I can’t help but feel if his c.hk was on par with the speed of Akuma’s (and recovery) it might tip the balance scale too much. Perhaps if they were to go this route, it would make sense to speed up the start-up, retain the active frames, but shift the gained start-up frame(s) onto the recovery. i.e. it’s the same overall in terms of frame count, it just recovers that slight bit slower. This might be a reasonable buff, as it would afford him a nice whiff punish option for footsies, but ask that E.Ryu players use it sensibly. I’m new to the character and only dabbling, but I must admit that his sweep is so slow that it’s borderline useless in many situations, unless I’m missing something?
This is my beef with his character design. He’s low health/stun and although has a lot of tools, most of them generally go unused as they’re not that good. Hop kick, shaku, teleport, and others all have major flaws where the con outweighs the pro. Even his signature move, the axe kicks, are pretty much useless outside of combos. The way he’s designed, we have to play him as a footsie and zoning character. His zoning is OK, but his footsies are very weak. He doesn’t have get in moves and his far reaching normals are very slow. His walk speed is better than average, but doesn’t make up for his weaknesses. On top of that he has no knockdown game whatsoever with weak mix ups overall even when he gets the opportunity.
And that combo that people love to talk about, you don’t see it unless Evil Ryu has 2 bars or he’s punishing someone for whiffing a DP. Two bars is expensive and has to be hit confirmed off the slow low forward. Punishing stuff that’s really negative on whiff or block isn’t something you can rely on. So basically that’s why I want better tools. A 6 frame sweep helps him in the footsie battle and gives him some combos into a hard knockdown. He has no vortex behind that sweep so unless people are free to counter hit set ups, they’re not going to eat two axe kick combos and die. And that’s pretty much the only major buff I’d like to see him get. Everything else is pretty minor and won’t be too significant like all the small changes he got from AE to AE 2012.
When it’s Evil Ryu week I plan to make a longer post hopefully trying to get through to Capcom about how strongly I feel about this. I’ve come across plenty of people who thinks he shouldn’t get this because it may make him too good or he simply doesn’t deserve it. I feel like most of these guys don’t have a good reason, they simply fear the unknown. If they feel they can make a better point then let them say so. But this is the direction I’m going with next week when they make a Evil Ryu thread. This could be it for SF4, and I want this character to be more viable when it’s all said and done.
Rice_eater, Eryu can do the lk.axe kick combo from a far.mp. It is important because you seems to think that you can’t combo the lk at all but it is not true. Plus when you look at the actives frames of this move, it’s definitivly not useless, you can rely on this 2in1 a lot against some characters with high moves and specials.
If you want to buff him a clever way you just have to increase the hitbox of this normal to make it hits every single crouching characters because right now, you indeed can’t combo into lk.AK if some characters are crouched.
If you do this and think about what I wrote earlier (less push back on hit with this damn light axe kick), Eryu would be a deadlier character with just this small little buff.
I never said you couldn’t combo into it. All I said is that it’s useless outside of FADC combos. The only time you would use it is if your opponent is crouching and the damage and stun gain from jab jab st. strong LK axe kick is very minimal compared to something like jab jab SRK which at least grants you a knockdown. Outside of FADC combos, it’s very risky to use. It’s not a true block string with st. MP or cr. MK, so you can be reversal’d inbetween the special cancel. And even if your opponent blocks it, they have plenty of time to punish you since you’re -7 on block. Making it safer at least grants it some use as a pressure tool, although it’s still very risky to use.
As for increasing the hit box of st. MP. That won’t solve his current problems. Like I said, he’s a no gimmicks character. If you want damage, either you throw fireballs or walk up to footsie range and play that game. Stand MP isn’t going to have the reach to compete with something like Ryu’s cr. MK or Bison’s st. MK. All that buff would do is allow him to do a combo against everybody when he’s already in and that’s if you’re confident with your 1 frame links. And like I said, it really only makes a difference if you have 2 bars to FADC for more damage. Considering the fact that it takes 2 bars, this buff won’t be much of a difference maker.
I cant see a good reason for all taht fuss about a 6f sweep for footsies purposes. It have crappy followup potential, its a bit unsafe on block and its hella unsafe on whiff. The thing is, the only reason you would to use it on footsies is to punish something that is -6, otherwise you should be going with c.mk. Which opponents whose are bad matchups vs E.R. have moves that are -6 on block or whiff and cant be punished with a combo? I cant see why you guys want that 6f sweep for footsies at all, theres a lot of things that are more important for E.R. than that.
Id rather see MK AK beeing -1f on block, that would to help him against some graplers a bit w/o causing new problems for another chars.
