Evil Ryu version 2013 wish list

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
101

Forward throw, jump for the crossup. There, you have a good 50/50 setup that combos on most characters that’s hard to react to, that dive kick comes down fast and you have a very short split second to confirm if he’s going for X-up or fake.

You’re misunderstanding. The problem is that Ryu’s c.MK’s active frames lower his hitbox a lot. Ryu uses this to do things like get under crossups or burn kicks. The hop is fine, Ryu’s low forward is the problem.

And you still have options in that situation. Just throw them, light attack, SRK if you’re ballsy, kara-cancel the damn thing into Demon to make him pay for using good, reliable pokes…

Yes it does, it gives you a safe attempt at a combo, especially in the corner and it can set up for unblockable… it’s SAFE and it’s NOT a lousy position. It’s not rushdown positioning, but E Ryu also has an identical fireball to Ryu and that’s great. That’s perfect for a zoning/footsie situation.

Point still stands that you’re using Ultras to try and counter footsies and using U2 to counter them so much that it’s become a problems shows that’s something off with you game. Combo into the Ultra or use it as a punish like everyone else does with theirs, have some kind of setup.

102

Those meaty dive kicks are actually very easy to block. It’s got the same weakness all the slow dive kicks have. Dive kick or crossup, in the same situation, would hit at different times. So you just have to block for the dive kick, then switch your block at the last second, when the crossup will be hitting. There’s no reacting to it at all.

Dive kicks don’t work at all against anyone I play regularly anymore. I can only use them for pressure. If I want it to hit, it’s got to be an ambiguous crossup. Although I can still sneak in a backthrow -> dash -> dive kick against them once in a while for some reason. Probably cuz the range is so close and it’s at the min. height.

103

I think a big issue with Evil Ryu’s dive kick is that he have combos that put him in position to use it. Cammy is in position after a spiral arrow, Yun is in position after a up kick, Seth is in position after a DP. What about Evil Ryu? His 2 best options are HK axe kick, and EX axe kick. With both of these moves your opponent can take a breather and observe whether you’re going to go for it or not. I think the other characters land it more often because they can keep up the pressure after ending combos with a certain special move and their opponents quick get up leaving them less time to think, react, or simply focus. That’s my theory behind it anyways.

The other problem is that these moves are not practical in combos. HK axe kick requires you to combo from cl. MP and you have to be very close for that move to come out EX axe kick requires meter and for you to combo from fierce or cl. MP, again you have to be very close to your opponent. And both options means your giving up a lot more damage to get a hard knockdown.

To the guy who suggested that LK axe kick be a soft knockdown. I would be completely down for that. The positioning is perfect and we can combo from st. MP so we can confirm off a couple light attacks before committing. I’d trade the stun and FADC combos for that anyday.

104

I don’t know about lk axekick knocking down. I still find uses for lk axekick FADC when fb fadc close fierce would be out of range.

Maybe if air tatsu on hit gave better positioning, or allowed a small juggle midscreen. Or just give it 100 stun. I was looking for crossup tatsu setups and I was underwhelmed by the risk/reward.

105

Those setups aren’t that great. In a mid-high level match, those won’t hit. It’s a safe way to continue pressure, so you’ll see them use those setups, but you won’t see them hit. It’s not a mixup. Just use the right timing and you’ll block either option. Well, actually…Yun can crossup with the dive kick after up kick, can’t he? Won’t work for that, but cammy and seth, for sure.

106

I see a lot of Seth’s land dive kick after a DP, and Cammy’s land it enough to make it viable IMO. The main point is to get your opponent in that position. When they get knocked down like that, they may not be as focused as they should be and will be prone to make mistakes, especially under duress. It doesn’t have to be great, it’s just good to have that option available, which is what I’m hoping for should their be a AE 2013.

As for cross up tatsu, I only use it for the kill. All you get is 80 damage and 50 stun and the situation is reset since they’re knocked away so far. You only get the juggle state when they’re airborne, but your opponent trying to jump on his wake up when you’re jumping at him is just not something you can rely on.

107

People don’t try and jump, but they do do reversals that make them airborne. DP, flash kick, cannon spike. Hit anyone out of one of these kinds of reversals, and you get the juggle state. You also get it off a counterhit mk xup tatsu. I’m kind of confused by that one…maybe for people trying to mash a normal and trade on their wakeup? That’s pretty dumb, though.

