same. i’ll add you in a couple hours. Lets see if we can get somthing going on.
I’m game. I must admit my Ganon is scrubby as hell :lol:.
Lol well playing ganon or no ganon is fine any way. Mine’s not that great either 
If anyone is up for a game, or a couple of games, my FC is in my signature. I am trying to get better with my Ganon. I feel that I am pretty good with him, but I have not tested my Ganon against another Ganon in a 1 vs 1 bout. By the way, in reference to Swoops’ avatar, Deadpool is the man! 
I tried to give Ganon a chance, I really did. Now, I’m on the verge of giving up on him. He’s SO FUCKING BAD. I love to play him, but really, he sucks. They should have:
Gotten rid of landing recovery on empty jumps
Kept his old Down B properties
Given him better grab range
I’ll do a writeup later about how landing recovery on empty jumps, slow-ass moves, and crap throw range make many match ups unwinnable.
Yea I noticed that. They gave him unnecessary lag on his air attacks. When you do a full hop fair you still get landing lag even though the punching animation is over. It’s also like that with his dair. Although people argue that he didn’t get nerfed I think they nerfed the hell out of him, along with anyone else that was decent in melee.
Lol so you’re going to do a write-up on how unbelievably bad ganon is? Well that’s just being horribly negative.
I feel any matchup is winnable with gannon as long as they don’t have a projectile, even the shittiest projectile i nthe game can royally him up:sad:
Well, you see, Ganon really is horrible. Let’s say I jump at my opponent. The opponent should roll behind me every time. If I don’t predict the roll, I’ve done some aerial with big recovery, and get punished. Let’s look at what can happen even if I predict the roll. If I try a B Air, It will go active and I’ll land before the roll finishes most likely. Now, I could double jump and try D air or something, but that’s not very practical. Now let’s say I land. I have landing recovery, whether I did a move or not. Even if my opponent doesn’t recover soon enough to punish, the best I can do is shield. Guess what? I’ve just blocked an attack from behind, and can’t punish. This is the BEST outcome Ganon can get by jumping in. If I do Side or Down B, my opponent will certainly roll behind me and recover before I do (More so for Down B). If I run in, my opponent can again roll behind me. The difference from Melee here is that you can’t grab people out of rolls anymore. Ganon must play VERY defensively to even stand a chance. To top this all off, Ganon has terrible grab range, so his punishment options out of shield are decidedly lacking. To sum it up, Rolls > Ganon. I love Ganon, but he really is bottom tier. You have to be very unpredictable to even start an offense, whereas everyone else can just short hop to their hearts’ content. Yes Ganon’s mix ups are scary, and he KOs really well, but it’s SO DAMN HARD to even get hits in.
I understand most of your frustration, I really do, especially grab range. Don’t jump in that often unless your thunderstorming (I dont like the name, but its stuck). This is a very safe approach if you’re looking to approach. They shield, he has a big enough grab range to grab if you’re in front of them. You can also follow up with another dair, jab, gerudo, hell a lot of things. If your looking for more approaches there’s always his dash, which goes about the distance of gerudo, high priority, and strong as all hell.
Gerudo choke is safe (not in every instance of course, this isn’t a normal fighting game), no matter if they dodge, you can get out of followups. Wizard’s foot is a pretty good move I’ve found, but it’s only very punishable if they shield or roll out of the very end animation of the move.
Ganon’s mix-ups are godly. That’s why he needs to revolve a large portion of his game around them. Not only does he mix up out of gerudo well, but also OoS. Shield>lcanceled dair, shield>jab, shield>isw (instant shockwave, aerial wizfoot), shield>s-hopped gerudo, and in some rare cases shield grab.
He doesn’t have lag on empty jumps, it just looks like he does. Also, thunderstorming>rolls. I’m actually thinking of writing up a short ganon guide maybe, because I have a lot more.
95% of the time the only reason to jump at someone with Gannon is to do his thunderstorm or side-B. You should never do an aerial with big recovery. It’s just not worth it unless you are hitting air to air or hitting someone on a platform above you.
How do you play defensively with Gannon? He has no projectile and his moves have poor vertical coverage. If someone is approaching you and you throw out a poke there is a good chance they will roll through it or jump over it. He has basically no defense against jumping attacks other than to block, uTilt is useless and uSmash has a tiny hitbox.
To me Gannon is the Zangief of this game. Walk forward and use a combination of dodging, perfect shielding, rolling etc to get close and go from there.
Well, on the defensive side, uair is very good for anti-air. It has good reach, a lot of priority, and is surprisingly powerful at decent percents. Jab is very good defensively. Usmash really doesn’t have that small of a hitbox, and is kinda fast, but not all that great for defense. I’ve found he’s not so much defense (I thought he was at first) as he is reaction and getting in your opponents mindset. Which is why I like him because I was all about tech in melee, he’s the complete opposite.