To change both Ryu and E.R.'s his f.LP startup to 3f and 4 active frames while decreasing its hurtboxes horizontally by a couple of pixels would to help them a lot against certain characters, specially against feilong, who is one of theirs worse opponent. It could to help against Akuma’s f.HK aswell, but that move would have to take some tweaks itself, its hitboxes and hurtboxes are completely retarded the way it is right now.
I’m not talking about punishing stuff on block, I’m talking about walking in and out of your opponents footsie range for stuff like whiff punishing or hitting them before they hit you, that’s it. The 7f low forward and sweep doesn’t compete that well against characters like Ryu, Rose, or Akuma for example. With a faster sweep not only can he compete better in that area, he gains a new combo into hard knockdown. He can’t vortex, but the sweep gives him safe jumps(very easy with a dive kick rather than waiting a few frames with a normal jump in) and ambiguous jump ins at least. So he finally has somewhat of a knockdown game compared to right now where it doesn’t exist unless you have two bars to burn to FADC his SRK into a heavy/medium axe kick.
How often does your c.mk get stuffed becuase it’s to slow? Or how often do you just not push a button because you know it’d be to slow? Also, how can you say any untechable knockdown has crappy followup potential? So what if it doesn’t give you perfect spacing every time you hit with it, it’s still untechable. Learn how to safe jump off it and time meaties off it. Tatsu -> sweep has some legit setups off it in the matches you can use it…but even without setups, it’s still untechable.
Totally agree. His sweep is the biggest weakness for a zoning based character. If Capcom is afraid that buffing the sweep turns him into a akuma like vortex char, what about changing its range or even speeding up his walk speed even more?
His cr. mk is fine, doesn’t have to change at all.
I had a thought about his teleport. I think it should become more of an offense based teleport. I use his kick teleport alot more in offensive situations to bait out ultra’s and mash srk’s. Increasing its speed or decreasing the recovery frames would make it even more of an offensive tool.
So even if you teleport away from your opponent to bait out something, you’ll still be safe and still in range to keep applying pressure.
Also, it can even be used properly after for example air resetting after tatsu making its final position more ambigious. Just a random thought.
His hop kick tatsu should also be improved. Either make it more easier to hitconfirm, or make the follow up tatsu safe. (Maybe ex because it burns precious meter?).
Would also be nice if the follow up ex tatsu would “suck” the opponent in a bit more. Now doing a hopkick ex tatsu from afar on a crouching char makes it whiff on hit and thus unsafe.
What I said is that on any situation other than to punish something that is -6, the c.mk should to be your choise. I will keep using the c.mk when I bait a move even if the sweep becomes a 6f move. I have no problems punishing whiffed pokes from the chars you said. Obviously a 6f move would be better to use than a 7f move and all, but he have bigger needs than that.
To decrease its startup will to serve only to get you guys baited to death. As I said, a 6f sweep wouldnt hurt, but he doesnt really needes that, theres other things he really needs and all I see in this forum is people talking about a 6f sweep.
Rarely. It usually happens when I try to use the c.mk from a range where I should be using s.MK, s.MP or c.MP. The c.mk’s range is bigger than most of the other pokes in the game, so you will only to get stuffed by it if you are using it at a wrong range or the opponent is throwing their pokes out in antecipation, to catch your c.MK, and thats exactly what you want, because you want to bait it. And thats why people doesnt throw pokes in antecipation when they play with me and thats why my c.mk doesnt gets stuffed too often.
A hard knockdown is aways welcome, but its pressure potencial is weak compared to other characters’s hard knockdowns in the game. You gonna be hitting the sweep from the tip of his foot, then all you gonna get from there is a frontal jump or a crossup tatsu. And the frontal jump will be hard to be done in a safe way, you will have to wait between 1to 3 frames to jump, if you do it too early your OS will come out and you will get punished, if you do it too late you may eat a reversal. Compared to other characters, E.R. sweep’s hard knockdown isnt any wonderfull. Plus that, Evil Ryu can to finish his bnb with a extremely good hard knockdown. He doesnt lacks a 6f sweep for footsies purposes, he also doesnt needs it to compensate for the lack of hard knockdown potencial.
I guess we’re just going to have to agree to disagree then since neither of us are going to get through to each other. If you feel strongly about your points then state your case at the Capcom Unity boards as that is what I’m going to do and we’ll see what they eventually decide to do.
About the sweep, I was thinking about a better hitbox. Really often you can’t punish somebody with your cr.mk even tho it goes really far, but also you can’t do an OS against good backdashers because of that crappy sweep -you even can be punished if you do that os and the sweep doesn’t connect- If you look at the hitbox of this move it doesn’t reach the foot at all.
