So wait let me make sure I understand this- This guy wants me to put a $2,000 (hell even $1,000 is ludicrous) bonus pot for a 6-man KOF tournament?? Is that what he’s saying? He wants serious bonus pots for NON SERIOUS players??
Is that what I just heard?
Now correct me if I am wrong people but does that make ANY SENSE WHATSOEVER???
I’ll put bonus pots on SNK tournaments for people like AI and Minnesota, El Paso and Mexico where you got SERIOUS PLAYERS and I KNOW people are gonna show up, I ain’t putting major bonus pots for 6-man tournaments of NON SERIOUS PLAYERS…
That simply makes NO SENSE whatsoever…
Webster- Yeah I also forgot to add Ohio my fault…xD
Desmond- The Melty Blood scene actually SUPPORTS THEIR HEADS…like I said everyone take a look at the history lesson and this is BIGGER THAN JUST ME…with the past people that did the same in the USA you had the SAME RESULTS…and they all have different personalities…different things piss them off, BUT SAME ASS RESULT…
So once again people you need to take a HARD LOOK IN THE MIRROR…MAYBE IT’S NOT US…MAYBE IT’S YOU!!!
>Do you think Mr. Wizzard, the Cannon Bros., Shin Blanka, Fugee/Galeon, Keits or anyone who spends times/money/energy on getting their respective major events organized, carried out, and accomplished - AREN’T WORKING HARD???
They’re working hard, but they’re also working smartly.
>You simply don’t like us, hence the statement. I could give a fuck less tbh. But all in all…before you open your mouth. Look in a mirror. Is all I have to say to you.
Yeah I don’t like you guys; I would have liked you guys if you didn’t make the scene a joke when it is already dead.
And yes I have looked in a mirror and I see a guy with a face of a Horse. I don’t see anyone that made the scene worse by actually “doing” something.
All I ask is to put a bit more brain into it. I have said it many times again just put more thought behind your actions (and you guys especially need to put tremendous amounts of thought in your words) and people wouldn’t look at you people like idiots and you guys could actually gain respect as well as applicants.
Work
and
Thought
Work and Thought. Is that so hard? I say I’m okay with hard work as long as you guys aren’t dumb about it and put some intellect into it then totally disregard that and say “you haven’t done shit, you’re not justified to say anything, we’re doing something and that’s perfectly fine regardless of any negative consequences that come about it, and we’ll keep doing it and continue to make a joke of the scene.” I’m not going to be nice or neutral just because of “hard work” when you people didn’t even put much or any work into any sort of thinking. I’m done with this. You guys wouldn’t even able to retort properly and I’ll just keep making attacks on those poorly designed counter-arguments only for you all to create more poorly designed counter-arguments.
I should thank you Webster and DG. I should thank you guys for setting an example of how not be as an individual and how to not run a scene. It’s this kind of stuff that makes me want to get out and do something or it’ll become further ruined by the likes of you guys. I am deeply, and sincerely grateful.
Laban did you read anything I posted…if anything I want you to read the history lesson that basically says the end stays the same DOESN’T MATTER who starts it…
As I said if three people with different thoughts, mentalities etc tried it and came to the SAME DAMN CONCLUSION…maybe it’s not us…MAYBE IT’S THEM!!!
Also Mr. Wizard etc have a different situation, they have games you know people play and support and come out for plus they have been doing this for over a decade in a country where the games they promote are the MAINSTREAM GAMES…like you know me in Mexico with KOF (Lest I remind you the Juarez National had 160 people)…so you’re comparing APPLES TO ORANGES MY FRIEND…
Hell I recall when EVO was considering having KOF in but not enough interest so once again SAME THING HERE NOTHING DIFFERENT. If people actually SUPPORTED THE GAMES EVO WOULD’VE HAD KOF IN BY NOW REST ASSURED ON THAT AS SOMEONE IN A SIMILAR BUSINESS POSITION TO UNDERSTAND THAT POV TRUST ME MONEY TALKS!!!
How about I get some replies from someone in Mexico trying to promote Street Fighter? I know of these people and they speak of the SAME THING that you have here with the SNK scene…people still play what they want!!!
The SF scene in Mexico is as big as the SNK scene in the USA…and it’s been that way for years and won’t change anytime soon…I’m sure they’d like a culture shock too of sorts but KOF is MAINSTREAM and thus it’s gonna take a big jolt like Daigo coming to Mexico or something for them to take interest and even then it’s just for that time!
I know of the time Justin Wong went to Mexico City Marvel players lined up to play him but it was still nothing overall compared to the 60 average players that enter KOF 2002 on a consistent basis…
Each country has their own identity…Not all are alike…as I say things are bigger than just the USA.
You cannot change what people like. If they do not like KOF they will not PLAY IT SERIOUSLY SO MOVE ON!
