Doesn’t seem like that at all from the matches I’ve seen. Just super volatile, with perhaps a slight advantage to Akuma for control tools. But overall it’s just ridiculous, ridiculous damage.
I think he loses the match…but I’m no pro, so what do I know? Akuma just has better options. All around. The only think you can sort of abuse is your c.mk range, but even that he can whiff punish with far hk for a huge combo. Eryu doesn’t have enough health to fight akuma. I usually play normal ryu vs. akuma which is a solid 5-5.
edit…lol. Think I will try to cancel c.mk to demon on one of those whiff punishes now that I think about it. Doesn’t change the match though.
And Akuma has enough health to fight Evil Ryu, then?
Thing is, while Akuma’s options in the match are indeed better, they’re not better by a mile. Plus we have Ryu damage vs. 900HP and Evil Ryu damage vs. 850. It makes a difference. We’re just dealing with such such insane amounts of damage in relation to the low amounts of HP that in any single match the matchup can seem horribly lopsided. Then you watch another and see the other side get brutally mauled. 3.5-6.5 is certainly insanity, and I’d say 4-6 is likewise overkill, though at least somewhat plausible.
Playing Ryu-Akuma instead of ER-Akuma or Akuma mirror is very much recommended though (at least if you’re the better player). ER-Akuma and the mirror are swingy as hell, while Ryu-Akuma is very stable.
They are, actually. He can sweep you after tatsu, so any combo he hits you with, he should be able to get that hard knockdown, which just keeps you in his vortex. Your vortex ends unless you want to spend to 2 bars to get your hard knockdown. This is why eryu doesn’t have enough health to fight Akuma. You have to take more chances than he does. You can hit your combo, but you don’t get the free mixup afterwards that he does.
In my opinion, at least, it’s not a 6.5 match…it’s 6/4. He doesn’t get raped, but you will have a harder time winning than he will.
One tatsu-sweep combo is, what, 300 or so? That means at least 3 vortex repetitions that hit to kill you, plus perhaps a stray hit. ER needs like two combos to kill Akuma, give or take that stray hit. You don’t need the vortex as such, the damage is insane enough to compensate.Plus you can convert into a full combo from cr.mk much better than Akuma can. It’s not necessarily equivalent to flip shenanigans, but again compensates.
Tatsu sweep is 90 + 80 = 170. It’s really not that much.
Matchup numbers don’t indicate how hard each character has to work. Akuma is super hard to play against with every character because of all his options.
Akuma can’t do tatsu sweep combos on E Ryu -> Akuma doesn’t get meterless vortex without doing simple combos into s.lp -> sweep.
I don’t think they’re talking about a raw tatsu sweep combo. More like a hit confirm into it which lets say could be DF dive kick, cr. LP, st. HP, LK Tatsu, sweep. All that does 273. But you can’t tatsu sweep Evil Ryu so that helps him a little in this match up. But still, his slow normals even up the footsie battle IMO so he doesn’t have any advantage in the neutral game or anywhere else IMO.
I don’t think it’s that bad, but at least 6/4. But I have to admit, seeing Naruo getting beatdown by -6 and Eita 3-0 each during the Topanga League doesn’t make me feel that confident even about that number.
6-4 is an exaggeration if you ask me. To say it is worse, pure madness. Just watched the Topanga matches and it’s just Naruo getting outplayed. Especially vs. -6. -6 just had much, much better spacing and rhythm and dropped less combos than Naruo. You see him going for low strongs and such to make sure he lands that damage, too, because in this matchup you die so, so quickly. vs. Eita he just kind of seemed lost as to what he should be doing in the first place.
I didnt commented more deeply about the footsies because it would take a lot of things to talk about, that may look too subjective. But I will talk about akuma’s far s.HK, because its quite idiot vs E.Ryu.
If akuma sweep’s range is X, he will be using the far s.HK from X+1, X+2 and so, range. From such range its first hit will miss a defending or neutral E.R. If E.R. does a c.mk a little before, at the same time or a little after akuma’s f.HK, the c.mk will be beaten in 80% of the cases (extra damage due CH), will to trade in 10% of the cases (allowing akuma to follow with a sweep).
If you try to antecipate it with f.LP you will lose 33% of the times, trade 33% of the times (you will get comboed by akuma) and to beat it 33% of the times (he will be pretty far for you to do anything unless you OSed it into a hadoken and you have 2 bars [if you are rapidfiring the jab you wont be doing the hadoken very often]).
If you try to predict it with s.mp the odds are a little better than with the s.jab, but obviously you cant rapidfire it. Its really easy to get sweeped while doing that, thats the downside when compared with the s.jab. S.mk have to be done from a range it would to miss a neutral Akuma in order to hit the incomming far s.HK, you also have to do it way way before the far s.HK in order to hit it. If Akuma does nothing and your s.mk misses, guess what? sweep.