Approaching wise, you’re usually going to be on the ground, with gerudo, dash, or wizard’s foot. Thunderstorming is always great to come in with, <3 stomp. Also, I’ve come to think that fair actually kinda sucks. It definitely has it’s uses in spacing, but ultimately its slow, and gets beat out by faster aerials. Plus it becomes less of a good spacing tool when its so laggy in every aspect. I’ve come to think of it like donkey’s fair in melee.
Its Ganon, not Gannon
I found out that you can do an instant wizards foot just press jump and immediately press downB and gannon doesn’t even leave the ground he just hits downwards kneeling on one knee to know you did it right.
I play aggressively with ganon using choke and dash attack as my main approaches, i know fair has a lot of lag but I use it more then I should because i love the incredible ko power it has.
After choke if they just lay on the ground i like to do instant SH stomp and then follow up with uair (dair has no lag if you do it immediately after SH.)
BTW uair is a very spammable move it has an incredibly large hitbox and it’s a good approach as well.
Yeah, uAir is good. Hits behind him also. Air to air Ganon is good from certain angles, although fAir is slow to come out. Air to ground I don’t find the uAir very useful. His bAir seems almost totally useless, it has a very awkward angle.
I find it very hard to hit with his uSmash against people in the air. They DI 1/2 character width and it whiffs. It’s not even very good against people on platforms above you. I pretty much use uAir instead.
I love the choke because it forces them to do something other than block, and once your opponent is weary of blocking you’re in good shape.
Also his dTilt seems to have really good range and it knocks people up which is nice. I was testing in training against Lucas and the range on it is much better than fTilt, not sure if that is just some weird Lucas thing or what.
Also I think a Wizards’s Foot immediately after a footstool stomp is unblockable but I’m not 100% sure. Has anyone tested that out?
There is NO reason why you should try to get in with jump attacks unless they are lag free ones.
uair: Amazing anti-air/platform punisher. Lag free short hop version is too good. very good for edge hopping back on stages. A MUST HAVE.
dair: one of ganon’s best moves/finishers. thunderstroming is a must have. Can rank up damage like no other. great for mix-ups.
fair: a POWERHOUSE. People who can be unpredictable and set up well with this ariel has a strong ganon game. AMAZING knockback if sweetspotted.
bair: great for mix-ups. Short hopped lag free version can be whiffed into anything. range decent, knockback good.
( All of these moves are great Finishers )
air gerudo choke a.k.a. ganonicide: obviously a great suicide move, good for starting a mix up chain, good recovery move.
air Wizard Foot: pretty fast, a lot of power, good K.O. move. Good for suprises. Can be done instantaniously, but only the move’s power splash damage will hit. Still very quick.
ganon isnt horrible at all. If you know what moves not to use/abuse against certain match ups/ situations, and play him unpredictablly, hes amazing imo.
IN ORDER TO PLAY AN EFFECTIVE GANON, YOU NEED TO BE KNOLOGABLE OF HIM. hes not a Mario or Meta Knight.
P.S. Projectiles do fuck his shit up. Short hop mind games/jab stuffing are working more for me then anything else.
Actually it’s Ganondorf. Ganon is his beast form. ;p
How do you sweetspot Fair?
I rarely jump anymore with Ganon. If I’m edgeguarding I’ll do a reverse uair, if I expect the opponent to sit there or try a wakeup after command grab I’ll do short jump dair, and if I need to jump over a projectile then I will, but generally I want to stay on the ground. Ganon’s jab, fair, and dair are great pokes, and in some matchups really make things more manageable. These moves deal reasonably well with a lot of characters’ short jump shenanigans, and alpha canceled dash attacks, down+b, and command grab do as well. Against most non-projectile characters I basically walk up, choose my spots, and zone the opponent out with one of the above attacks.
When I am facing a non-projectile opponent, I try to keep my back towards them. I do this to make them think. If they try to dash in and attack, I merely sidestep and hit them with the jab. If they try to poke me, I can either short hop forward or hit them with the bair. Since I have to chose my shots with Ganon, my strategy with him is to make the opponent hesitate with their attacks by stopping and thinking. That way, I am able to control the pace of the match while having counter measures established.
[quote=“JoeMasters, post:115, topic:38117”]
air gerudo choke a.k.a. ganonicide: obviously a great suicide move, good for starting a mix up chain, good recovery move.
QUOTE]
Lol I don’t like using ganoncide. I really don’t. You do it on DK and you die first. I don’t even who dies first in what situations. Just a stylish thing to do. But OoS air gerudo choke is fantastic. Just immediately after SHing out of shield >B. Probably the best thing out of gerudo (if you’re planning on roll chasing and not jab) is to hold up shield. There you have air gerudo, shield get up, or drop shield>anything.
Hit it with the ending animation of the punch, the bottom portion of the move.
I tried that a few times. Pretty cool, but does it have a practical use, other than not having to jump?
I’ve been trying to do this, but I can’t seem to do it. I know that the knockback is higher if you strike with the tip, but you’re saying that you can get even more knockback?