Every Fighter Is Cheap - p1

Let me first say that I love SF4 and SF4AE.
My first fighting game which I took seriously, and actually became quite good at it - at least based on points. YEAH - points mean nothing, but you know what? What else does? When you have tons of people at 1000 or 2000 bps potentially kicking your 10k+ ass… YET - what if they just got lucky?

I am tired of hearing “points mean nothing” - you know why? Because if those players were good they’d make it over 10000 or 15000 themselves. But they dont. If BP isnt of interest to those “rising stars”, then why are their player points (irrelevant to fighter - but an overall measure of performance, for those who dont know) also below 3000? And to be fair, 3000-4000 PP and 15000-20000 BP, is still only scratching the tip of the iceberg, if you are on the PC league like me, and play with a keyboard, while you know that console players or fighting stick owners are a whole level above you.

Well then, now that we’ve cleared this out, here is why every fighter is cheap. You can call it - each fighter’s “Strength” instead. Or “Advantages”. Or “Unfair advantages”. Or why they are awsome. I choose the word cheap because I believe that this game (which I love) kind of relies of cheap techniques or gamestyles so that ‘pros’ can stand out. Once you mastered your character’s cheap technique, tappy tap away!

Without further ado:

Abel - With his 2nd ultra, you are fucked. Jump all you want, block, or stand still. If that gay looking wrestler times it right, this is the end. And dont forget his roll into 360 ex which will knock out 1/5 or 1/4 of your heath.

Like overhead attacks? well too bad, because Abel easily grabs enemies from air.

Like jumping? his 180 roll ex kick will put you out of your misert.

Adon - That underrated dude can be the most annoying fighter, if he spams Tiger kicks or their EX versions. Those take priority over most moves.
And lest we forget the vertical jump near your face, into quick throws.

You’re down? he’ll jump up like a clown, land with a kick as you get up, you block, he throws with a maniacal laughter (so annoying).
If you block and he doesnt throw, he’ll keep jumping up till he’s ready to catch you off guard.

If you cant teleport out of this, or if you dont have a Shoryuken up your sleeve, you are probably fucked.

Akuma - Cant have many complaints against good old Akuma.
He can mess you up in a corner easily, perform unblockable special move aerial throws (unless you dash out). His ultra actually seems one of the most fair in the game. It has such low priority that you can punish it, if you arent caught of guard, or didnt just complete a move that requires just a tiny bit of cooldown. I feel for Akuma, really.

Balrog - That motherfucker! Ohh - mr. I cant kick. Thank GOD he cant kick too.
This is because his punches are long range, and will always make you fall.
Headbutt -> juggle into an ultra is his usual shit, but other than that, he’s a good guy :slight_smile:

Oh wait… I forgot how Balrog players like to jump and land with a high priority punch in your face.
Cheap ass Boxer… :frowning:

Blanka - Dont get me started on this one!
Hoppity hop hop, hop around you, electricity or jab. Did you block? Thats alright, hop into throw usually works. Did you block that too? Blanka ball (horizontal or curved) in your face.
How about jump and land with high priority kick?
Or that ultra 1? Well, its not as bad in AE to be fair. But if you are a noob and dont know how to block it, you sir, are fucked. Your advantage flies out of the window. Blanka ball ftw!

C. Viper - The hottest girl in the game, imo. Redheaded, big chested, big camel-toe’d. Tight. And those alternate costumes? God damn!
But she is still a cheap slut. My only beef is the overhead cross attack while you are down or standing. Its sort of hitting you from both directions, and you cant do much about this.
Also has an unstoppable bullshit attack: slide-electricity -> overhead attack -> slide again -> repeat. Alternate into a throw.
Gotta have respect for players that pull of the aerial combos into the ultra beautifully though. But the rest is bullshit.

Cammy - #3 hottie. That tight ass staring at you. Usually we skip fight intros, but never when its with Cammy, am I right :slight_smile:

And still… skilled players will mash out the same 6 moves combo - something like punch, leg, leg, jab, leg, cammy’s spiral arrow. This deals massive damage, and skilled players always find a way into this combo.
If you like overhead attacks or pretty much be in the air, think twice. Cannon Spike (no shit!). Most bullshistic move, that takes priority even long after its done.

Chun Li - #2 in my books. Which is totally cool. I just have a thing for big tittied redheads.