Just like someone trying to get me to play SSF4, I might play a match vs. Daigo for shits and giggles sure but do I play that shit AT HOME seriously?
Us making a joke of the scene is ENTIRELY YOUR FUCKING OPINION (and those who agree with you). Doesn’t mean you are right whatsofucking ever. We are even catering to the scene (with tournaments/events and shit). How is that being a joke?
There is a BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG difference between doing something and doing nothing. Wether if our methods are in acceptance with you or whoever…doesn’t change this FACT!
Sure I’ll bite and agree some of the methods we go about doing things could change…should change. But I strongly believe you HATERS out there (like you), WHO DO NOTHING…and have the nerve to judge. Should really chillax with that bullshit.
I’m actually done with this shit. Instead of you focusing on how we have gone about doing things (us being the perfect bad example apparently), why don’t you focus on what you’re going to do for the scene and encourge others who share similar interest to do so too.
Webster I got this he should read what I posted just above your post…as I say*** the man doesn’t know his history***…he’s talking from ONE POV…HIS…I am speaking on behalf of myself and on behalf of those that have tried to do the same shit as me in the US SNK Scene before (even got off the phone with ONE OF THEM LETTING THEM KNOW WHAT I POSTED AND THEY AGREE 100%) and on behalf of the Mexican Street Fighter community that deals with similar stuff because people PREFER KING OF FIGHTERS.
As I say man, sometimes until these people step OUTSIDE of their circle of INFLUENCE (AKA TRAVEL) nothing you say is gonna mean anything…
My approach to community building is more grassroots than what others are discussing. Whenever I have a fighting game gathering, we get in some SNK games as well as Capcom. When KoF XII was released, I held a contest on destructoid.com, a site I’m very active on, helped to train the new players and gave away copies of KoFXI, SNK Arcade Classics V.1, Fatal Fury Archives v.2 and even a NeoGeo Pocket color. A few players became fans of King of Fighters through this.
I’ve recently gotten in contact with my local SRK group and I definitely plan to get some SNK games added into the rotation as well.
I still dont know why its always our faults that the scene hasnt taken off.
A lot of the blame is on of SNK itself.
Capcom ADVERTISED well, supported the USA very well and thus sold more games and got more players here.
Now I am not familiar with oldschool SNK pre 2k1 etc, but there was very limited support in the USA and advertising since then. SNK’s ports to home consoles which became the dominant means to play were always subpar. On the otherhand, Capcom has a decent history with home ports and they got good advertisement in popular gaming magazines. I would see tips and tricks for various capcom fighters all the time in Gamepro but never snk. Only small side articles and semi reviews.
Even today SNK has been fucking up A LOT. Pretty much every XBL/PSN SNK game has some of the worst netcode, lazy menus and bugs besides NGBC as of late. KOF12 was to be their big relaunch and look what happened. Poor advertisement for an already obscure fighting franchise and some of the worst netcode in a fighter to date. 12 was pretty much unfinished, unplayable online with little replay value.
13 looks like a BIG step in the right direction. Also if KOF2k2 gets the NGBC netcode at least, things should look up. Hell when 98 first came out to GGPO tons of people started playing it (Americans) because it had good netcode and 98 is a pretty good game to boot.
Honestly, SNK’s last chance at a big turn around relies on KOF13 and NETCODE. This is huge. Street Fighter reboomed (the scene was declining for a while) thanks to the great netcodes of both HDR and SF4 and in turn sold well and brought in tons of new players.
I like the arguments, and the little history lesson. And in response to humbag. SNK did horribly in American markets. I have never seen anything SNK related in a magazine or any type of medium. The last SNK mention was in a Tips N Tricks magazine, but that was for CvS1.
Thank you sir for your contribution believe you me it’s not going unnoticed even by myself the man people say “At The Top that calls the shots”…I listen to everything you all have to say!
I agree 150% with humbag here he is absolutely correct SNK USA also fucked everything up royally here in the USA so people didn’t get to see the gems of these games until late.
I mean for example I recall SieClayton saying playing 2002 is like breaking your wrists and the ONLY way he would feel that way is because of A SHITTY PORT.
Arcade 2002 is easy to do shit with, but the ports are atrocious (The 2002 UM port of 2002 is arcade perfect THANK GOD BUT BY NOW ITS TOO LATE!). Me personally having played KOF 96, 97 on arcade I can tell you also Orochi Collection on the PS2 is SHITTY, so once again it’s SNK Playmore continuously making MY JOB THAT MUCH HARDER.
Well SNK did stuff for Art of Fighting all kinds of commercials but most were in Japan or other countries…so SNK Playmore USA has a large part to do with how their games are perceived in the USA…people probably aren’t diehard enough like diehards like myself to go check the actual arcade game and see the arcade version of the game has GOOD CONTROLS unlike the console port, so yeah they are turning away new blood just by having shitty ports!!
