So I’m trying to take SF4 more seriously and hopefully I will be able to at least compete in it soon. I won’t lie, I pretty much bought the DLC AE 2012 stuff for Evil Ryu and Cody who are my two favorite SF characters. As much as I like Cody, I feel that I play a bit better with Evil Ryu and would like to get some opinions on what are some things I should work on if I really want to be successful at some tournaments. I’m sure one of his negatives is the low health but what are some others?
Have posted the same answer to another thread
Lower life and stun
cr MK slower and doesnt lower hit hitbox,so it isnt usefull for MU’s like guy or viper.Also against some characters canceling to Hadouken isnt a true blockstring which i think should be,since it is so SLOW and has such big Hurtbox
cl HK doesnt have recovery frames,frame advantage on block-hit as ryu
His overhead(f+MP) doesnt have ryu like frame advantage on block and on hit
Occasional meterless untechable knockdown compared to ryu
No reliable armor breaking move,(to me its so annoying against gouken,ev ryu EX Tatsumaki should be at least the 2nd armor break move if not all of his tatsus).Actually Tatsumaki should be his main armor break move.
EX Hadouken doesnt have Ryu properties but Ken properties(imo he should have both depending on the button pressed)
Red Fireballs are worse compared to gouki
EX Tatsumaki random sometimes during combos doesnt connect all hits(like Ryu did to the past)
EX Shoryuken has ridiculously less invernibility frames(i dont know about his MP but i think Akuma’s srk’s are tons better).Also EX Shoryuken 1st hit doesnt cause knockdown
His teleport is much inferior comparred to gouki.
His Ultra 1 has less invernibility than ryu which at times is crucial to fireball wars to situations that u are low in life and react to fb for the win
His Ultra 2 isnt reliable for punishes due to opponent dropping after the 1st or 2nd hit(a memeber has uploaded a vid against T Hawk’s dive,it happens clearly often against Blanka,either after fadc U2,or to the crouch move[not down forward+HP],Ryu’s cr HK,Gouki’s cr HK,etc)
Thats my impression and i dont represent anyone else but me
The blockstring with cr. mk and hado doesn’t work if you do it at the very top. It should work within a reasonable range.
U2 is a good punish. Great anti air and can be hit in numerous ways, once you master comboing into it I would say it is the best 500+ ultra in the game.
Comboing and AA capability of Ultra 2 is great,but when it comes to punishing with it sucks,many times the first hit connects and opponent drops while being in the range of Ultra 2.
Even more annoying is when your opponent is throwing fb not from a safe blockstring and u are reacting to it while you are in the range of Ultra 2 as before,but still opponent drops.Just wtf Capcom??
Seriously i think they werent aware of this,because it doesnt make sense to a character with little life,which is not rewarding at all considering the tools he has compared to equal-lower health characters as Viper,Gouki,Seth, etc
.He is supposed to be a better version of Ryu(that doesnt mean he should be in every aspect blindly better but to FBs[in terms of mastering Hado like Shakunetsu Hadouken while still having available Ryu’s EX Hadoken plus Ken’s one{as they did},Shoryuken[EX] ,he should be for sure)
It’s odd that E. Ryu and Oni are somewhat lacking seeing as they are the 2 most powerful characters in terms of storyline, rivals of sorts. It’s funny because in the tier thread I pointed out this problem. Evil Ryu gets the damage and low health, but he doesn’t have Akuma’s tools or Ryu’s good normals. Akuma AND Ryu both have awesome normals. Evil Ryu has slow ones. I simply suggested E. Ryu should get a 6 frame cr mk and cr hk, and they cried broken. Making his axe kick more useful wouldn’t hurt either.
U2 is a good powerful punish if you don’t misjudge the range. I’ve had them fall out but it isn’t that often. Once you learn the range you can punish certain blocked moves and whiffs. So it isn’t that bad once you get used to it.
I wouldnt agree about 6 frames cr MK either considering the damage that could be followed by a long range poke,i like it as it is according to how it is supposed to be used.Just
- reduce its hurtbox at some logical degree,
2)lower his hitbox as Ryu,Ken,Gouki - make the cancel to hado a true blockstring
I would negotiate about cr HK being 6 frames but he gets Knockdowns with his Ryusokyaku(HK),although its occasional and most of the times reqcuires to spent meter but its fair enough when he builds meter that fast.Ken is in the same case while he is building meter more slowly but its much more useful for footsies.
Now about his Ultra2 take a look here and dont tell me he isnt at the proper distance [media=youtube]uitLiHgCD94[/media] 45:25-45:30
Also explain me why this is happening here [media=youtube]HlXDpHXY5Bg[/media] 27:21-27:25 cause i see bullshit.