What can I say? Despite being a legend, dearest Chun has:
Bicycle ex - cant attack overhead, or have to think twice.
Unblockable string of ground attacks, if you try to parry.
If you block everything she’ll still get you with a deadly low kick after the combo, or an overhead jump to end up on your other side… throws you. If she doesnt, the said ground-jab-combo game starts over.

Lets not forget EX legs into ultra 2.

Ultra 1 will work accross the screen and will fuck over any fireball user.

Lastly, air grabs prevent you from safely jumping around.

Basically, a skilled chun just wont let you have a normal ground game. Air is the only option, but its risky.

The bicycle EX protects her from aerial attacks. So you always have tight games here. She’s a good match just about anyone. Maybe those things that I call cheap, make her a top tier fighter after all.

Cody -ha ha! Criminal upper! ha ha! Slide, slide. You’re boring the crap outta me.

He is a descent fighter, all in all, but sooooo annoying. The slides are imo the worst. Slides with Cody can easily work their way into throws, or his EX Criminal uppercuts. And those really are the #1 problem because of their high damage. A good cody player will always abuse them to the max.

Dan - Serious Dans should be taken seriously. Seriously…
In all fairness, he does not have too many cheap moves. I can actually only think of one main - the aerial jump that ends with an unstoppable knee. As his other means of survival, he’ll rely mainly on throws which come easy after a string of non EX hop kicks - those that end up right in your face if you block them. Then comes the throw.

Dee Jay - Mr. fucking music =.

Nothing really stands out with this guy, except the SLIDES (which end with up with a combo or a throw). I wish all slides were removed (Bison’s too, even though his is the most self-defeating one).

Also, happens to have the best unbeatable anti air Air Slasher. If he has an EX bar. Still, not recommended, as a good DJ player will always find a way to mess you up. Stick to the ground game? Not a problem, he’ll spam fire…beats? at you ad-nauseum, and then will slide some more to finish the business.

Dhalsim - check Bagelobo on youtube.

I respect this person and this is not a criticism in no way. He is the best Dhalsim on PC as far as I know. He just perfected Dhalsim in the sense that he abuses every cheap thing that this fighter has to offer. So this isnt as much about Bagelobo, but rather about what Dhalsim can do to fuck you up, if used properly:

  • Knee or medium punch - cant attack him from the air, as those 2 will override any attack. Even most EX’s I believe. Even if the EX gets through, Dhalsim’s knee or medium punch (simple functions at first glance), will always scratch the opponent.

  • Can be aggressive both on ground and in air, from a safe distance, no thanks to long kicks and long arm jabs. This is obvious, but soooooo frustrating. Unless you pick a fast moving fighter to corner Dhalsim where he’s vulnerable, you are pretty much playing a losing game. He’ll always bounch back, float in the air, will avoid any fireballs and will jab you from a safe distance. If he’s desperate, he’ll teleport behind you and will rape you with SUPER.

  • Dash for Dhalsim means avoiding most attacks, as he sort of slowly glides under most attacks (most attacks or throws dont even register with him, and I believe it has to do with how deceptively slow the character moves, while his hitbox may be not in sync… but thats just my opinion). He glides under attacks and then throws you.

  • The throws… somehow, his always get you, but yours never get him.

  • His Focus works in mysterious ways and has very long lifetime. What usually happens in a corner, is a pro Dhalsim pre-reading a focus attack on you, while you jump up and down trying to avoid some of his slow shit like fireballs. You land down - WHAM. Focus gets you - > Ultra 1 ftw

  • Ultra 2. Just saying. Even Bagelobo switched to it seeing how effective it is. You cant do anything against it, unless you teleport out (if you can), or start jumping “just in case”. But trying it with Dhalsim who is a superior punisher of ANY UNNECESSARY MOVES, if you are on ground or in the air, is generally a bad idea.

Save your best moves for Dhalsim, and fight back as best as you can.

His most useless move imo is the Yoga-Flame, where he shoots fire into air. Its slow and counterable, unless its the EX version.

Dudley - most “fair” fighter I’ve seen so far. And maybe thats why he is not that popular.

I can only think of his Shoryken as a cheap move, but all Shorykens are.

Can have a very successful punching into more punches combo, but thats not an unbeatable attack or anything that reaks of unbalance. Rather, thats just skills.

(and no, I dont main Dudley. I just find them the most “fair”)

E. Honda - Campers heaven. Thats all I can say. Sit in the corner, wait. Wait… WAIT! Launch!
In your face. And when they feel intimidated they start abusing Crashing hop (I believe he yells “Crashing Panda” like a little bitch) - regular or EX. This move and the arrow attack are both damaging and high priority. The arrow attacks can punish air attacks, or just punish someone who tries to camp it out too.