And seriously, instead of being like “I see cammy and seth land dive kicks…” you should be like “Wow…if I just block like this I don’t have to guess? Lemme try that.” Find a cammy and try it…and be like “Damn, that is easy to block.” lol

108

Change his dive kick to work like Yun’s :stuck_out_tongue:

109

I hardly ever use cross up tatsu that I completely forgot about people doing reversals on wake up which would leave them in the juggled state. And Dannkk, I get it. If you block a certain way, it should always work. But like I said, people aren’t always as focused as they should be. That’s why we see these two dive kicks actually work, even in high level play. But again, I want this change more for the positioning and not because I think it’s going to be sick mix up.

I actually joked with my friend about changing ERyu’s dive kick to be like Akuma’s command dive kick from MvC2 where you have to input a QCF+K. So the theoretical AE version would probably be a little faster with a lower height restriction. And the EX version would be multi hitting like like Akuma’s was in MvC2. Now that would be pretty cool.

110

Id hate to see lk AK doing a knockdown. I use it a lot to punish whiffed pokes at mk’s max range and the only viable follow up is the lk AK. Plus that, E.R’s pression against knocked down opponents isnt any amazing out of the corner (the exception is knockdowns caused by a throw).

About the dive kick, I wouldnt like to see capcom changing something in order to give E.R. a setup for the dive kick as Seth’s or cammy’s. Its increases the “auto pilot” factor in the game, turns it more dumbier than it already is.

My main concerns with E.R. actually are matchup related, and most of them only will get changed with tweeks on E.R´s opponents, not on him. I cant think on anything to change on E.R. to mitigate his problems on such matchups that wouldnt make him too strong against another opponents.

111

Evil Ryu’s biggest weakness IMO is his cr.MK start up. Its the same as his cr.HK and that just seems wrong.

112

I see that some people don’t want him to have a knockdown game and some don’t want him to have a faster low forward. Both of which are two of his primary weaknesses. So if not offense, how about defense then? Maybe just buff his health/stun to 1000 each and his teleport to the same as Akuma’s and call it a day then?

I guess the point is everybody has different ideas and not everybody can be satisfied. I remember seeing the final list of changes from AE to AE 2012 and being excited at how long it was. Then I read through it and was pretty disappointed since they took away his biggest buff(6 frame sweep) with the rest being really minor and didn’t help him much in the end.

I’d prefer him to be buffed to be more offensive minded but that’s just me. I’ve thought about how this changes match ups and I don’t really see how it would make him too dominating if he could have either tatsu>sweep(only 25 of 39 characters though) or get a soft knockdown from light axe kick. As Dannkk says, blocking dive kick/cross up isn’t hard to do. So just be careful of meaty pressure and he’s the same Evil Ryu as before.

113

A better sweep is actually what I’d want. Doesn’t make sense to me for it to be the worst of all 3 characters. Shitty range, slow, really bad on block. I want to whiff punish like I do with Ryu, but unless it’s something ridiculously slow, it always gets blocked. C.mk should not be faster, only way would be to clone Ryu’s or Akuma’s and that would be lame as hell. It’s speed is balanced by it’s block/hit stun and damage potential with meter and it’s unique. There’s no reason for the sweep to be so slow, though. They’re probably afraid of tatsu, sweep combos, but oh well…it’d be cool.

I think after that, he’d basically be done. He’d have an answer for that shitty range, but just one, and a high risk one at that(would end up being -14 like ryu’s).

114

I’ve been saying that for a while now. But a lot of people seem to be against it(especially in the rebalance thread) just because they don’t want another sweep monster. He doesn’t have a vortex to back up that sweep so pretty much it’s for meaty pressure. If they gave him a 6 frame sweep, or one with the same frame data as Ryu I’d be completely satisfied with this character if nothing else was changed. It never made sense to me why the sweep is so bad in every single department.