So to a non true blockstring as cr MKxxHadouken are u telling me that i miscalculated the range instead of being Capcom’s mistake?
Plus against ryu it makes it useless to use Ultra2(leave cr MKxxHadouken,FADC,U2 and jump in to fireball Ultra 2 aside) in order to punish cr HK(-14) and/or non true blockstring cr MKxxHadouken cause in the first case the other player must be like next to u and press cr HK in order for Ultra2 to succesfully connect,chances are that it wont happen and for case 2 what it happens is ridiculous, honestly.U are like being closest to the range that it isnt a true blockstring and yet it fails.I used to use Ultra 2 there but now i prefer Ultra 1 only because of Ultra 2 failure.
How can Ken’s Ultra 1 hit u like 0.75 square far and Ev Ryu’s Ultra 2 that moves him forward fail? at least it should put u in the juggle state of Ultra 2. To me its nonsense
Wow big post, the videos make it weird.
Cr. mk is a good combo tool, but it isn’t a great move on its own, nor is the cr hk. Cr hk is useless right now. Making it faster than the cr mk would be silly, especially when other shotos sweep his cr mk.
His cr mk at 6 frames wouldn’t put him on par with Viper, Akuma, or Seth. His normals are just too slow for his health and he lacks tools.
His axe kicks aren’t anything to write home about. Lk is -7 on block and hk is a +1 on block with a 26 frame startup which is just silly. Those should be buffed a bit. They are near useless outside of combos.
It is a blockstring in most cases. The time I’ve found it not to be one is when it hits on the very tip of the kick. You don’t have to be very close, just not at the very tip. But you can U2 off of a normal firebal at that range.
U2 can be comboed in many ways but it is harder to use than U1. You can land it off of any normal except st and cr RH, far hp, forward mp (if crouching), and forward mk. For a 500+ damage move that’s great.
It also works off of shoyuken, ex tatsu, air mp, tatsu crossup, fireball, AND ex fireball.
That’s many ways to land one move. I have had U2 do some weird stuff, but it isn’t frequent and I wouldn’t call it a bad Ultra, Naruo uses it very well and nails it quite frequently. Quite the game changer.
That’s why you have two ultras. If you need U1 to punish something in a match, use it.
Thats the case of compromising or “adapting”(take it as u like),for instance lets take the match up against Gouki.U pick Ultra2 to punish air Hados and in theory cr HK (which Gouki will drop after first hit unless he does it next to u)Ultra 1 covers the not true blockstrings.If his Srk EX was as it should be(to cause knockdown) and at least had Ryu’s invurnibility u would pick an ultra under different conditions like damage criterias
About punishes,imo,ev ryu doesnt have versatile moves(in terms of startup) compared to others for punishing stuff,but sure when he does he does it with the wild way.
Fei Long and Gouki are 2 examples that ryu does much better i believe just because of that
I’m sorry, but I can’t even tell what you’re saying.
When I play Evil Ryu, I really wish his Cr.HP has start-up 4 or 5 to link to combos from Cr.LP. I don’t know what Capcom think to make this move too slow
I would love it too.
It does have a bit more range than Cr. hp though.
I’m pretty sure it’s because Capcom doesn’t want Evil Ryu to have a easy hit confirm into the axe kick combo. But he does have Akuma’s cr. HP which is also 6 frames. But then again he also has Akuma’s sweep and st. fierce and both are 1 frame slower so would it have really hurt them to make it 1 frame faster? I say they owe us that much. They can make it 5 frames and keep it a 1 frame link, I think that would have been somewhat fair.
Yea, his normals tend to start up and recover slower. They have more active frames in some instances, but that’s it.
Evil Ryu normals in comparison to Ryu normals. Not really that clear cut:
[code=]cl.lp SAME
cl.mp SAME
cl.hp less a, less r, safer
cl.lk more adv on hit
cl.mk SAME
cl.hk more r, unsafer
st.lp SAME
st.mp more hit/blockstun
st.hp less st, more r, less adv on hit
st.lk SAME
st.mk less st, more a, less r, safer
st.hk less st, more r, unsafer
cr.lp SAME
cr.mp SAME
cr.hp more st, less a, LESS r, safer
cr.lk SAME
cr.mk lag kick
cr.hk lag kick, less unsafe on block
nj.lp less st, more a
nj.mp less st
nj.hp less st, less a
nj.lk SAME
nj.mk SAME
nj.hk SAME
j.lp more a
j.mp SAME
j.hp less a
j.lk SAME
j.mk SAME
j.hk less a
f.mp more a, more r, unsafer on block, more adv on hit
EDIT:
Differences from Akuma's buttons:
cl.lp less st, more a, less hit/blockstun
cl.mp more a, MORE r, less hit/blockstun
cl.hp more st, more a, less r, safer
cl.lk more a, less hit/blockstun
cl.mk less st, more a, more r, unsafer
cl.hk more st, MORE a
st.lp more st, more a, more r, less adv on hit/block
st.mp more st, MORE a, more r, unsafer on block
st.hp more st, more r, neutral instead of -1 on block
st.lk more st, MORE a, less r, negative on block, less adv on hit.