El Fuerte - mr. Random Bullshit.

  • Unstoppable Tortilla head twists abused like there is no tomorrow

  • Endless throws gameplay. Slide -> into throw, to be more precise.

  • Jump-across-the-screen high priority crashing moves

  • Unblockable Ultra1… oh man. That used to be the bomb in SF4. For some reason, not seeing many El Fuerte’s in SF4AE.

Evil Ryu - not a lot is known about him, except that he is the “bad” cheap version of Ryu.

But he is actually less abusive and cheap that Ryu. I usually feel sorry for Evil Ryu’s. Here they are, trying to play with a badass looking character, only to find out he pales in comparison to nicey nice Ryu??!
Cheap moves? Maybe only the high priority Shoryukens. The rest is combos, and props to those who pull them off regularly.

Fei Long - not much, EXCEPT:

  1. sliding while fisting (that sounds just dirty) -> into throws or dragon kicks (“take cover!” who the hell is he always warning?)

  2. rolling kick jumps -> into throws or dragon kicks

  3. vertical jumps to catch someone off guard and… -> carry on into throws or dragon kicks

You are always intimidated by this guy. Never a moment of peace, as long as the Fei kicks on sliding and throwing.

Some Fei Longs pull of very nice combos into ultras, now that I can respect.

Gen - That hapless old man. I used to think he was one of the most cheap in SF4, but now it doesnt seem this way anymore when we have his students in the game.
Dont see a lot of Gens around in AE.
His only most cheap move is hoping around you and footsies to knock you down. But once you master to block that, its not an issue.

His Super followed by an Ultra are very damaging, but really, how often can they pull it off? (well yea, I guess pretty often).

Bicycle kicks are perhaps the most cheap, in the sense that they are very high priority. If he starts doing that (looks like he’s crouching and dancing polka while climbing the air), just forget it. Even if he is almost done, let it go. It aint worth it.


Carried on…

Gouken -Funny how perceptions change. Again, just like Gen, I used to think he was pretty cheap in SF4. The throw into ultra 1 is still cheap imo. Ultras shouldnt get handed out so easily, and lets face it, most players get plenty of chances to throw. Another thing that pisses me off is the aerial - special - attack where he flips over, makes you fall half way, and then crushes on your face. You cant anticipate it as that old fuck flies accross the whole screen. The only way out is to dash out.

Another cheap tactic they’ll use is some form of an aerical focus diving attack, which lets them land near you. They mainly want to end up close enough for a throw, into the Ultra 1 scenario.

What sucks about this particular techinique is - since its a focus attack, punishing it with a regular move wont work, and will still let them finish this move. You’ve got to EX the shit out of that old man, or just step out.

Guile - on par with Dhalsim and Honda. Really.

Campy and couch comfy good old turtle Guile (but his theme goes with anything, except fucking playing against a Guile player!)

, Air slicing bullshit prevents aerial attacks. Also he can abuse air-grabs.

, ground game sucks because of his double kick attack, or overhead punch,

, Sonic booms keep you at bay

, THE AIR GRABS. If anything is REALLY cheap in this game, it must be this.

Oh man, holy Jebsus. The fucking grab will cancel anything. If you are in the air - whether you are attacking regularly, EXing, or even doing an ultra half way in the air, Guile’s air grab is there… so you better be aware.

Guy - a pretty “fair” fighter imo.

2 things that are cheap -

a) his EX spinning kick will cancel out any air attack, but thats ok, as its more of a defensive measure.

b) that roundhouse jump-kick across the screen, which combos nicely into further combos (or bullshit like the revere elbow)

Hakan - Likewise, cant see anything too cheap about him. Even though he’s the only one who can move while performing the focus attack, I dont see it overused. Perhaps has a cheap ultra that catches off guard anyone’s attack from above (where he rubs himself with oil in a totally straight way, lies down and then performs attrocities with his foes). But thats defense. I think he is pretty fair, which is why he is not popular.

Ibuki - One main cheapness:

can create an unstoppable string of attacks (which are not even combos and do not link), but if you are only blocking in one direction, you are fucked. It takes some experience to learn how to counter it.

Juri - Not much to say about her, except that she looks good in her bikini mods.

I’d say the air slicer spinning thing is kinda cheap (because it has high priority and can be abused multiple times), but thats her main move.

