Evil Ryu is a “secretly OP” character. He’s absolutely fine the way he is, maybe a bit too good. But he definitely shouldn’t get any buffs either way. Evil Ryu is a rushdown/vortex character up there with Akuma, Seth and Cammy and barely anyone knows it. Awesome offense, great vortex, high damage (can literally kill you in 1 combo + an oki) and one of the most practical unblockables in the game off of a big damage, it’s literally big a big damage combo into another big damage combo almost guaranteed. Evil Ryu should definitely not get buffed, the only reason people ask for E Ryu buffs is just due to ignorance.<br><br>But I can’t really blame anyone for not understanding. Barely anyone knows why he’s good because there’s barely any high-level E Ryu players. It’s that thing where mediocre players assume that it’s just their character is mediocre. And when there’s almost no high-level ERyu play to watch and go off of, I can’t blame anyone for thinking that E Ryu isn’t a top 5 character.<br>
I want him to have a bit of a better teleport recovery, although if he had Akuma’s, it would definitely be overpowered I guess
farther hitbox on cr.mp, 5 frame cr. mk and less push back, 6 frame cr. hk, and 900 hp, and less startup on both ultras(a frame less is all needed). Thats it really, you dnt need anything else for this character. Maybe more invincibility on his srks and thats it. This guy is footsie heavy, if your good you can get 350 off a cr.mk with 2 bars of meter, and even more if you got 3 bars and ultra
Fix the divekick. Give it more block/hit stun so the mashers don’t get a free punish every time it touches them. Also extend the collision box way further down his body. A lot of times if they block the wrong way, instead of walking INTO your divekick they walk UNDER it and get a free punish on your whiff. They blocked wrong! They should be getting hit, not me!!<div><br></div><div>Fix U2. When you connect it from max range on an extended normal, a good poke, they’ll often fall out after the first hit. If you successfully predict Ryu’s c.mk or fireball at max range, that should be a punish. </div><div><br></div><div>Change target combo from cl.mp xx s.hp to s.mp xx s.hp. Right now this target combo is one of the most useless moves in the game. It literally has no purpose because why in the freaking world would you ever want to cancel cl.mp into something other than haduken or axe kick? If you could do it off of s.mp, this would give Evil Ryu a way to combo into an untechable knockdown without spending meter. He can’t combo into sweep so this would be a good replacement. </div><div><br></div><div>Make Hop Kick -1 on block, +1 on hit, and +3 on counterhit. Put a hitbox on the ground so it actually COUNTERS the lows and doesn’t just go over them. This move is very poopy. If it hits them, they just mash DP or throw to get out for free. If you correctly baited Ryu’s c.mk, it doesn’t matter because he recovers before you do and he gets to punish your whiff. That’s the ultimate slap in the face. </div><div><br></div><div>No significant changes to Axe Kicks - that **** is already so good. If the short Axe Kick is blocked, you can cancel it into focus attack for a nasty frame trap. And no, there’s no way it would be fair if it was safe on block, you could just brainlessly spam it all day off of c.mk. C’mon guys, we’re better than this. We’re way better than the scrubby Yun players. </div>
The divekick is for faking crossups, and sometimes just altering your jump. It doesn’t need to be better than that, it’s good at its job.<br><br>Are you really asking that U2 be better for throwing out at random during footsies…? Combo into it. You sound like a Juri playing complaining about her U2 having a crappy hitbox (for throwing out at random/wakeup reversals) when she’s not using the fireballs or instant j.MP xx LK dive kick to combo into it.<br><br>You are aware that the hopkick can be canceled into air EX Hurricane Kick, right? That gives it a ton of utility. The hopkick isn’t the problem. Shrinking Ryu’s hitbox is a natural property of his c.MK. Ryu players have always used it to do stuff like get under crossups or make viper’s burn kicks miss entirely. It’s an evasive move. This is a lot of the reason Ryu players hated it the active frames on Ryu’s low MK got nerfed, it made the move a lot less evasive. So they brought it back in AE2012 and that’s why Ryu players are using c.MK to go underneath your hopkicks.<br>
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<div class=“QuoteAuthor” style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;”><a href="/profile/7457/Person-Man">Person-Man</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText” style=“font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;”><font face=“Arial”>Th</font><span style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana;”>e divekick is for faking crossups, and sometimes just altering your jump. It doesn’t need to be better than that, it’s good at its job.</span></div></blockquote>
