Evil Ryu version 2013 wish list

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
141

Please don’t make me say what I didn’t. I never wanted to make it hits everytimes everything or whatever, I just talked about a bigger window for the 2 hits. I also said a better damage repartition in my previous post. Read it again please.

About gouki… whatever dude, if you just want to point out the little thing I may be wrong about and don’t say a word about 99% of my post, you should start a political career :p. In short : multi hits fadc-able, yeah that sure is terrible ; shakunetsu juggle + demon flip set up from a trade, that’s terrible too man, my bad. The range isn’t better than eryu but it’s still really good.
Seth (particulary him) and gouki shoryukens are overall way better, if you don’t think so we better stop posting because it’ll never end.

Question for you sir : why on earth should evil ryu dp be worse than ryu’s ? he already has a less good fireball game, less life and stun.

142

What I plan to post:

HK Axe kick given overhead properties total frame count unchanged but start up changed to 25f and hit stun decreased on block (-2)
LK Axe kick hit stun increased so it is now +2 on hit -5 on block, LK Axe Kick > FADC > cr.MP/cs.HP is now possible

cr.HK total frame count unchanged but start up changed from 7f to 5f making it -14 on block

or

cr.HK total frame count reduced by 4 start up remains 7f recovery is -7f on block

143

I don’t think it is. I AA fine with both.

144

I think Evil Ryu has better AAs overall than Ryu.

145

I actually agree with this. Their MP DP’s are the same. Evil Ryu’s HP DP is actually a little better as it has 5 frames of invincibility and hitting it deep nets you the same 160 damage as Ryu’s fierce DP. It should also be taken into consideration that his fierce DP can still be FADC’d for more damage where as Ryu’s can not be so he loses some damage going to his MP DP(to FADC into Ultra) for anti air purposes. Eryu’s far round house starts up a little faster and has the same hit box now I believe. And although Ryu’s cr. fierce is a couple frames faster it doesn’t cover cross ups like Eryu’s does.

As for your suggested changes, they’re almost the same as mine adjusted changes. I also wanted the HK axe kick to start up in 25 frames although I think it should only be zero on block since that’s still extremely slow. Although I want LK axe kick to be -5 on block, I think it should stay +1 on hit or +3 on hit after FADC.

As for his sweep, I’d prefer for it to be sped up to only 6 and stay -11 on block although having the same exact sweep frame data as Ryu is very enticing. But I think it balances out better this way and actually compliments his other tools better which I don’t mind explaining if you want to hear it(I’ve been doing a lot of theory fighting on this).

The only other change I’m going to ask for is for close fierce to be a 4 frame start up. Evil Ryu already has a assortment of 1 frame links he has to deal with, and that’s in addition to his low health so missing any of these links can be really brutal for him. This change will just help relieve some of that pressure so he can at least do a jab hit confirm into close fierce without it being so tight of a link. But it’s close fierce so we won’t be able to mash jab into it as that will cause too much push back so we’re not getting a easy hit confirm here. It’s still off only a single jab in most situations.

146

Close fierce being 4 frames would make mk axe kick loop a bunch of times, if not infinitely. That would be no good.

147

Im not at home right now so I can’t test it but are you sure close fierce will activate after mk axe kick? I thought it would be far fierce from that range.

148

You’re right, far fierce does come out after mk axe kick

149

So if they make cr.HK 6 frames does that mean MK AXE > cr.LK > fs.LP > cr.HK will work on everyone?

150

Yes, but I’m crossing my fingers for a 3 frame far jab so we can just do a 2 frame far jab into sweep for a hard knockdown.

151

the s.LP is +5 on hit, I think the link wont work against everybody even with a 6f sweep, the s.LP still gonna need to hit meaty to the sweep to connect.

152

I forgot to mention that I also want the far jab to be +6 on hit so you can link into sweep. What I didn’t think about is the fact that this would give him a new character specific combo where he can loop MK axe kick a 2nd time. But no more as it will cause too much push back after that. It will only work on a few characters, so it’s not a threat against the vast majority of the cast. Difference in damage and stun is 406/645 against 373/535 against most characters after linking a cr. MP after MK axe kick. Like I said, it will only work on a few characters so I don’t know if that’s too big of a deal that it shouldn’t be given to him or not.