Ken -
Ryu - Doing those 2 together (to save time, and because they are such good pals. Bastards).

Aerial basic kicks take crazy priority - good for defense and offense

Aerials landing with punches = crazy priority. Ditto.

Ground game - crazy priority with jabs, or light kicks into combos.

Of course - the heavy Shoryukens take care of aerial attacks. Light Shoryukens will counter just about anything because they have insane priority.

Their weakness is actually the air game, but they have good counters if you are overly aggressive.

M. Bison - My favourite main Bison. And yet, I get frustrated often too when I see the following from other Bisons:

  • Ultra 2 fucks you up if you dont block it the right way. Usually its safe to block forward in anticipation that they’ll land behind you. But what if they land right on front of you? Thats just one of the many things you have to guess with a Bison.

  • Ultra 2 can catch you on wake up too.

  • Psycho crusher - regular or EX - will mess you up on wake up, now available in AE. I love this move, even if its cheap, but sure feel the pain when others do it to me. Just block forward. But again, how do you know if they’ll try that instead of a regular high kick? in that case, you move forward towards a kick.

  • That high kick. Makes Bison one of the best ground game fighters. You can tap it all day long, or the medium kick (if they are crouching), and you’ll cancel their EX efforts, jabs or jumps.

  • Footsies into bicycle kick. I dont rely on the footsies, so medium kick and BK just do fine.

But you can see “pros” abusing this like there is no tomorrow. This is probably the #1 reason Bison is hated so much.

Makoto -Ultra 2. Just that really. How many times have I lost to average Makoto players just camping it out in the corner, on low health, with their U2 charged up. I try to scratch my ballsack, unblock… and … Then she (or he) gets PMS, yells some bullshit like “Abare Tosanami”, flies like a dart across the screen.
If you are ever so lucky to block all of that, Makoto’s face will be red (as they all get after PMS :)), and he/she’ll have very high priority of attacks for a few crucial seconds. So even after you blocked that gay ass ultra, you cant do shit. You cant punish, but have to wait it out like a wuss. Whats the deal?

Oni - Bullshit Shoryukens are the only ones really. Insane priority there.

That and the “shhhiiaats” (not sure what its called) move, where he slides and flips you over and can easily combo into an ultra. Of course thats not a terribly cheap move, if you block it right or just jump over it. But when it gets you, you are done.

Rose -
Slides into easy throws, Slides into combos.
Throws you in the air, throws you on the ground.

Ultra 2 can be very cheap if used properly. All that chip damage from those balls…

Rufus - this fat fuck has a girlfriend, as he likes to state in many of his victory screens.

He just has to rub it in my face, now doesnt he? As if I give a damn about …

Oh, pardon. We were talking about cheap moves?

Oh yes. Well, Rufus is just a motherfucker. The quick jumps that glide down which he can output - I dont know - like 2-3 per second. What can you do about it? Try to throw him? He’ll jump some more.

Those annoying tornado twists that go into ultras are his thing.

Sagat - no point to discuss him. But 3 main things make him extra cheap, despite being nerfed in AE:

a) the fireball spam

b) the perfect anti-air game.

c) very descent in close ground game thanks to tiger knee.

Those 3 arent really moves, but their combination is a common way to win.

My Sagat is at least not guilty of a)

Sakura - that highschool girl who always seems surprised to win. But why should she?

I cant think of cheap moves (maybe because its been 3 hours at this writing), except maybe the occasional vertical jump - to try and trick you into a combo. The problem is - her combos are very linkable. So a skilled player would just mash out a combo or two, and will juggle into an ultra.
“I wont lose, and thats right” - that one. Ultra 2 sucks imo.

Seth - Jaded noob gamer. No moment of rest. Every close encounter is a guaranteed 360. Everything is a combo, or a trick (much like Ibuki masterfully links unlinked moves). If you know how to play cheap, do your best against a skilled Seth.

T. Hawk -more like T. Cock! Those cheap bastards… I have no words. Its like a flying Gief, thats what he is. Fly horizontally, or diving attack - doesnt matter. His main goal is to end up close enough to you for a 360, or that gay ass overpowered Ultra 1. Keep them at bay, where they should be.

Vega - Forget ground game with jabs if this is your thing. Vega’s crouching simple punch is quick, is long range, has top priority (except maybe Ryu’s - he’s got priority on everything).

Also the super is BAD. You get caught up in that super, and you cant do shit. You can get caught in it while on ground, or while in air trying to avoid it.

That super will fuck you up!