<div class=“QuoteText”><font face=“Arial” size=“2”>Except it DOESN’T do a good job at it as I said before. Very often when you try to setup a fake crossup (especially on wakeup), if your opponent holds forward they end up just walking underneath you causing your divekick to whiff. That shouldn’t happen. They blocked wrong, they should get hit. </font></div>
<blockquote class=“Quote”><div class=“QuoteText”><br><a href=“http://forums.shoryuken.com/profile/7457/Person-Man” style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;”>Person-Man</a><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”> said:</span></font><br><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>Are you really asking that U2 be better for throwing out at random during footsies…? Combo into it. You sound like a Juri playing complaining about her U2 having a crappy hitbox (for throwing out at random/wakeup reversals) when she’s not using the fireballs or instant j.MP xx LK dive kick to combo into it.</span></font><br></div></blockquote><br><font face=“Arial” size=“2”>At random? No, not at random. Its for when you anticipate a poke or a fireball. There’s no reason you shouldn’t be able to react to a fireball on wakeup to punish. Or punish that Ryu who’s getting too greedy and keeps whiffing low forwards pixels away from your body. </font><div class=“QuoteText”><font size=“2”><br></font></div><div class=“QuoteText”><font face=“Arial” size=“2”>A lot of other characters had similar problems with characters falling out of Ultras under certain circumstances. A lot of these were corrected in AE and 2012 by forcing the opponent into the correct position after the first hit. There’s no reason Evil Ryu should have to suffer though this when the rest of the cast doesn’t. </font><br><br><blockquote class=“Quote”><a href=“http://forums.shoryuken.com/profile/7457/Person-Man” style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal;”>Person-Man</a><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”> said:</span></font><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></blockquote></div><div class=“QuoteText”><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>You are aware that the hopkick can be canceled into air EX Hurricane Kick, right? That gives it a ton of utility. </span></font><blockquote class=“Quote”></blockquote></div><div class=“QuoteText”><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div><div class=“QuoteText”><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>That doesn’t do anything tactically for you. All it does is allow you to “guess” whether or not it’s going to hit for extra damage. You can’t hit confirm off of hopkick to activate the cancel. And if you cancel and they’ve blocked, EX Tatsu pushes you out leaving you in a lousy position. </span></font></div><div class=“QuoteText”><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div><blockquote class=“Quote”><div class=“QuoteText”><a href=“http://forums.shoryuken.com/profile/7457/Person-Man” style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal;”>Person-Man</a><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”> said:</span></font><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div><div class=“QuoteText”><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>The hopkick isn’t the problem. Shrinking Ryu’s hitbox is a natural property of his c.MK. Ryu players have always used it to do stuff like get under crossups or make viper’s burn kicks miss entirely. It’s an evasive move. This is a lot of the reason Ryu players hated it the active frames on Ryu’s low MK got nerfed, it made the move a lot less evasive. So they brought it back in AE2012 and that’s why Ryu players are using c.MK to go underneath your hopkicks.</span></font><br></div><div class=“QuoteText”><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div><div class=“QuoteText”><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”></span></font></div></blockquote><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”>LOL no. You really think Ryu players are reacting to hopkicks with low forward to get underneath it? Ryu already spams this move like crazy because it’s one of (if not THE) best poke in the game. The hop kick is supposed to function as an anti-poke to allow you to get in. There’s no reason I should be PUNISHED for using it against A POKE. </font>