153

cr.short
-increase frame advantage on block from -1 > 0.
-increase frame advantage on hit from +2 > +3
(Just wanna make him feel a little more fluid and again wishful thinking.)

st.jab
-decrease startup from 4 > 3 frames.
(I like the idea Rice Eater gave with the st.jab. But I actually feel like this is wishful thinking.)

Low forward
-lower hurtbox
(Around the head area similar to Akuma. I know it’s wishful thinking but I wanna be able to go under fireballs or Balrog dash punches. Maybe even use it to lower my hitbox for an AA Raging Demon? Ah w/e! Sounds really godlike to combine that and the range)

Sweep
-Buff hitbox to go as far as the low forward
(maybe wishful thinking, but if the startup is ass, recovery is ass, at least give it good range lol)

-Decrease start up from 7 > 6
( I don’t think it’s a bad idea to decrease the start up. But being able to combo sweep on most characters seems a little overboard but having better footsie options would be nice.)

fst.Fierce
-Decrease start up from 7 > 6
(It’s already a very good normal in itself, but I want it to be better. More wishful thinking)

Hopkick
-adjust hitbox to hit after going over certain lows
(tired of it wiffing sometimes!)

-adjust EX tattsu follow up to hit properly on Balrog or sometimes going over various lows (such as cody’s cr.short) makes it hit weird.
(Even though most Balrogs jab me out of it, in the corner you can’t follow up with medium axe kick. Sometimes he flies the other way completely IDK.)

-Make hop kick a little safer if you don’t cancel it -2 > -1 on block
(kinda overboard but it’s just more wishful thinking)

EX Axe Kick
I know Rice Eater said full invincibility but nerf damage. However,I would much rather…

-add lower body invincibility so the move doesn’t get beat out by mashed lows.
(I also kind of want the hitbox to not get tapped by cr.jabs if that’s possible? O.o)

-Air tattsu
-All versions give better positioning.
(I’m not asking for a vortex, I just want to be rewarded a little bit for using it lol. Just put them a little closer to me and I’m good!)

Don’t crucify me. I’m just throwing some stuff out there. O.o

154

I think you might be on to something here. 5 frame sweep is a bit overboard(something I said I wanted), with the knockdown and combos into knockdown…but speeding up st.hp would give him a quicker footsies option for punishing whiffs, but it wouldn’t lead to knockdowns.

155

I think by giving him a slight speed up will improve him significantly. I feel like if you buff him too much like more combos into sweep, you’ll be giving him too much. Damage vs options won’t even out well imo.

156

I don’t feel that the combo into sweep would be too much. It would be a big help as it gives him a knockdown game against most of the cast, but that’s primarily for safe jumps and ambiguous jump ins at best. I just feel like he’s not getting rewarded enough for all his efforts as he has no knockdown pressure off of any of his moves that he can actually use. His play style is definitely closer to Ryu than Akuma, but I really don’t like how they made him weak in the areas that he’s suppose to fight everybody in.

I feel like speeding up st. HP will not do anything for this character. It will be just like all the minor buffs he got from AE to AE 2012 that didn’t matter much in the end. What are your thoughts on why that would be too good of a buff?

As for you suggestion about EX axe kick, that’s actually a much better one than mine. The words just couldn’t come to me when I was writing it, but that’s more in line with what I wanted rather than what I wrote.

157

I understand working to get the knockdown is rough, but I feel like the fact Evil Ryu’s damage is so high, that it balances out the knockdown opportunities. When he plays footsies he has potential to do a lot of damage with if he has 2 bars and you have good confirms or reads. But I feel like he has a good advantage at certain ranges and an extreme disadvantage at a certain ranges that some characters just straight up beat him out. By buffing some of the start up on his longer ranged normals, I was hoping to potentially give him slightly more tools at the range where he is at an extreme disadvantage. While even with my suggestions it still seems poor at those ranges, the start up might give him more potential to keep enemies at the range he wants them at. The fact that he has a invincible 3 frame DP, and a fireball may supplement the fact he may not even need these tools, but those are huge risks that I feel like he should not always be in.

