanded input window) but it needs to be addressed.

I really like HDR, and if it can be refined further I would really like to see it happen. And when I say “refined” I mean the universal stuff(inputs, glitches, etc).

As for fixing the characters, I still think Cammy and Fei need to be re-examined. At the very least give Cammy back her strong punch priority and give Fei back his old short flame kick recovery.

50

To rectify the problems with the new odd command inputs and gigantic input windows you’d have to completely revert them back to what they were in ST. Unfortunately we are stuck with them.

If you really want proper input windows and commands just play classic mode. :arazz:

Who has glitches other than T.Hawk in HDR? Hawk has command input issues with his SUPER and there is a reversal bug with his DP as well. I seem to recall something with Boxer’s TAP and that’s about it.

51

Lets organize how I view the SF2 scene into proportional groups:

Groups [A,B,C,D,E] like Arcade ST better than * SF2 game on console.
Group [F] truly accepts console ST as a replacement for Arcade ST.

Therefore groups [A-F] are not content with SFHD, but for different reasons.

Because of SFHD, you now also have player groups G,H,I,J,K,L,M,N (SFHD paid registrations were 140 in 2008, 330 in 2009 up about 140%).

The mistake is to assume that all players [A-F] are happier with console ST which would make a pretty even split, in reality, only players in group F are happier to any noticable degree, I think we are grossly overstating the difference that Classic ST would make over SFHD to Arcade ST players.

Many of the top players do not play at 100% efficency on any console setup. Japan players do not play high level matches on console. Why do you think we love Cigarbob’s setup and many top ST players still use Happ Sticks? Why isn’t it a DC ST setup, or a SFHD Classic setup with Japanese sticks? It’s obviously still not the same for many players. The only reasonable option is to move forward with SFHD, which will also allow the ST players use their optimal setup wherever possible.

The issues with SFHD should not really keep it from being played at a top level. We did not wait for Capcom to perfect console ST before switching over to it, there was just a 1000 man SF4 tournament without seeing all of the lifebar and glitching with special moves, i’m pretty sure that we can deal with this… for now.

The correct play IMO is to say that we are definately playing this game for as long as possible, and Capcom knows 12 months in advance what needs to be done, that we (SF2 players) are going to try to get 1000 entries for the game, maybe 50k on the stream in 2010, and that Capcom needs to make things right for those people, they need to get the top SFHD players and Seth and Sirlin in the room and address the universally agreed on issues which include: button config resetting, specials not coming out, etc…

We need to say that SFHD will be displayed, and they can choose whether it’s displayed as a refined piece of software and a statement of their committment to the players, or whether it’s an example of leaving these issues on the table for an entire year. I think they will make the right choice if we do our part.

I also need cigarbob to leave his setup in vegas and stop taking it home…

52

Dictator will kick the wrong direction sometimes during the st.Short portion his cross-up TOD.
Sometimes it still hits, sometimes it misses and breaks the combo.

53

Says who???

Last I remember the game can be tweaked. The patch is proof of that.

Oh geez

http://www.houston-imports.com/forums/images/smilies/facepalm.gif

Did I not say that the windows may or may not be the problem?? Personally I like the idea of consistent input windows and it sounds good on paper but like I said there are some really oddball things going.

I’ll post another example for you guys to try out and tell me whether or not I am crazy.

**Go into HDR training mode. Choose Fei Long and then Balrog as the dummy.
Set your dummy up to never block and have supers set to infinite. Chunk him(rog) in the corner practice doing this particular wake up combo as Rog gets up from a fall

MEATY STANDING FIERCE(and i mean super early…like his elbow is hitting rog)
LOW SHORT x SUPER

TRY IT AT LEAST TEN TIMES AND TELL ME WHAT RANDOM STUFF YOU GET.**

I rest my case.

EDIT:
OH AND ALSO TRY MEATY STANDING FIERCE - DELAY FOR A SPLIT SECOND - THEN DO LOW MED KICK INTO SUPER.

54

For whatever reason in HDR, I get a BUNCH of random backwards moves. In VST I’ve gotten backwards moves only a handful of times. Ive had this problem occur with nearly everyone. Hawk, Rog, Dict, Sagat, Ken, Honda to name some off the top of my head.

55

Me too, exactly this.It happens me all the time with Dictator, and it kills me every time. Good jump ins are hard to get, i hate them being wasted cos of bugs like that.

I don’t know if you noticed last night, but i got 2 backwards moves in a row against you in one of our matches:lame:.

I crossed you up with dictator’s MK and then planned to do a 2X st.MK poke string into fake slide or crusher or whatever, and the first stMK came out pointing the wrong way, like i didn’t turn after the crossup, and for the second stMK i was suddenly on the OTHER side of you facing the wrong way, and whiffed that one as well. I got 2 kicks, one on either side facing away from you instead of towards you, and then i think you mauled me with boxer for making a mistake and i lost the round.

I was like “wait…WTF just happened??”

56

I really wish that Capcom would give HDR a very serious, in-depth, engine-fixing patch. I know the chances of this happening are extremely low, though, because from a business standpoint they’d be throwing a lot of money at almost nothing.

Did the patch from a few months ago remove the bug where you can use a controller to keep a charge using the analog stick and still walk around with the d-pad?

57

Search is your friend.

But yes it did.

58

I have the same problem. I always assumed it was related to the speed difference. HDR does run a bit slower than Arcade ST, so it makes sense that the frames where a move would come out backward might be there longer.

59

I hope they don’t get rid of HDR I want to play that and SFIV and KOFXII next year…

60

It’s because of how the ST engine handles cross ups. I don’t think it’s a bug it’s just how the wacky ST engine works. This makes cross ups and other tactics possible though. So getting rid of the ‘my normal came out wrong’ would eliminate a lot of other things as well from what I can tell.

If you do a cross up from the air and then buffer a normal before the game registers you as being on the opposite side…then your normal will come out seemingly backwards. It’s actually not backwards because you are performing it from the side that you are still crossing up from. I’m not sure if it requires first frame timing once you switch sides but it’s a rare occasion and I’m not convinced that HDR has programming issues that make this occurrence more frequent.

It’s like when [media=youtube]pN5JjotDMAg&#t=1m21s"]Blanka hops over someone or Ken does crazy legs through someone as they are getting up and their reversal comes out on the wrong side. It’s actually coming out on the correct side because the reversal move has been entered from the direction that the person is still facing before the cross up is completed. Combo videos are [URL=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5m6C38nfPM&#t=1m06s”[/media] with this stuff as well.

New inputs are an issue though because the inputs are too lenient and the windows are too large. If the window for a dragon punch was a standard nine frames and not fifteen it would make a big difference just as if hands required four presses and not three. Things like hands and legs and electricity come out more often than before when you want normals because they require less presses. And walking up and doing a fireball will sometimes result in an SRK because of the new massive input window for dragon punches. I don’t see these as totally game breaking but they can force people to play HDR differently than ST for reasons unintended.