SNK was much bigger in the mid 90s but so were most fighters in general. But back then they were only a step down from street fighter and MK, yet a step up from everything else. My view of the scene in the late 90s is a little messed because I was in Japan at that time and half the machines I encountered were Neo Geo games, but I think that in the US this is around the time most people of the people who began in the mid 90s grew out of a large variety of fighting games, and started focusing on the new 3d games that were out as well as the games Capcom were making around this time.
Shit just go so fucked up after 2000 when SNK got sold off to that Korean company whatever it was but I think if they focus less on the bad things they have done in the past decade (mostly in the early part of the 2000s) and start making more quality games such as KOF 2K2UM and KOF 13 I think it is possible that they can get pushed back into more of a mainstream in the US, but they will now be a much lower level than what Capcom has managed to reach again.
Will SNK ever be huge in the US? Hell fucking no, those days are over. Arcades are dead and the new players aren’t really trying anything else other than SF4. Tekken 6 did not pick up a lot of tournament level players in the US. A lot of the older games are only being played by the old players still holding on. But with Capcom probably releasing a few new games, I think what may happen is that fighting games could get a true revival… not just new players who only want to play SF4… to try different fighting games and find other games of the genre that they enjoy, and it could get people to want to try KOF13 and whatever SNK pumps out after that. But then again who knows.
If you play in the US it’s probably online, or you have a local scene that coincidentally happens to have a handful of players who are into KOF, or you live an in area that has one of the few remaining active arcade scenes… and that’s just how it’s going to be.
I think the people who are into those games are just going to have to be patient and see if KOF 13 will bring new players. I think if it’s truely a good game then it will. But the new (SF4) players probably see the trash like 12 and SamSho Sen being shoveled out and just don’t want to try anything else made by SNK.
We actually have quite a few players in our region willing to play KOF and other SNK games already… but somehow this was overlooked by the OP.
Trying to build a scene for a game is great and all, but just like Street Fighter builds a lot of hype off Daigo representing Japan, you’re not going to break out of being a “casual” scene until you somehow start involving players from China. To get people hype for your scene, you need the best players, and as far as I know, they’re pretty much all Chinese. KOF might be popular in Mexico, but off the top of my head I can’t even think of any Mexican players who are even halfway worth mentioning.
The way you’re going about it now, you might as well advertise “Hey guys, come watch me and my casual friends mash in this random-ass game.” No one wants to watch a tournament where none of the players are any good.
Without corporate backing or sponsorship, i’m afraid the KOF scene in the US would probably only get as big as the Melty scene. And without arcades, theres not really a hub to play and get better. I’ll do my part to build AI’s scene, but my time is far more limited now than it was last year.
Hey guys, this is the part I hate about the scene so I’ll be very brief.
KOF XIII is a great game and has a lot of potential so lets all focus our energy in making this game what KOF is about in the 21st century. Contributing to a fighting community is tough job (belive me I know it) no one here has to show respect or whatever, please just see the effort and time that some people put in to this so that other individuals can enjoy the game too.
Only reason I hate Dark Geese is because the Game of Death footage is no where to be seen.
But anyways, you know one thing I think would help the KOF scene? More streams of at least mid to high level play. I know there aren’t many tournaments out right now but I feel that streaming gaming tournaments is the new thing for any form of competitive gaming.
Think about it, when Youtube first hit the scene, it opened a large window for people to see new tactics and high level play. I’m sure everyone here has spent time on places like YouTube just watching all of this unfold. Right now though, we are at a point where streaming live video is taking off and is already the new trend when it comes to gaming on video.
Something tells me DG, that if you did not have the streaming probs you did for Game of Death, you would have easily seen a lot of people looking on and would have shown interest in all of the SNK games you guys played during those three days.
But like I said, that’s just what I feel would be a big step towards getting more people to try out the KOF games or even games like Garou, LB2 and FFS.
This hits one of my biggest concerns with a lot of the current efforts so far. Its always the one person dominating over to rest to the point where its not even fun. Sometimes its better for the person to step out of it and let the field of play even out (even if it causes the quality of play to go down) that way there’s not a crazy catch 22 situation which kills any interest in any matches.
Bit of a question/suggestion for Dgeese:
I’ve seen some of your tourney vids on the youtube page. Are the dvd’s all hand cams?
If so that’s been a bit of a deterrent for me. not a knock at all, high lvl KoF+ play is pretty sparse, but I was wondering do you have any plans to up your production values?
Perhaps streaming some events, like Spooky/levelup game nights? Its seemed to go well for the Melty scene and definitely worked for the Capcom scene. nothing Fancy to start just footage, some names and some mics. You seem to have the time, rep and energy. Maybe get some of the other top players you always talk about to get together for an exhibition or something. Good play and some srk front page advertising -they’ve advertises worse streams- will get thing started. Some one’s gotta be the first to step in the ring.