The Fst.fierce start up buff was just being able to supplement that general fact. Just to be able to throw it out there with the 7 frame start up is great. Give it the 6 frame start up instead, may give slightly more incentive to throw it out a little bit more. I also feel like the start up might make it a more viable anti air especially against dive kicks. By making it faster, it should give it almost (if not) all the utility it gives Akuma WITH the CH-knockdown potential.

But I understand where you’re coming from though. A lot of the random start up changes I suggested doesn’t seem to add too much to the character’s overall strategy.

158

Warning: Incoming wall of text

Lilevil, I’ve seen your play and respect you, I know for sure I’m no where near as good of a Evil Ryu player(or overall player) as you. So I don’t want to make it seem like I know more about the character than you, but I really feel like he’s imbalanced as he is right now. He can do a lot of damage but that combo doesn’t normally happen unless you punish someone’s mistake or have two bars to confirm off a low forward. If his whole game plan is based around hit confirming that low forward into more damage than the cons heavily outweigh the pro IMO. The con being that you need two bars and the start up is 7f compared to the pro being that the low forward has great reach and hit stun. It doesn’t balance out IMO.

This wouldn’t be a issue if he was stronger in other areas, but he’s not. He’s low health/stun, no knockdown game, shitty teleport, shitty shaku, a terrible sweep, and more. He has no vortex at all so he’s not going to instantly stun anyone unless they’re free to frame traps after a sweep. Basically he’s a zoner/footsie character. His zoning is on par with Ryu’s, but his footsies are much worse with a much slower sweep and low forward, which is why Ryu(and other footsie characters) rapes him when he’s in his low forward range. If this is who he is as a character and how he’s designed to fight everybody then shouldn’t he be better in that aspect instead of being somewhat handicapped?

Besides minor buffs, I think he should get 1 out of these 2 major buffs. Either speed up the sweep or the low forward to 6 frames. Earlier I talked about his low forward and explained my case on that. If Capcom doesn’t want him to have a faster sweep that also gives him the ability to combo into it then he should have a faster low forward as his main strategy is based around this move. It would already be balanced out IMO by the fact that he needs two bars to hit confirm into more damage(which is pretty expensive) and since it’s 6f instead of 5f he won’t be able to land easy hit confirms into it from jab so those two factors already prevent it from being too good. I’d prefer the buff to his sweep, but if this is how Capcom wants him to be played then low forward should be buffed so he has a fighting chance against most of the cast.

I’ve tried to explain my case very thoroughly and haven’t heard a good rebuttal yet. Everything I read from the rebalance thread just consisted of “he could be too good” or “we don’t want another combo sweep character” without any reasoning to back it up. Just that he might secretly be top tier and we just don’t know it yet. Hopefully I don’t come off as one of those crazies that’s simply asking for too much but I feel like I’ve examined this character very closely and the changes I’ve asked for made sense in helping this character and not creating a imbalance.

One more thing, I don’t think Evil Ryu’s far fierce has the same hit box as Akuma’s. I’ve tried using it as a anti air and it doesn’t work the same. I’ve tested it in the training mode against some characters. And at the ranges where Akuma flat out wins, Evil Ryu will trade or get stuffed completely. So in order to match Akuma’s far fierce, he would not only need the faster start up, but also a adjusted hit box.

159

I agree with you here, but I think they should to fix that with another things stead of giving him a faster cHK or cMK. Improving its meter gain is one of the things taht could to help. What that Id really like to see a new move that would be similar to the cl.LK but that can be used anywhere, it would to cover the range E.R. gets raped by anyone (that range around Ryu’s c.MK range). C.HK wont help that much imo because the combo starter will be the same, the risks are going to be the same, etc etc. And c.MK will make any retarded able to use the character. I dont think a 6f c.MK would to make him plain brocken, but his whole gameplay would become a c.mk spamming festival.

160

Increasing meter gain is a little overboard actually lol. His main pressure tools when you do manage to get in are a bunch of mediums and fierce majority of the time lol. 6 frame low forward isn’t a bad idea. It doesn’t turn Evil Ryu into a low forward spamming fest though. There are still many other drawbacks to actually using too much and the slight frame difference helps make it more accessible, but he still has to deal with a lot of other things.

I was thinking it over today and I took into consideration of trying to figure out what kind of buff he needs and for me personally at least, I just want very minor tweaks to the character. But I suppose everybody is different. I just don’t know what else I would want though while maintaining balance.