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Well they could lower the height restriction for his dive kick, I think that’s a better buff then giving it a little more hit stun. Lets face it, even if they did add hit stun it’s not going to be like the demon flip dive kick where you can hit someone at the top of their head and still combo from it. That’s not going to happen. So a slightly lower height restriction just so you can do jab jab, dive kick without people being able to walk under wouldn’t be a bad idea IMO. It still retains its current hit stun so you can’t combo from that position, but maybe you can catch people off guard enough so that they won’t be able to block the grounded attacks in time. <div><br></div><div>As for he hop kick, that move is for blowing up crouch techs and low kick attacks. I think it’s good as it is right now, I’ve gotten plenty of mileage off of it. Just use it during your normal tick throw set ups. Once you’ve conditioned them to tech during those times, you can blow them up really hard the next time they crouch tech in that same situation. The only thing I would liked changed is to lessen the hit stun and recovery so that when it whiffs you’re not at such a big disadvantage. It can still be -2 on block, I just hate the long recovery on block or hit. It screws with my timing for the next button press, especially when I’m trying to bait a normal so I go for DP FADC. </div>
the dive kick is working against some chars as a fake crossup tool for the same reason a lot of E.R’s stuffs works, lack of knoledge from the opponent about the char. For the dive kick to hit, you have to hit the button it a lot earlier than if you would to do a crossup j.mk. People are just used to see the opponent jumping and then to calculate the landing trajectory, but its starting to change, due all the cammies around, people are waiting to block accordingly. As long as the players start getting used to block at the right time, things like back throw, dash and instant dive wont work anymore. Its just lack of knoledge, its very easy to block that.<br><br>About the hopkick, everytime I do that it wiffs against crouching kicks or it get beat by a crouching punch. Plus that, no decent frame advantage on hit and no decent followups in case you hit it. I mean, the ex tatsu followup have decent damage, but the same kind of frame trap can be achieved with only a grounded ex tatsu, better followup and its way safer. It would be a more apropriated move if it had its hurtboxes moved a little higher on the screen, the hitboxes moved a little further down, +2 on hit and +3 on couterhit, -2 on crouched block and -3 on standing block.<br>
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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/7457/Person-Man">Person-Man</a> said:</div>But I can’t really blame anyone for not understanding. Barely anyone knows why he’s good because there’s barely any high-level E Ryu players. It’s that thing where mediocre players assume that it’s just their character is mediocre. And when there’s almost no high-level ERyu play to watch and go off of, I can’t blame anyone for thinking that E Ryu isn’t a top 5 character.<br><br>
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<br>So true. Not about top 5, but about players asking for buffs when they just need to learn how to play. Sounds mean, but I don’t mean it to be at all. It’s just how it is. The game is hard, but it’s pretty much always an issue with what you are doing, and not an issue with your character. <br><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/7828/DeathGun">DeathGun</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>About the hopkick, everytime I do that it wiffs against crouching kicks or it get beat by a crouching punch. Plus that, no decent frame advantage on hit and no decent followups in case you hit it. I mean, the ex tatsu followup have decent damage, but the same kind of frame trap can be achieved with only a grounded ex tatsu, better followup and its way safer. It would be a more apropriated move if it had its hurtboxes moved a little higher on the screen, the hitboxes moved a little further down, +2 on hit and +3 on couterhit, -2 on crouched block and -3 on standing block.<br></div>
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You’re using it wrong if you’re always getting hit out of it or whiffing. There’s two ways to use it. First is to go over lows. Like posted above…Walk into Ryu’s c.mk range, and hop kick over it. This will whiff, but who cares? You’re in there passed his c.mk where your normals are as good as his or you canceled it into super and he’s hurting. <br><br>The other is as a throw fake. This has to be done meaty, or linked with at least +2 frame advantage. It’s airborne on frame 5, so with +2, you’re airborne on the same frame as even a 3 frame c.lk. If done at +2 frame advantage, it will get beat by anything but a low attack, but again, who cares, cuz you’re baiting a crouch tech?<br>