st.mk less st, MORE a, more r, less hit/blockstun
st.hk completely different
cr.lp SAME
cr.mp more a, less r
cr.hp more a, slightly less hit/blockstun
cr.lk more a, less hit/blockstun
cr.mk lag kick: more st, more r, less hit/blockstun
cr.hk lag kick, worse in every way imaginable
nj.lp more a
nj.mp less st, MORE a
nj.hp less st, more a
nj.lk MORE a
nj.mk ridiculously MORE a
nj.hk less st, more a
j.lp more a
j.mp completely different
j.hp more a
j.lk more a
j.mk MORE a
j.hk more a
f.mp more r, +4 instead of 0 on hit
You’d have to specify which normal was in whose favor. (people who are reading it may not get it).
In comparison with Akuma’s which tend to come out faster, but have less active frames. Standing lk with Akuma comes out in 3 vs Evil Ryu’s 5 but it has less active frames as it is overall faster.
Evil Ryu’s cr hp is better than Akuma’s though. Same startup but Akuma has less active frames.
Ryu has different normals altogether, but his cr hp is 4 frames I believe and his sweep is 5. This opens up things like jap>sweep and cr. mp>sweep.
IMO the only normals I’d say Evil Ryu has undoubtedly better than his counterparts are his fst. mk and his fst mp (vs Ryu, Akuma’s fst. mp is faster).
The above were Evil Ryu’s differences from Ryu. I can do the Akuma thing, but Evil’s buttons are by and large the same as Ryu’s (just with better hitboxes) instead of being close to Akuma’s ones. The character itself is more Ryu-like than Akuma-like, anyway apart from aesthetics. I guess I just don’t understand the insistence on Akuma as a point of comparison when Ryu is much closer.
I know that, but I was comparing them both. He has some Akuma specials with a divekick, teleport, red fireball, and a few normals. J jk, sweep, cr hp, far st hp, f mp, etc.
Ryu and Evil Ryu share more normals, but Ryu’s normals are undoubtedly better. If you were to swap normals Ryu would drop a few tier points because he’d lose many of his options. Evil Ryu with Ryu’s normals (as long as he could axe kick combo as usual) might just be op’ed. Not sure though.
Or if you were just to swap the frame data and let Evil Ryu still do his axe combos. That would be too much though IMO.
Ryu’s normals are “undoubtedly better” in one instance: The sweep, which is an atrocious piece of suck and badness.
The cr.mk is worse standalone, but the followups and range make up for a lot. Still a tad worse, but overall simply much different in application. Ryu sweep and cr.mk enable him to hang in the mid range much better, where Evil’s game is more polarized to far and close, helped by hideous combos, better fireball game and longer-ranged normals. Apart from those two buttons, Evil’s buttons are on the whole either equal or better than Ryu’s for the most part.
EDIT: Differences from Akuma buttons edited to above post.
Ryu’s Sweep sucks? It’s a 5 frame sweep he can jab or cr mp into.
He has a 5 frame abuseable cr. mk that is a part of his game. Evil Ryu’s cr. mk is good for comboing into but mediocre by itself. Give Ryu Evil Ryu’s crouching medium kick and he’d do much worse with it.
Evil Ryu is better close suited to close or far though. Ryu’s fireball game is aided by his knockdown ex fireball and shinkuu hadouken (one of the best supers in the game). That super alone limits the options of many characters.
Evil Ryu could still do his combos with a 5 frame shorter range cr mk. I’d argue it’s more abuseable in that case. He could spam it a lot more and do more combos. So he loses a very important shoto tool. As a matter of fact he would have an easier hit confirm. He could cr mp> cr mk fireball, which would wreak even more havoc in closer ranges.
Ryu also has a 4 frame crouching hp. Giving Evil Ryu that would give him more combo options that he didn’t have before.
I think most Evil Ryu players would say that if Evil Ryu had Ryu or Akuma’s normals (or startup frames) he’d almost certainly be top 5 or at least top 10. If you gave Ryu the normals of Evil Ryu, I’d put him to the lower-mid tier margin, because he’d lose a lot of what he has.
The jabs and shorts are all similar give or take so they don’t need to be discussed much.