Yun - gay. Bah, sorry. Just getting lazy. Those 2 and Gief!! I really wanted to do these descriptions for a long time, and then I’ll never post anything else. Thats a promise.

Yang and Yun are the worst, but Yun is the trully worst. Daigo mains Yun these days and thats simply testament to why Yun is the cheapest.

Both of them are very intimidating at close range, but suck in the air game.

But the thing is - you will likely not even make it to the air game if you play skilled Yangs or Yuns.

They will always keep the pressure on you with endless easily linkable attacks.
Jump-glide down-link or throw. And on and on and on. Until you are cornered. By that point their EX meter is full so that can safely activate it and rape you in the corner with even more linkables leading up to ridiculous combo counts (30+?). Good game.

Zangief - hasnt changed much. The larriates are still one of the highest priority cheapest moves in the game. Whats daunting is the Ultra 2 that AE has to offer. Air game is your game? Good luck with a Gief that specializes in that ultra. He’ll cover the ground game easily and will be safe and happy in the knowledge that you wont try aerials because of his Ultra2.

So this is it! Never doing it again, lock it, or delete it, or love it.

The time you spent typing this would be better spent learning matchups or in training mode.

also, lol @ dudley’s uppercut being cheap.

Points DO mean nothing, because they are weighted towards grinding more than winning. Not to mention boosting makes the existence of points irrelevant.

Just sayin.

Now that you’ve got a list of complaints about each character. Why don’t you put some effort into finding solutions for these problems that you have with these characters? Part of the beauty of fighting games is that there is a difference in ability between each character, which inevitably produces strengths/weaknesses, some of which people would consider “broken”. The meta-game gets created when you find the most efficient strategy per a given matchup, and more importantly, it gets CHANGED when people stop sitting on their ass bitching about it, and actually go do something about it.

If you want to play a perfectly “fair” matchup, go play Ryu mirrors all day long.

Pretty good read, thanks for the smile late night. :>
"Slides into easy throws, Slides into combos.
Throws you in the air, throws you on the ground.

I expected some kind of joke thread taking the piss out of scrubs.

Instead I found a scrub who is lost and seems to think he is posting his topic on Capcom Unity or Gamefaqs rather than SRK.

I play with a keyboard too.

I really dont mind playing against any player noob or pro, using whatever methods they like.
even if I lose to cheap tactics, finding a way to overcome them is always exciting.
Even if I am demolished by a pro, doing even one move that knocks out its main character boosts confidence.

but the fact is I prefer fighters with no BP or PP. I guess this will become a trend nowadays with online gaming.
have to get used to it.

with every game you gain something even if you do not realize it.

thanks for your detailed opinion and information. cheapness exists in every game though.except maybe chess. no tricks or luck there.

I also think that certain characters benefit more by using a keyboard. Keyboard users could have a better boost had PC fighters been more popular as in the 90s. After that we had to get accustomed to emulators who would not utilize the keyboards full potential…I even shared a keyboard with my opponent as we were cramped side by side, playing Mortal Kombat and other fighters…

Petran, you’re right on the money.

and Iduno, you are the scrub who cant get a joke thread right. Grow a pair and get a sense of humour.

Not really feeling this thread, but I wanted to take the opporitunity to just say that I think air throws in this game are completely retarded. Beat EVERYTHING air-to-air and are untechable. Complete nonsense. Especially Guile’s, sweet Jesus. For a character that already controls ground space so well to have a move that works that well air-to-air is just stupid.

/scrub complaints

Guile’s airthrow is actually one of the worse ones now. They reduced the range on it and I think possibly the hurtbox size grew.

If your character has a move that has a regressed throwable hurtbox, doing that move preemptively should blow up air throw 100%.

I believe Claw has the best airthrow now.

Worst Abel description ever.

I thought they un-nerfed it in 2012. Sure feels that way when I fight him anyway.

I thought joke threads were supposed to be funny

Guile’s airthrow can be actually dealt with well with Bison.
Just gotta bait those out with devil reverse’s. Then at some point they’ll stop doing it, and then you can start head stomping

anyway fellas, I’m not a regular here. take it away… My job is done…
I wanted an exhaustive list, and I did it. Anyone who didnt like it, kiss my ass :slight_smile:

they unnerfed the startup. Back to 3 frames.

What exactly are “easy throws?” Are there harder throws? What makes one throw “easier” than another?

You think this game is cheap please go play an older fighting game

This is terrible.
You’re terrible.