115

I would be fine with the recovery being changed and it being -7 on block at most. I do not understand why this thing is so unsafe on block with an average start up

Ken’s sweep starts up in 8 and I feel better throwing that one out than this. Even Oni’s doesn’t feel this bad. The total frame count for Evil Ryus needs to change or the start up needs to change from 7f. And -11 on block to 6f With -12 on block

116

There is gonna be another update to SF4 and capcom is taking suggestions for character changes on there forums. Week 2 E.Ryu will be in the list of characters up for suggestions. All the details can be found here http://www.capcom-unity.com/street_fighter/go/forum/view/7411/241285/sf-character-balance-suggestions

117

It wouldnt hurt to have a sweep after lk tatsu against the whole cast, if they manage to do it w/o decreasing its startup.

Make lk.AK on block to push E.R. back 50% of the distance it pushes the opponent back. Keep the opponent’s push back unchanged.

Change something in his U2 in order that it stop hitting the first DP and missing the following ones. Maybe to decrease the time of the second dp’s startup, or to make the first dp’s hits to throw the opponent higher in the air.

Increase his f.MK hitbox to allow E.R. to do not allow the opponent to dodge it when he does certain crouched moves.

Give him a b.LK, the move would to be identical to the cl.LK but not cancelable and not chainable (c.lk x3 xx b.LK not allowed).

Increase his dive’s hitstun by 1f.

Make his mp and hp shoryukens to do 130 and 160 damage when hitting while E.R. is airborne. That would to help against all those divers, currently its a win-win situation for all of them, they never get hit cleanly, in the worse possible scenarion they trade with the dp, taking almost no damage at all.

Change something on his teleports in order the opponent knows in wich direction hes going asap so people can to punish it properly if they baited it. I know E.R.'s teleport isnt taht good to need such change, but Id like to see the teleports getting standardized, because Id ask for the same thing for Akuma’s teleport.

I guess thats what Id post there today.

118

Here is my rough draft of what I’m going to post in the Capcom Unity thread. Our character isn’t that popular, so maybe we can make our voices heard since not many people play this character so their won’t be tons and tons of suggestions for his thread.

  1. Change sweep to 6 frames. This was originally given to him in the original AE 2012 update, but it was removed in the final release. I think this was a big mistake. Evil Ryu is a zoning/footsie character and he lacks the tools needed to fight that kind of fight. This will help in that area. His walk speed is better than Ryu’s but not so much that it makes up for his slow normals. Low forward should stay the same because of it’s unique properties, but sweep needs to be sped up to compete in the footsie game.

  2. Stand jab sped up to 3 frames and +6 on hit. This will allow him to try and punish certain attacks that he’s helpless against like Rog’s jab dash punch or Fei’s jab rekka. The +6 is there to allow him to tatsu sweep the whole cast. But unlike Ryu, it only works on standing opponents so he doesn’t get a completely free sweep combo. He lacks a vortex, so the sweep isn’t there to give him 50/50. It’s there just for meaty pressure and safe jumps.

  3. LK axe kick changed to -5 on block. Right now it’s incredibly unsafe at -7 with not much push back. It’s also not a true block string when canceled from a low forward. All in all, it’s only a risk throwing out this move. Seeing as it only does 100 damage and doesn’t grant you a knockdown their is no reward for landing this move outside having 2 meters to spend on a FADC combo.

  4. Increase block stun on all hop kick tatsu’s. Right now they’re all unsafe, including the EX version which is the most unsafe against crouching opponents. The light, medium, and heavy are -4, -6, and -8 I believe. Change it to -2, -4, and -6 respectively. They serve no purpose as you can’t hit confirm them and it leaves you right next to your opponent so punishing is rather easy.

  5. Speed up start up of HK axe kick to 24 frames. Right now it starts up in 26 and is incredibly slow. This won’t solve that problem, but it’s a little better and makes canceling from a close medium punch much easier. Right now it’s very strict as if you’re not canceling as soon as possible, then cl. MP x HK axe kick won’t work.

That’s all I’m asking for. Keep his defense weak(low health, slow teleport), but strengthen his offense a bit. The sweep should be kind of big, the jab change will help assist the sweep. The other 3 are pretty minor and won’t be really noticed much.

