Trust me I’m not latching on to this character. Look at this avatar son I’ve moved on day 1 lmfao. I’m just saying when you have one of the more productive character loyalist in 1 game completely drop a character in another iteration that speaks to how bad the character is. And the whole post was made in general to reply to everything said (by you and others). Why quote what Justin Wong said if the frame data was already posted and says otherwise lol? The only thing we definitely agree on is that she kinda sucks. But some of the stuff you say is off and I feel like I should correct you on it.
Her normals? Not really, but you also give up a lot of momentum once you use them. But it’s not just negative normals it’s really every single issue together that makes her really bad. If you cancel her normal into a special at anytime depending on the character it’s a gamble as to whether the full thing hits or not. That whiff then leads to when your opponent punishes you have low stun and weak reversals. That leads to being unable to keep them off you under pressure and if they jump every AA is a risk and trades aren’t in your favor. It’s just a downward spiral.
Alright point made, I’ll try to figure something out but yea Elena not climbing ranks anytime soon if anything at least i can know that the capcom didnt give me anything when i get some wins after a crap ton of losses.
You know that if you win with Elena, you beat the player completely and you didn’t just beat them because of the character. I guess that’s something to be proud of right…right?
It’s funny because that’s exactly how I see her as well. The way they are perceived from people that have little experience with the character is similar"(s)he’s very good, you’re insane if you think(s)he is bad!" Even their frame data is similar in terms of how almost all their normals are negative on block. They were made for each other.
Whats up guys. I know there has been a lot of Elena talk about if she is good or bad so I want to shed some light.
She is def a character that outplays your opponent with no bullshit factor and all. I understand that a lot of things are unsafe and punishable but you don’t have to use it. She can poke very well with cr.mp (which stays hella active so buffer into ex mallet smash all day) st.hk and st.lk
Now she wins by reading your opponent and also making your opponent flinch with both of her overheads and slide and cr.hk which are def very reliable IMO.
I haven’t tried to find setups yet so we shall see about that even though I don’t see setups at all but its always nice to have right?
Random EX Mallet Smash is always the preferred way to use the move because its really hard to react too so you will have to take in consideration of risk and reward.
Her flaws are obviously low damage, special moves not working full screen, ultra 1 shitty priority and a lot of her combo starters and specials are -4 at worst but those can be worked around with.
For example: cr.mp into HK breakdance move(sorry i don’t know whats its called) fadc into ultra only works on standing opponents. pretty shitty but u can focus level 2 and then ultra. So its def something to look into about her flaws.
Her biggest factor is that her hitbox is like WTFISTHISBULLSHIT. Thats where you take advantage.
Couple of things that work on normal characters but don’t work from my knowledge.
Viper CR.MK into MK TK - whiffs on crouching elena
Guy Elbow drops whiffs on crouching elena
Balrog dash straight will whiff against Elena when she does cr.lk
Cross up tatsu whiffs if Elena crouches
Honda jab hands last hits of the hands will whiff
You can punish after all of these. Im sure there is a lot more but the game is new and I hope you guys will share more info as you guys already are but lets keep the Elena Struggle alive
We Will try Justin we will try we all love the Elena very much and will continue to look for new things, your post was very informative and gives us hope cause we were really lacking it right now thank you and good luck to your future tournament success with Elena hopefully
gj on 3rd with elena @ wnf man. gief looks hard. it’s scary to surprise ex mallet him because u1/spd punishes for more than you get on hit; you actually can’t do any version of mallet smash because u1 punishes for free.
i watched you get hit by whiff hand into ultra and you seemed pissed. haha.
how do you feel she does v. other keepaway / footie chars (rose, chun, guile, vega)?
how do you plan to keep pressure on yun / cammy / guy (chars w/ strong abare crouch tech) since elena only has one move w/ +frames on block (c.lp)?
how do you think she does vs. rufus? (match that other footise chars like rose / chun / vega are notoriously bad at)
Extremely wrong. Very few characters NEED 1-frame links, they have several other options and normals to do decent damage. The only one up there that is close to “needing” a 1-frame link is Rufus for his optimal BnB, and if he fucks up you simply block tornado for chip. Elena on the other hand NEEDS, as in REQUIRES, perfect 1-frame link execution to do damage unless you use bar, and if you do not perfectly execute the 1-frame as you go into a special you will be punished. Very, very, very, very, very, very, very, different than 99% of the characters in the game and every single one you listed, which do not REQUIRE nor NEED 1-frame links. All of the characters you listed have extremely easy and rewarding two in ones that are extremely versatile and some can be extended if they want. I cannot believe you listed Cammy up there, that is just sickening. I’m geniunely appalled. She could win without half her normals, 1-frame links are even less of a concern.
If you provided Abel as an example, maybe. He NEEDS one frame links, dunno if he does in Ultra, and look where that guy is in tiers.
Hey Justin, what setups do you use for u2 besides off of a backthrow, and what match ups do you think you shouldn’t use it at all? I’ve been able to bait some ultras that would punish it by just canceling right away and blocking but I’m not sure if its reliable in all match ups.
Here is a setup/reset I’ve been using every now and then that has surprisingly worked pretty much every time I use it. Off of a hit confirm into ex mallet smash, cr lp cr lp cr mp cancel into hp mallet smash instead of whatever finisher you would use. Because its coming in off of a hit cr. mp there is a lot less time for the opponent to hit something that would knock you out of it, and as long as you don’t get reversal’d then you’re -1 at worst.
hey Justin, grats on the WNF performance. I did notice you used her lk Lynx Tail(The breakdance move lol) a lot in some matches, would you say it’s still a useful special if used wisely to make the opponent respect your low game? Also in what situations would you use HP mallet smasher instead of EX? I did notice you bust it out on occasion during pressure instead of EX even though you had the meter for it.
fei has (or at least had) to hit c.lk into c.lp to hit crouchers at /all/
ryu has to hit 1f links into sweep, c.hp xx srk after rush punch, both are crazy unsafe if you miss
rose has to hit 1f links for c.lk into c.mp, same as cs.mk into c.mp (all her combos), drills are unsafe
makoto has to hit 1f links for literally every single combo (slp into smp, smp into smp, shp hc smp, etc.), all specials are unsafe
cammy has to hit 1f s.hp into c.mk, c.mp into c.mk for optimized extensions
guile has to hit 1f c.jab into c.mp xx flash kick, mega unsafe
eryu speaks for himself, jeez
you will not survive in this game w/o hitting 1f links consistently
Hey man I’ve been having a lot of trouble with the Guile matchup, so easy during the loktest now it feels like the matchup reversed completely. Any tips?
Also, any meterless options for dealing with pressure?
all of these except fei are either plinkable, or have alternate options that lose a tiny bit of damage (10-20) for consistency, and some even fall into both categories, where if you miss your plink you still get a combo for slightly less damage.
if you’re bummed about the plink just map select and shift over like all the other cheaters.
vega has to hit multiple 1f unplinkables to even be a contender. i’m sure there are others that i’m missing.
anyways, this is getting really off topic. my point is that 1f links are important in sf4 and good players just get used to them. complaining about them is so 2009. elena’s is harder than many others but it’s learnable, so get grinding.
Hey guys I am currently in the lab trying to go through the entire cast and see what Elena can do in each MU, it would be awesome if you all could stop by and pitch in or see what i already have up and either confirm or deny that it works or not.