Ken can whiff punishes with his sweep, gouki can fish with it (his sweep is broken btw), ryu can, rose can, chun li can -the list conitnues forever- but if evil ryu has a long sweep he is broken ?!
It’s really something I don’t understand, why exactly that sweep should be useless in a situation where the cr.mk already is ? I mean, something is too far away for your cr.mk, then the cr.hk punishes it… it’s so obvious in my head that I don’t understand why it is not like that. The sweep is slower, not special cancelable, a lot more unsafe than any other normals… it’s a god damn sweep ! give us a good sweep just like all shotos.
I would love to have a better hitbox on his cr.mp too, this thing isn’t good at all either. For instance, if you want to press an opponent after a lk axe on hit (0) or a hk axe on block (+1)… well you just can’t. You don’t have a move fast enough to keep your advantage. The lp doesn’t connect, the mp doesn’t connect either and the others options are way too slow. That’s why I would like to have or a better hitbox on the cr.mp, or less pushback on all the axekick (hit and block).
I’d prefer to have less pushback on all axekick who doesn’t knockdown, this move is eryu’s signature.
Oh btw, I would love to have a better mp.shoryu and what I mean is : that thing should hits the damn two hits a lot more often. Against a lot of characters, even with a late shoryuken (to have the damn two hits in reward) it just hits once and does 30 hp… how idiot is that ? we already have few health, if when someone jump on us he just get 30hp off… well he will keep jumping like a dumb (sakura, yang, cody, Dudley, etc). If you punish a jump in the reward shouldn’t be 1/3 of the time a trade and another 1/3 one little hit.
What do you guys think about that ?
his LK axe kick is +1 on hit. After it you can to kara throw the opponent if he doesnt walks back (usually hes crouch blocking). Then he will have to guess if youre going to hit him or throw him. The real problem is that once the opponent is at -1, he knows that if he keep spamming crouching jab, hes going to stop the pression unless the Evil Ryu is a crazy shoryuken happy bastard. The only move that will to give E.R. some advantage is a c.LP, but it wont be followed by anything. That could be solved making the LK AK +2 on hit. If you increase the c.mp’s range you gonna change a lot of others things in the game, its going to have a lot of implications. With the AK being +2, a c.mp will be a counter hit if the opponent mashes anything.
Not every character has 3f moves though.
His AA dp is as good as the other shotos. Stop trying to dp those jump ins your talking about. Normal Ryu has to use s.hk on those, too…
And take a counter hit ? look at sakura’s jump hp or dudley jump hk hitbox… they beat ryu’s hk clean most of the time or it trades. Oh btw if it trades, no need to tell you how horrible it is for your low life - I don’t even want to talk about a counter hit : you just lost 1/4 of your life for free-
Ryu has more life, a better damage repartition on his shoryu, a better hp shoryu, a better air tatsu, a better super, more stun etc. Don’t compare ryu with evil ryu please, they don’t have to be play the same at all.
Anyway, against dive kicker you have to do the shoryuken as fast as possible, but if the dude did a late dive kick or a jump hp/hk he trades or just take the second hit which is 30… I don’t ask for more invincibility, I would like the 2 hits to actually hit or another damage repartition so the second hit does more damage.
Right now, it’s not scary enough to jump on Eryu at a certain distance and it is a problem.
You’re being dumb. I’m getting really tired of seeing suggestions that don’t make sense. “I suck at anit-air, so Capcom has gotta make my dp overpowered!” A dp that hits twice even if you didn’t do it deep? You realize that’s something that NO character in SF4 has, right? If you AA with a special to early, you lose damage. That is the game. Eryu will not be an exception to this.
These suggestions are supposed to fix Eryu as a character…not you as a player.
Protip: In a fighting game, if your AA is bad from a certain range, you don’t stand at that range.
And what about cammy ? her dragon does even more damage when it’s not deep ! I want the same dragon as cammy ! (trolling there, calm down…).
Dude, you don’t understand what I mean. I don’t ask to have seth’s dragon, I would like to have the same as ryu -I’m not talking about the hp one- with another damage repartition at least : 80-50. You think it is normal for a character with really low life to have a “bad” defense as it is right now ? look at seth or gouki, they have a terrible life but awesome defensive moves : multi hit fadc shoryu, a great teleport, better range on theirs dp too AND a full juggle when it trades. They have and the offensives and the defensives moves to compensate their life.
How is this dumb to have a better damage repartition ? his shoryu isn’t as good as ryu, make it as good as his.
Changing damage isn’t that dumb. Making the dp hit twice for full damage against everything is dumb, and is basically what you asked for in your first post. Now you’re bringing up Akuma’s dp? That thing is horrible for defense. It DOES NOT have more range than eryu’s. Think a little bit before you post.