119

It’s slow because of what can potentially stem from it. The fact that it moves him forward to close the gap for a cs.hp in many cases (forcing stand, thus permitting a lot of follow-through options)makes it very strong despite it’s sluggish speed. His c.mk is excellent when you consider what’s possible with it - it’s his can opener. If it were faster, I suspect it would become far too powerful. If you were to speed it up, I’d anticipate it’s forward moving properties to be reduced or removed completely, effectively paring back his ability to let rip with his signature serious damage.

120

To start I want to apologize for my incoming english mistakes ;). Like 90% of the world, my mother tongue isn’t english.

I agree with Gamogo, the 2mk is perfect right now, if it connects and you FADC you just take off 40-50% of your opponent life. If it was as fast as ken it would be broken.

I think the real problem with Eryu’s normals is his sweep. I don’t want it to be faster but I would love to see that sweep actually able to whiff punish like all the other shoto sweep. Just like ken, just like ryu, just like akuma. This sweep is really unsafe and eryu doesn’t have crazy mix up like akuma, so why exactly is this sweep so bad really… I don’t understand this.

About the light axe kick, I think it’s a great move, I don’t want it to knock down because I use it almost all the time to deal damages from a far.mp or a cr.mk and FADC. Tho, I would love to have less knock back on hit because right now, you can’t really do anything after a successful hit. We are at +1 but so far away that we can’t do anything and Eryu normals aren’t that good at this range.
I mean, really often, I do a combo that end into lk axe kick but I get stuffed out right after because how crappy cr.mp is or how slow cr.mk is. Ruy, ken, akuma, claw, boxer, cody etc… they all don’t care and press buttons after a this move on hit and stuff me. It’s really annoying.
The whole goal of Eryu isn’t to zone, he isn’t ryu or sagat, he is a cody like character for me. Get in, hit the target and kill the target… but it just stop after that damn lk axe kick if you don’t have enough meter to FADC.

About the dive kick, the problem isn’t the very low hitstun, it’s how obvious the dive kick is. It is too slow and you can’t do it as low as akuma or seth… this is terrible ! he already doesn’t have as good mix up or defence (because his teleport is just bad…), so why can’t he at least have a decent dive kick ? I’d love to be able to do that dive sooner when I jump.

A bit more health ? I don’t want that… A bit more stun ? F*** yeah !
Come on ! you do some fancy combo with just frames everywhere, you have a perfect footsie game, you AA with your crappy shoryuken which only hits once most of the time (40 damages…) but you take 2 little combo and you are stun ?! And I really mean little combo, not fancy just frames stuff.
For example, I often die against cammy because : lp lp cr.mp hk spiral arrow. It’seasy to do, easy to confirm, easy to set up aften any knock down with cammy’s 50/50 and unblockables : day 1 cammy can do that all the time… I eat the incoming mix up and I’m stun with the exact same combo ?! 0 just frame needed, 0 mind game required… this is a shame.
Another example : I own a cody very bad. He has his ultra almost full. Suddenly he jumps in and I AA with my crappy hp shoryu… it trades like often against good hitbox jumps in. Just after he does a random ex ruffian kick and I’m lying on the ground. He jumps in (50/50 mix up, random block in other word)… I’m dead. He does cl.hp-cr.mp-hk ruffian kick cancel >> I’m stun. He does ultra and wins.
That’s some matches that actually happened to me yesterday and it’s really frustrating. Why does Eryu have to die in just 2 easy to do combo ? if you want to stun somebody, you should earn this ! not just do 2 easy crappy combo and stun for free.
If you add 50 stun, you’ll have to do some real combo or find a combo thrice… you make your choice. You are a good player, you diserve that stun, but you are not, you’ll have to earn the stun with a third opening.

Last but not a necessary thing if you up his stun : that teleport is useless !! do something please, a faster recovery, to go a bit further away I don’t know… something please. It shouldn’t be a braindead options tho, I don’t want to see people become some sort of teleport monsters like dictators or akumas newbies but… right now it’s pointless to have this teleport.

Imo, the teleport buff OR the stun buff is the way to go. If he still has a terrible stun, he should at least have a way out like akuma and seth. Right now he has nothing and can loose against really random people.

I’m curiouse what you guys think about that, I don’t think it would make Eryu broken in anyway. Sorry if it’s too long, I had to argue a lot to make myself clear about what I think evil ryu should be ;).