I worded my above post badly, apologies. I meant to say that there are only two instances where Ryu’s normals could be considered to be “undoubtedly better” than Evil Ryu’s: First Ryu’s sweep is very good and Evil Ryu’s bordering on the useless, and then the standard kick which makes Ryu strong at the closer end of midrange, a distance Evil Ryu has some trouble with (when he’s stronger a bit farther out in return).
If Evil Ryu got Ryu’s normals he’d basically just have the best of both characters - apart from the HP the sweep and short fast cr.mk are pretty much the only things Ryu has over Evil Ryu in the first place. The rest of their buttons are pretty much equal and Evil has a pile of extra tools on top of that. Of course a combination of two high-mid (or perhaps a low top and a high mid) characters is going to be very good when the two characters are very solid in the first place.
But Akuma’s normals? Trust me, you probably wouldn’t want them for Evil Ryu, because Akuma’s buttons just don’t have active frames. This is not a terrible problem while both players are grounded - you just can’t use most buttons as “walls” during footsies like Ryu and ERyu can. But when it comes to antiairing or especially air-to-airing the opponent (ie. situations where it’s hard to determine exactly when the hit will happen), dear lord. It’s just very, very bad. The only reason Akuma doesn’t suck horribly air to air is that he has air fireballs. Even then, his air to air game is absurdly low damage - air hado, nj.lk, j.lp all do the job but do little more than tickle the opponent. In contrast, Ryus can use heavy buttons that control a good amount of space, deal good damage and stay out long.
Don’t dismiss the jabs and shorts either - Akuma’s stand short for example is utterly miserable - 3f startup, 2f active, 8f recovery. It’s stupidly hard to use for the purpose both Ryus would utilize it for: Antiairing divekicks. They have 5 start, 5 active, 6 recovery for active frames, a set of numbers that is about ten million times more usable than what Akuma has. Akuma also lacks powerful tools like Ryu/Evil j.mp on account of having air fireballs. With air fireballs present it manages to work out okay, but it’s definitely not all roses, and most definitely very different from how both Ryus approach the air game.
If Evil Ryu’s normals were just simply sped up on start up so that his sweep would be 5 frames, low forward would be 5 frames, and cr. fierce would be 4 frames then I’d say he would easily be top 5 in this game. Footsie-wise he’d be superior to Ryu IMO and would have so many new options at his disposal like new ways to land hard knockdowns and easy ways to hit confirm into the axe kick combo. It would be so good, but yeah that’s never going to happen.
Someday I’m going to learn how to change frames on my PC version so I could create my ideal Evil Ryu just for fun.
All he’d need to be top teir, imo, is a 5f c.mk. As you guys are saying…he’s really weakest in that midrange footsies battle. I usually switch to normal Ryu when someone can stay in that range to often.
It’s all good Komatik. But I think we agree on the Ryu thing. If you gave Evil Ryu the normals of Ryu (or at least his startup frames) he’d have the best of both worlds, which was my point. His normals are somewhat lacking compared to the two. Not terrible, but enough so he doesn’t have an derpy time opening people up like the other top tiers.
I think that is why people in the tier thread flip out with any buffs to Evil Ryu due to his damage. I think a 5 frame low forward would be insane though if he had his low forward. I think 6 frames is just right, same with sweep. I’d give a little buff to the lk axe kick and maybe the heavy. If I could add anything else it would be a mild teleport buff.
But yea, if his cr mk was 5 frames, and his sweep were 5 frames, and his cr hp were 4 frames, I’d definitely say he’d be top tier. Perhaps the best in the game. He’d be fun to mess around with too. All kinds of damaging combos into untechable knockdown, holy cow.
Now Akuma’s normals are better, they would be for more aggressive play though, not for defensive play that Ryu is suited for. Ryu also has the shinku hadoken, so that is another advantage he has. Such a great damn super. He also has a slightly stronger fireball, an arguably better armor breaker, and a few other things that separates him from Evil Ryu.
Akuma has less active frames on his moves, but they also start faster. A 3 frame st lk comes out almost 2x as fast as a 5 frame one. Akuma has great defensive options and is great well rounded offense wise, but you are right about him not having something akin to a shoryukenxx ultra or super. He’d be even more godly then though.
For midrange with Evil Ryu he has standing mk, but that’s about it. It’s an underrated move, but it isn’t as threatening as other mid-range options. His fst mp is good, and cr mp is good (but is a bit closer).
Hello all, i’ve been putting in work with evil ryu and I must say he is not an easy character to play to say the least.
Now coming from using characters that do not require much fundamental knowledge like sakura and ibuki, I was forced to basically go back to the basics with evil ryu.
