Yea I don’t think match vs Gief is that bad tbh.
I actually was experimenting u2 throughout the tourney but obviously I got bodied for it but ill def see whats up and thanks for the reset
I think characters with very fast mobility to get across the stage is very bad against but I like using it against fireball characters for example if they throw a fireball from 3/4 of the screen ill reversal ultra 2 to get life and take the hit of the fireball when it reaches me
I never used HP MS i used the MP version idk why tbh but I like the lynx tail just so people can be aware that I can do that. As long as it gets into their head then let the mind games begin ya know
I think Elena does very well in the guile match up because since he is always d/b you can abuse overheads all day and it shouldn’t be a problem just because even if he blocks ex mallet smash its not like he can do a flash kick combo I think so you can take a lot of risk and his fadc isn’t safe so keep that in mind also
Meterless options for pressure I like the qcb k move even though its punishable not every character can punish it seems like from a good range and just poke with easy overhead damage with f+mk
So after messing around a bit more MK dp trades into super ultra ex dp and ex hcf k. I haven’t tried other stuff yet like HK dp but she can get some some good shit if mk dp trades.
that video is really refreshing to watch. Nice to see Elena with all that potential, but kind of hard to put in a match.
Here’s my input on elena:
It’s true that most of her specials will whiff from a certain distance. thats why i think elena’s BnB is meant to be cr.lp, cr.mp xx EX MS to start things off. It adds a little more damage, but it’s main purpose is to put her closer to her opponent, so she can cr.lp, cr.mp xx M SS, or s.lk xx EX lynx tail into U1. You can even buffer it into cr.mp outside of poking range, which is really useful as it beats the shotos cr.mk. With that in mind, elena is dangerous in the midscreen footsie game.
if that’s the case, then Elena is going to be pretty meter dependant, seeing how most of her other bnbs are too risky to go for.
her st.lk xx L lynx tail is a pretty good poke, but it’s -7. she’ll be pretty far out, but still punishable by most characters.
her m spin scythe is also quite negative on block but again, she get’s pushed out pretty far so not as punishable. this is a good way to get her super in, since the first kick of spin scythe bring her close to the opponent before it starts to whiff.
I dont think elena is meant to be a rushdown character. you can try to get a CH st.RH when your applying pressure, but youll most likely get some trades on the way or get beat. what i like to do is poke a bit with cr.lp, then shimmy around a bit. a couple f.mks as overheads, some sweeps, and maybe try to get a EX or H mallet smash in. you can also try frame trapping with L lynx tail. its pretty unsafe, but pretty fast too. other than that, youre gonna wanna lockdown your opponent in the mid range game, and make sure they dont start their offence.
Just me, or does neither of Elena’s jumping target combos work? Tried them in the training room, and every time I do the second attack in the combo, it doesn’t connect at all, almost as if the hitbox just doesn’t exist.
God, I’m still just getting clobbered left and right, left and right. Losing constantly, over and over again. This is so god awful frustrating.
The MP -> HP combo definitely doesn’t work, that’s for sure.
Whether she’s high tier or low tier it doesn’t matter. I love this character. Is her 3S incarnation similar at all? I only played Yang/Yun in 3S.
…and just like that I’ve flip flopped on my outlook on her again LOL. She’s polarizing to say the least.
I feel like she doesn’t play anything like either her 3S or SFxT self, but that’s probably just me. I mean, yeah, she was all about mix-ups and long pokes, but they actually had some weight to them and gave really decent rewards.
In 3S specifically, the throw game was very important to her. She had a great Kara Throw, the throw had great range even without the Kara Throw, great tick throw with st.LP (0 on hit and block, which made it perfect for tick throw set-ups), fast recovery, etc etc. That was definitely one of her defining features. I can’t really see that that aspect of her has carried over into this game at all.
Much like in this game, all of her specials sucked outside of the EX versions. Unlike this game, though, she was able to build meter by whiffing normals. Considering you were going to be doing a whole lot of fishing for cr.MP, this wasn’t a big deal, you’d end up building the meter pretty quickly. In this game, though, it feels like you are always on empty.
Anyway, chip data?
