Elena’s slide isn’t bad but it’s not good either. It’s fairly mediocre. You can’t use it to punish fireballs reliably and what I mean by that is Elena’s hurtbox doesn’t shrink fast enough for it to go underneath most fireballs when at mid range. It comes to you anticipating a fireball more than you simply reacting to the fireball when you’re playing the mid range game. Didn’t know about meaty slide beating DPs though. If that’s legit I’ll keep that in mind for the future.
Yup, I found that out the hard way. 
Elena is definitely ass, but it seems like this entire sub forum is in the extreme minority lol. Everyone says she’s top tier, and you’re looked at like you’re crazy or a scrub if you think otherwise. (doesn’t help that jwong plays her I guess) and it will be funny in the next 6 months when she is finally considered bottom tier and they ask themselves why.
rufus
fei
ryu
e.ryu
rose
makoto
cammy
etc.
EVERYONE needs 1f links to succeed at anything beyond online play vs randoms. this statement is total bunk.
elena’s low options are just bad because short -> jab is an unplinkable 1f and you have to commit to it immediately (into another 1f for c.mp). it’s hard but good players will get it. oh yeah, and anything you cancel that c.mp into better hit because they’re all unsafe. haha.
it’s not unlike vega c.lp c.lp c.mp xx whatever.
This is her problem, that she needs an unplinkable move just at the most basic level to even be scrub tier is terrible. Somehow that attack string isn’t hard for me to get down at all, but I think that’s mainly because I’m used to doing it with fei long and his rekkas on crouchers. It’s her other unplinkable 1 framers that are hard for me like fwd mp, c.lp or st.hk, c.lp
Yea its a really useful tool the way i tested it was forward throw -> dash forward -> waiting until last standing animation and then Slide. If you do it earlier they can dp but just right and it will destroy all wakeup options perfect against people who mash or like to press buttons.
Okay, can someone give me some matchup tips? Specifically Guile and Sagat. Guile especially, though. Matchup seems nigh impossible to win.
Any matchup notes would be good, though. Literally the only character I feel sure to win a fight against is an Elena mirror match. Every other fight I feel I’m at a significant disadvantage.
Sagat: DONT SLIDE (duh lol) i learned that the hard way, Sagats that arent tiger uppercut happy usually lock low so after knockdown hit them with the f+mk overhead after 1 or 2 times they will start to Dp everything thats when u bait DP and punish with cr.mp -> mk.SS for damage or any punish combo u want. I know i said dont slide but i do it at least once to let Sagat know i will slide his high tiger shots to make them watch their toes for easy overheads. I posted this above but there is a set up where a meaty slide on the last wakeup animation will beat all wakeup options that are above 3f. Ex RH does ok in this match up i use it against the fireballs when they want to chip me and it also makes sagat respect me more. I cross up a lot with j.mk in the corner to get damage in and get a free U2 setup (dont recommend to do it often if the opp DP happy). I usually use U2 in this Match up so after a backthrow i get a free heal.
I get that Elena is hard to play, and her bnb’s are 1 frame links. But what makes her bottom tier? She has a good walk speed and good footsies, that alone means she’ll never drop below mid tier.
She has a good walk speed, good backdash, good AA, can do damage, has a decent dp, but because shes difficult to play shes bottom tier?! Come on. I’m also not saying she will be top tier. Elena is gonna lose to mashing and is gonna have a hard time with dive kick characters (but who isn’t). I think she’ll be mid tier, if some good tech comes out for her maybe mid-high.
Slide is focus bait and the characters I play don’t even have to worry about RH EX or otherwise since it just whiffs them during their focus animation. And if it doesn’t beat block into dp what’s the point? Most players outside of scrubs that spam dp on wake up would do that anyway and then you eat a full combo. Who would even spam dp if you see Elena sliding? And against that type of player you could just work with st.hk to blow up crouch techs or do nothing to get your HK RH, EX RH, EX DP combo when they whiff a dp. It’s an okay move, but it’s not great.
In fact, this is what I said about it
“Slide: Pretty good, not as amazing post nerf, but it can be made safe and it’s really easy to utilize against slow fireball characters. Just don’t get predictable otherwise you eat a level 2 focus attack.”
I don’t want to seem like a dick, but I wish people would read before saying something. Honestly, you sound like someone who is latching onto a top player saying something instead of seeing what is plainly in front of them. Terrible frame advantage = low frame trap potential. Almost every move can be punished on block. She hasn’t much to open people up, and on top of that you fall out of her moves frequently. Normals that would be amazing if their weren’t negative on hit and needed to be canceled into specials that are unreliable. Virtually no low game as a result of god knows why. I remember blackadde arguing that she had no low game in xT and I could see where he was coming from somewhat in xT, but this I argue is even worse, because I see almost no reason to block low against her just stand and focus or if you don’t want to to any guesswork just counterpick with Sagat and throw low tiger shots all day until she uses her floaty jump to get DP’d and then throw more low tiger shots. Play Juri? Same thing Low fuhajins. Play Poison? Throw HP fireball full screen with it’s great recovery until she commits to a slide then cr.lp > st.MK combo.