I would say leave the sweep at 7f, make close lp/far lp +7f on hit<br>HK axe kick overhead<br>LK axe kick -5 on block, the main purpose is to combo it from a cr.mk<br>Shakunetsu : 69f recover -> something decent like 55f<br>far HP : higher hitbox for anti air purposes<br>close MK , not -7 on block -> -3 or whatever.<br>close HK : 0f on block , +3 on hit , less push back<br>Jump HP , give it ryu/ken’ hit box<br>Jump HK : 4->5 active frames<br>neutral jump MP : 5->6 active frame<br>Target combo 90->110 damage<br>Hop kick -> always cross over grounded characters<br>
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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/9650/Dannkk">Dannkk</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><a href="/profile/7828/DeathGun">DeathGun</a> said:<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteText”>About the hopkick, everytime I do that it wiffs against crouching kicks or it get beat by a crouching punch. Plus that, no decent frame advantage on hit and no decent followups in case you hit it. I mean, the ex tatsu followup have decent damage, but the same kind of frame trap can be achieved with only a grounded ex tatsu, better followup and its way safer. It would be a more apropriated move if it had its hurtboxes moved a little higher on the screen, the hitboxes moved a little further down, +2 on hit and +3 on couterhit, -2 on crouched block and -3 on standing block.<br></div>
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You’re using it wrong if you’re always getting hit out of it or whiffing. There’s two ways to use it. First is to go over lows. Like posted above…Walk into Ryu’s c.mk range, and hop kick over it. This will whiff, but who cares? You’re in there passed his c.mk where your normals are as good as his or you canceled it into super and he’s hurting. <br><br>The other is as a throw fake. This has to be done meaty, or linked with at least +2 frame advantage. It’s airborne on frame 5, so with +2, you’re airborne on the same frame as even a 3 frame c.lk. If done at +2 frame advantage, it will get beat by anything but a low attack, but again, who cares, cuz you’re baiting a crouch tech?<br></div>
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When you dodge Ryu’s c.mk you will be at a huge frame disadvantage. It will keep surprising the opponent as long as he doesnt know the move’s properties, like most of E.R’s shenanigans.<br><br>Now, about his uses: with most of the chars I play against, the move usually only works when it hits the opponents before theirs moves becomes active or when he tries to tech while standing, it works as a frametrap. When it works and you hit the opponent, the followups are worses than the options the other frame traps gives to E.R. Theres better options for such cases, as I said before.<br><br>I dont think E.R. needs a move like that desperatedly and all, but if capcom did the move the way they did in order to be used to hop over a low poke and hit the opponent, they should to rework its hitboxes and hurtboxes. That would to give the E.R. an alternative that his other moves doesnt. Again, its not “something E.R. NEEDS otherwise he will be as strong as a pile of shit” kind of thing. I juse saw people commenting about the move and wanted to give my 2 cents.<br>
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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/12454/Rice_Eater">Rice_Eater</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><br><div>As for the dive kick, how much hit stun though? Every dive kick in this game(except Gouken and Akuma’s DF dive kick and Cammy’s EX CS) can’t be combo’d into unless landed meaty from a wake up, against crouchers, or at knee/waist level. Are you suggesting he could combo off a raw dive kick when landed at chest/head level or what or we just talking about a few frames so it’s not too significant? Just wondering. </div></div>
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I dont know if the hitstun of Akuma’s regular dive is bigger than E.R. or what, but sometimes hes able to hit a c.mp against some characters whose E.R. definitively cant. And Im not talking about a meaty dive. I guess its because hes nearer from the ground when his leg hits the opponent, Im not sure.<br><br>My problem with E.R.'s dive is that it cant combo a lot of characters due theirs heights, Id like to see that changed.<br>
The edit button is messed up for me so after playing some more Eryu I feel like :
his sweep needs to be 6f startup , it’s already -11 on block and Eryu has a weak/not great okizeme after(tatsu cross up is hard to time, hard to do a safe jump, can’t dive kick if too far),also the range is terrible.
cr.mk : 6f start-up
target combo : make it hard knockdown with the same duration as the sweep, so cr.mkxxLKaxekick FADC target combo would be cool, already a 1f link
far HP : better anti air hitbox
cr.MP : hitbox+hurtbox slightly forward so it stops whiffing a lot (like cross up MK,cr.lk,cr.lp,cr.mp whiffs a lot )
HK axe kick overhead
and some frame data changes in my previous post
cr. MK - 6 frame startup, +1 active frame (total length unchanged).