Whatevs
Maybe you could make a trip out to AI and have a streamed 1st to 10 with Mr KoF in 13?
But I say this not disrespectfully but as someone that has travelled- Have you been to Mexico? Have you seen these players at all? This goes back to I hate it but unfortunately that Circle of influence type of thing- meaning in a nutshell people only know what they have seen and without knowing it disrespect other countries.
Part of the wild success of JuareZ WarZone 2010 and Game of Death is due to me capitalizing on the very belief that you subconsiously said about Asians being superior to Mexicans in KOF, I capitalized (and am continuing to capitalize on that hype) on that and am doing it again in 3 weeks to show people yet again that they need to get out a travel more, the world is more to it than just Asia, and I understand this POV, as me and Emil were saying online I can see how people see it that way, esp. if they see Asians winning all the time at EVO, SBO, and the ONLY things they have seen…but this ONLY goes off what people have seen, meaning they need to travel more.
If people didn’t wanna see Mexico vs. Japan that bad trust me it wouldn’t have had that much hype about it would it? People are now beginning to finally give Mexico the credit they deserve realizing that they DO have skill, you may not know Kula from Abraham or Esteban from Alexis, but bottom line is they are very very highly skilled players, perfect for us Americans to play if we need competition.
I agree with this it goes back to SNK Playmore USA, and I understand you help the scene alot too my friend, as we said at EVO last year we should certainly combine our efforts.
Agreed 100% with what Oscar said, KOF13 is our hope we need everyone behind it 100%…we need to put our differences aside and unite behind KOF13…
LOL I hear yah man I’m pissed as all hell believe you me that I didn’t have the Game of Death footage sooner but that’s okay because I should have it tomorrow/Friday and it buys time for All Versus meaning you all practically will get a nonstop stream of videos to dissect for the next month plus. I assure you the problem with receiving the Game of Death videos will not happen again rest assured, I do not like waiting a month for receiving videos that is not how I operate.
So rest assured All Versus 2010 vids will be uploaded like the day I get back from Mexico (some of them) that way you all can start dissecting and the flaming lol/hype will commence again.
But at the same time the person that “guy” that is dominating is playing could argue why doesn’t his competition STEP IT UP?
For me personally why is it the only time I feel like I gotta break a sweat is versus AI and Mexico? Step up your game is what I say!! Hence I focus on AI and Mexico as far as competition and that’s where I get most of my views, just like in KOFXI when I’m playing vs. Kane9999 I know more are gonna view than if I am playing MightyMar, I’m not stupid I know I’d watch the matches with higher competition than the ones that don’t have it.
I know everyone is gonna watch the Game of Death footage (When I get it dammit), and of course the All Versus 2010 conglomerate of footage when I get that as well.
I think DG and Webster are doing excellent jobs repping the SNK community. Their views seemed to be different, but I agree with both of them. Like DG said, if you want to get better at KoF, you do have to travel at this point. I remember hearing him say that to someone else at RS in Chicago, but that burned into my head. Since then, I’ve been traveling taking on the best the midwest has to offer. Now I’m headed for Mexico to take on the two countries best. However, I don’t want to abandon the US.
We have a good thing going right now, and don’t need to fuck it up because of a few haters want to talk, but never want to walk.
@Laban: I don’t know who you are, but before you start talking some shit, you need to earn your stripes like everyone else here on this forum. I’ve never touched GGPO and I think I do pretty well. So just because you play online, doesn’t mean you’re good. Come to a REAL tourney and find out how deceiving online play can really be.
Right now, I can’t believe the shape KoF is in here. At one point, KoF was up there if not better than SF. Those were the only 2 games that stood neck and neck with each other. I think the reason why KoF doesn’t get the respect it deserves is because of the people running the SRK forums and major tourneys. It has nothing to with the game, it is because they’ve played it at some point and have taken some serious ass whippings (especially Keits). So after that, they want to hold a grudge against the games and downplay them like they never existed at their major tourneys.
This is how I see it. And if you’re a TRUE KoF fan, people will still be playing KoF XII. Even though KoF XII wasn’t what people expected, it is a good fighting game. The online play may suck, but the gameplay is awesome and functions well at tournaments and casuals. And when XIII comes out, we’re gonna hype machine the shit out of that. Even though there’s assholes out there, we can’t give up on America because there’s people out there who do care like myself and want to get better, but can’t afford to travel out of state.
We forget about these people which is why we need to keep doing what we are doing because we’re showing good progress. RSMN was a success and there’s also GnG championships. @Desmond: I won’t be at GnG championships, and RSMN2 is postponed so there won’t be any local majors for a very long time, so I think you, me, and possibly Derrick should put our heads together to get something going in the meantime. I definitely want to contribute to getting SNK back to mainstream status. What do you say? Let me know.