It was for the greater good however, as I learned to play evil ryu throughout ae and continued to play him in 2012 I created some of my on technology in a matter of speaking.
From dive kick setups to what I think are some pretty cool combos that I’ve never seen before…
I have a capture device to share some of this footage but all I am awaiting is my new pc for school this, it should arrive in the next 2-3 weeks.
In the meantime if you ever want play, im on xbl GattaGeDurgen
Yea, he is very tough to play. He is very fundamental and footsie based. No using burn kicks, slides, or whatever else to just break your way in. He also has the lower health and his normals take more precision to use. A good character to use for that reason though, he actually teaches you how to play the game.
Evil Ryu’s FA2 backdash is -6 on block. Chun Li U1 doesn’t punish, Dudley s.hp/Fei Long super does. This means his Backdash is one frame slower than Ryu’s, since Ryu can block Dudley s.hp/Fei Long super after FA2 backdash. This means Evil Ryu’s backdash must be 28 frames long. Useful for safe jump timing. I couldn’t find this easily so I posted it.
Just started playing E ryu yesterday working on his combos and learning pokes and all i have to say is he is the most fun iv had since i discovered cody.
Ryu seems so fucking boring to play now all i want to do is play E ryu and Cody. I am so happy cody relies on plinks like evil ryu. it is soo much easier than when i tried E ryu before i even could do 1 frame links/plink lol
Heh, I find it’s the opposite. Actually I don’t really have a problem playing Ryu, the only thing I miss is his hp Shoryuken being 2 hits. Now playing against Ryu online is a different story. So sick of seeing random tatsus, j.hk -> walk -> grab, 17 Shoryukens on wakeup etc.
Both versions of Ryu are hard to play now cause nearly the entire cast craps on their options. It’s hard to apply fundamentals when characters are designed (I blame the large roster for that but that’s another story). It’s worse for E.Ryu though cause his fundamentals are lacking compared to Ryu so when he tries to apply any, he ends eaten alive.
I think the developers weren’t sure what kind of archetype to make E.Ryu and Oni. Both seems to have random stuff going for them that doesn’t make much sense in the overall sense of the characters. Too bad E.Ryu doesn’t have 1000 health like Oni.
Pretty funny, I guess Leaf Fans think alike because I just started using Eryu around that time as well! Having a ton of fun playing as him, I’m still going to main Sagat but I enjoy this character a lot. I might use him in the Akuma match instead of Sagat if I get good enough.
Thankfully because my scene plays a lot of KOF I don’t have a problem with eryu’s combos offline, but I think I would had there not have been the plinking technique.
rofl for a minute i was like leaf fans? wtf then i was like wait a minute hes talking about real spots haha. and yea iv neglected that move till like 2 days ago an holy shit its rape. I def gotta check out the double plink method though or practice e ryu alot more. I drop his bnb more than i drop the sasaki special when im in training [f mp cl mp cr fp]. fucking odd plink timings, if only it was as easy as O Ryu
E.Ryu isnt a good pick to fight Akuma, I guess you better to keep Sagat for such matchup.
st. mk is nice, start getting used to buffer the super with it, after some time people will start to do lvl1 focuses on it. When you cancel the mk into the demon for the first time you will rofl the rest of the day.
I personally like the match up more than Sagat vs Akuma for a few main reasons. The first is the 3 frame SRK, a lot of the safe jump setups that work on 4 and 5 frame reversals are null. I also find it easier to handle the vortex with E.Ryu, due to his size and teleport(even though it’s brutal overall).
I see it as a 5-5 match-up. I used to want to learn Adon for the match, but I felt too much of an attachment to fb characters lol
Yeah, Akuma vs. E-Ryu is roughly even - .05 in either direction at most. It is a stupidly volatile matchup though. Still definitely more even than Akuma-Sagat.
his dp loses or misses against all the divekick setups, all the demon flip with dive kick setups and all the palm setups, and most of the crossup tatsus. The only dps youre going to be hitting with Ryu will be the ones you will mash between his strings. Akuma can just walk and sweep E.Ryu’s when he tries to escape the setups with the PPP teleport. E.Ryu doesnt have any specially good midscreen setup against Akuma and the few ones that works are way less effective than usually, due to Akuma’s teleport, even when you guess the teleport’s direction correctly you cant deal that much damage with the OSes. The corner setups also get screwed due Akuma’s teleport, the OSes doesnt works properly because akuma change sides with E.Ryu awkwardly during the teleport, making your OSes going onto the corner instead the other direction. E.Ryu is obliterated by Akuma while footsie fighting. My opinion about this matchup is that its 6.5-3.5 to Akuma.