Hop Kick - Extend hitbox downwards. If I correctly predict a low forward and use the command normal that’s supposed to go over lows I shouldn’t whiff and get punished for it.
Divekick - More hitstun. Getting punished for improperly spaced blocked divekicks is fine, but I shouldn’t need a pixel-perfect meaty setup just to link a 3 frame normal after hitting a divekick.
Target Combo - Can activate from far s. MP as well as cl. MP. Also either make it cancellable or lessen the recovery and blockstun so it’s still -5 on block but can be followed up and you can use the juggle state it inflicts. An idea I just had that fits with Capcom’s “hey this sounds fun” approach to patching is make it so it can only cancel into Hadoken, cancelled into Hadokens always fully juggle, and make it so Target Combo xx EX Hadoken FADC Ultra 1 is possible (maybe not full hits on the ultra).
HK Axe Kick - Hits overhead. 140 damage, 200 stun. Maybe make it startup 1 or 2 frames faster so cl. MP xx HK Axe Kick isn’t quite so timing specific.
EX Axe Kick - No longer hard knockdown, 120 damage, 150 stun, has 1 hit of armor during startup and active frames. -4 on block, +2 on hit (if my math is right, it goes to +0/+6 when FADC’d). The intention here is to give E. Ryu an option between the ranges where his 3 and 4 frame normals are good and where c. MK is good while not making the option braindead (it takes 3 meters to make it safe or combo after it, but it blows right through properly predicted pokes).
I know what you’re talking about. I have noticed to that Akuma’s dive kick will combo at certain heights where ER’s won’t. I think Capcom felt that would be ER’s trade off for his dive kick having a shorter height restriction and I think it also has less forward movement then Akuma’s regular dive kick. Considering how hard of a time he has getting in and has slow normals to fight in the footsie game, I’d also like to see his dive kick get buffed to at least the same hit stun as Akuma’s dive kick as well.
Another suggestion, hop kick > EX tatsu has much more push back. I didn’t realize it at first, but this move is incredibly unsafe. Not only can we get easily punished by normals, we can get Ultra’d. The few of us who does use this only get away with it because people don’t know how unsafe it is. When they finally figure it out we’re going to get hit hard for it. I think it’s ridiculous that all the hop kick tatsu’s are unsafe. And spending meter makes it even more unsafe since you can’t really hit confirm this. I’d also like to see a buff to far st. fierce so that it can hit as a anti-air like Akuma’s far st. fierce.
I think the devs expected people to hitconfirm the hop. Its possible, but its stremelly hard to do.
^Ya, really only viable with EX tastu and even that isnt really that good unless you’re getting the m.axe kick after in the corner.
I noticed taht this thread started becaming a gift’s list to santa, when we should be looking for thing that would to help on making E.R.'s bad matchups to get 5-5. So, first of all, who do you think are the bad matchups for E.R.?
I will post my bad matchup’s list later, I wanna think a bit about some matchups I dont have too much experience before posting anything.
IMO the worst matchup in the game is Ryu. He forces you into his zoning game, and once you’re playing, everything that you can do, he can do twice as good. Low forward is straight up unbeatable and it makes Ryu is completely untouchable in that range. Every other matchup I feel like I can win if I outplay my opponent, but against Ryu you’re just completely shut down.
E.Ryu’s cr.MK has better range than Ryus and it doesn’t have a hurtbox in front if it. The problem with E.Ryu’s cr.MK is the start up. Much like Ken vs Ryu the only reason Ken can play the cr.MK game is because his cr.MK starts up in 4 frames where Ryu’s starts in 5. Evil Ryu needs a faster start up on his cr.MK something like 6 start up 4 active 16 recovery
Also Evil Ryu’s cr.HK starts up in 7 frames if it’s going to be -11 on block it should at least start up in 6 otherwise they should make it -7 on block no more than -9
by comparison
Ken start up 8 block -6
Gouken start up 6 block -3
Akuma start up 6 block -9 but can be canceled into Super/Ultra
Ryu start up 5 block -14
Oni start up 9 block -8 (this sweep sucks too)