Thats why I didnt commented the footsies with details, its a lot of subjective theory fighting. I have quite some experience on these matchup nowadays (not good akumas, but good enough to get me angry with the matchup sometimes), im dealing with these things Im talking about by some time now, and tested these stuffs on the trainning mode A LOT.
I forgot to say that when the far s.HK hits or trades with your pokes its going to be the first hit of the move that will be hitting or trading with you. When you does nothing, the first hit misses and the second hit hits you.
Do not forget that if he misses the range of the far s.HK or if he “misses the range” of the far s.HK, and the first hit reach you while blocking, you will still have to deal with that U1 cancelling bullshit…
Neutral jumps, fireballs, focus attack blow up far hk at the range you’re talking about.
both neutral jump and focus attack have to be done with a lot of antecipation to catch akuma’s s.HK. your jump have to be almost on its edge when akuma starts the s.HK. Its a lot of time. The focus must be ready to be released when the first hit of the s.HK hits, you have to do it with some antecipation aswell (less antecipation than the neutral jump). And FAing on nothing have its risks. And obviously both of your suggestions are out of question when he gets the ultra, specially the focus attack.
I also said fireball.
Neutral jump is fine if he has ultra, if you empty jump you can hold down hp during the ultra flash and negative edge out a SRK during landing.
You can also walk forwards and block in order to make it the 2 hit unsafe version. Also I’m pretty sure a well-timed cr.mk will beat s.hk there, but I didn’t test it and obviously there’s some risk involved.
Thats what I do most of the times, to walk forward to try and crouch block the first hit, its the option with less antecipation required, and also the less risky one, plus you can to follow with something if the akuma is getting afraid of hitting you because you are nearer him now, almost at s.MP’s range.
I usually do a mk during the neutral jump even when akuma does not perform the s.HK, i think thats why I eat so many ultras on such situations. Akuma can try to predict its an empty landing and try to hit E.Ryu with a poke while E.Ryu is falling, but once he does not have a move like Ryu’s s.HK its gonna be a guessing game thats highly favorable to E.Ryu.
A well timmed c.mk will beat the s.HK, good luck hitting it, you have do it on antecipation and at a very specific range and time otherwise its going to be beaten or to trade. If you do the c.mk to hit a neutral akuma with the tip of E.Ryu’s foot at the same time akuma starts the s.HK, you get beaten. Its weird.
Did anyone see Sako V Xiao Hai last night? Despite having trouble closing it out at the end, Sako put on an Evil Ryu clinic of doom. I think we might see an Evil Ryu top 8 at the next Evo if Sako shows up…
And btw, I am thinking why Sako choose Evil Ryu over Akuma. What make Evil Ryu over Akuma ?
Hope we will see Sako’s ER at Evo this year.
There’s lots of small things, like having most of his buttons inherited from Ryu so they’re more solid. Better grounded AA capability. Brilliant dashes, longer-ranged footsies than Akuma and Ryu typically play, and with much more payoff. Plus just tons of fun stuff to labmonster.
Trying to pick up E.Ryu but I have a couple of questions.
What is fireball fadc on hit?
What is dp fadc on block?
What is lk axe kick fadc on hit?
For some reason I’m having an excessive amount of trouble doing fireball fadc cr.mk. Normally fireball fadc normal is extremely easy but this thing is giving me trouble. Also what like to know what the optimized damage is after post lk axe kick fadc.
I like to have my own little combos that I do when I style so right now it’s
cr.mp cr.lp st.mp fb fadc cr.mk lk axe kick fadc cr.lp st.hp mk axe kick cr.mp lk tatsu sweep or lp dp hp dp.
I’ve landed it online a couple of times but I usually shy away from doing fireball fadc cr.mk because I drop it.
lk axe fadc is +3 on hit as cl mp is a 1 framer. link into close mp for an easy near optimal combo (plinkable). or do cr lp, cl fp [ 2 1 framers, 1 is unplinkble]
fireball fadc is t least +7 on hit as cr mk links but idk if it is +8. cr mk hado fadc cr mk seems like a 2 or 1 framer to me so im guessing +7 or +8 but idk
dp fadc i think is -1
I’d wait for others to chime in before you take my words as fact though
Can i get a pushback data somewhere?
Deathgun, I assume that was you on stream earlier playing against the Ibuki player in the Treta tournament right? If yes then good shit. You weren’t looking good after the first match but you started blowing him up in the 2nd round of the 2nd match. Great set ups as well with the mid screen cross unders and the unblockable in the corner. That match up is a pain for Evil Ryu, glad you overcame it.