LK Spin Scythe: 8, 8, 5, 5 = 26
MK SS: 13, 13, 8, 8 = 42
HK SS: 15, 15, 8, 8 = 46
EX SS: 8, 8, 8, 8 = 32
LK DP: 15, 10 = 25
MK DP: 20, 15 = 35
HK DP: 15, 8, 8 = 31
EX DP: 15, 8, 8, 8 = 39
LK LT: 15
MK LT: 18, 15 = 33
HK LT: 15, 5, 5, 8 = 33
EX LT: 10, 3, 3, 5, 7 = 28
LK RH: 10, 10, 10 = 30
MK RH: 13, 13, 13 = 39
HK RH: 15, 15, 15 = 45
EX RH: 13, 13, 13 = 39
LP MS: 15, 12 = 27
MP MS: 18, 12 = 30
HP MS: 20, 12 = 32
EX MS: 10, 10 = 20
Super: 13, 6, 13, 6, 13, 19, 19 = 89*
Figured I’d do something productive instead of just face planting myself in random’s fists. I remember someone said Combo meant for EX MS to be a good way to chip, but clearly it’s actually one of the worst options for chip.
In just this night alone, I’ve found myself in many situations where I just needed chip to finish my opponent, but I didn’t know the best option. Maybe this’ll help others too.
I definitely feel you on that one. I was super salty all night due to close calls and her getting beat out with pretty much anything. I did score some wins but I definitely lost more than I won.
Anyone have any matchup advice against ONI and Yun? My biggest complaint is that he could just dp the entire round for free and my punish is very limited. I’ve heard Oni’s normals isn’t that good but it seems I’m getting stuffed everywhere even mid range. The DP problem is worst for ken cause he can get full damage from any normal I poke at him. I can throw but the damage doesn’t add up and the one frame link combos is hard to score online. It’s not too bad somehow but I wish I had a better plan besides , “I hope he messes up.”
And for Yun? He can just do whatever he wants. I don’t have an answer for it. Especially with ex dash punch frame advantage. Anyway any advice would be appreciated.
Same here but somehow i got better i think it was the match up experience like i didnt know that most of Adon attacks just whiff on a crouching Elena thats awesome so i think when i get that done for all 4 charc it will all make us better players to an extent.
Sorry i go alphabetical so my MU thread only at Akuma cause it takes me a while to lab up the characters but here what i have on my personal notes as a quick go to for Yun/Yang
Yun
Oni
Thanks for the MU notes!
Some comments though:
Thanks i’ll make those changes now and yea I assumed that U2 would be cancel for the most part but i will put a note to that in the thread and here and also you are correct i only got so far in my matches because i can U2 heal all the damage away to help me win bad MU
I made a U2 setup section in the combo thread that goes through safe U2 setups, but since you’re doing a cancel, there are a lot of different ways to get a U2 setup past getting a back throw. For example, other than a few characters in the game(coincidentally Yun is one of those exceptions, heh) you can get a U2 cancel setup off her basic BnB (c.lp, c.lp, c.mp xx mk SS) and you cant be punished. For characters who can punish it replace mk SS with EX SS instead. So there’s a ton of extra utility off U2 as you’ll get many situations where you can use it. I actually think UCD is a very good option in many cases and picking just U2 is only useful against grapplers, since you can get setups that allow you to get a full U2 without being punished.
Thats perfect i’ll be sure to include some of these set ups for the MU notes i’m making
I’ll be adding another list to the combo thread for this, but I’ve been testing and can sorta understand why some of specials are so negative on block. The reason, is because if you utilize them properly they’re actually safe. For example on any character in the game that has an 8 frame or higher sweep Elena can get in free chip damage at any time off her mk SS. So you can do something like c.lk, c.lp, c.mp xx mk SS(no extension) for free chip and of course if they press a button during that time complete the extension. The same goes with pressuring with her lk LT. This means only characters with fast sweeps like Ryu, Gouken, or Akuma can do anything when cancelling into her specials. You also reset the neutral game in a favourable position for Elena(just outside of most characters farthest poke).
My mind is once again changing for this character. I believe if her strengths are utilized correctly and you space her correctly to make her unsafe stuff safe she can be very strong. Unlike other characters though her strengths are not immediately apparent as she’s not a pick up and play character due to her lack of autopilot and very high execution requirements. Think back to Gen in all previous iterations of SF4. Your Elena may be weak now, but just grind it out with her and the results will show!