TL;DR Easy way to fix her give her more advantageous normals so she can frame trap with purpose and give her better hitboxes on her specials at the very least if they are negative on block the whole thing should hit.
It’s not because she’s difficult to play and it’s certainly not links. You see there is a certain point where you realize the character just isn’t good and it’s not about hard to use or links. Example DJ.
Examples of a newcomer done right = Poison, Decapre. They have great frame trap tools amazing normals, solid walk speed and at the very least you don’t drop out of their moves. Imagine playing cammy and the only button you can use is cl.hk to defeat your opponent. It’s just like that where every hit depends on your opponent not pressing a button since it’s punishable on hit. In fact something as highly regarded as a comboable overhead every newcomer has that even Poison and her’s blows up crouch techs. Decapres doesn’t blow up crouch techs but it’s still comboable. She has an instant air EX spiral arrow that leaves her at +9 for 40 chip or you get 320 damage with her dp followup off the juggle.
She has virtually no frame trap game, alright AAs, no DP without meter. Trust me, I played Elena in other games and I still play her in XT. She’s not mid high; she’s mid-low at best. Out of all the changes she got the only reasonable one I feel was the one to her slide’s advantage she shouldn’t be +2 on block of a full screen move. Everything else was a panic button change.
@the7k Dude once IMO I think that match up advice isn’t good at all. Because Sagat has no business throw high tiger shots in this matchup and he has no reason to respect EX RH or slide. Just low tiger shot all day and it’s a hard counter as you can’t slide or EX RH. It’s IMO almost 9-1 but I’ll be more conservative and say it’s like 7-3. Honestly all you can do is focus dash through fireballs and punish with a grab or cr.lp. That’s it. If you do backthrow healing setup he can easily EX Tiger into tiger cannon unless you cancel it.
Just no…
Half the benefits you mention just aren’t true
Her AA are ass they either trade or miss entirely or the timing is so strict that you will probably lose anyway
Her DP imo is probably tied for 2nd to worst DP in the game, it is too slow has no invincibility at all unless you use EX version and even them they can safe jump it.
She does mediocre damage and all come from 1f links that you have to commit not plink
I agree with the backdash its really good but a good backdash doesnt get me out of OS and some moves.
As mentioned many times before her footies are ass we have been over this the frame data even shows she only has 2 good buttons and one is 0 in block which means we get nothing off it, i will give you the reach is good but thats nothing if we’re -8 all the time.
The fact that she will lose to mashing shows she is not mid tier
Elena is terrible on paper with or without tech
If someone doing good with Elena, thats the player and not the charc cause the charc not given me much.
elena has no reliable AA (low damage, usually trades v. good jumpins) and no working meterless dp. even ex dp often whiffs the launching hits on standing opponents outside of point-blank range. having above-average footsies means nothing if you can’t convert or force the opponent to press buttons for you to hit.
here is my long rambling post in the tier thread:
well you come off as one anyway cause i have been saying the same thing as you -____-
All i’m saying is that there is potential in a lot of her moves if we can find it see my post i say the same thing the frame data for her sucks and i know it.
I see that i’m suprise you didnt read that at all.
Stop latching onto the xT version its not gonna happen
Besides you and I can be more productive then play this game of “how shitty can Elena be” we both know shes bad
I understand a lot of her stuff is negative but is it really possible to punish some of her normals when they’re down at max range?
Make sure to cancel that heal if he has Ultra stocked, I did that once and got blasted by his Ultra Tiger Shot.
It has to do with the spacing like a max range sweep is pretty hard to punish from what i see it helps alot imo in match ups that are bad and a well spaced cr.mp can lead to some stun or decent damage combos with using meter of course
This is a great write up on Elena’s problems. Somehow though I think it will land on deaf ears. People are way too hypnotized by jwong picking her up to notice any of her glaring faults. Expect early deejay super/ae2012 talk of, ‘you’re probably a scrub and not playing her properly.’
Also her BnB whiffs on Chun and herself at all ranges? If so I’ll add that to the growing list of characters her BnB whiffs on. It also doesn’t work against a crouching cammy and yang. What’s funny is that the variation to remedy this problem also comes with problems of its own in that it only works on these characters if you’re relatively close to them when crouching. If not the last two hits of her HK SW will whiff allowing them to punish you with whatever they damn well please, including ultra.
Alright, so I was testing out some OS to punish backdashes and I found that its really easy to combo into U1 by doing j.lp > j.mk, U1. You can mix it up by doing j.lp into s.lk xx EX LT, U1. Both of these are extremely hard to hit confirm, especially the later…but then again they are pretty much unreactable mixups into U1.
Also, the OS I was doing was j.lp > U1/df.mk+hk. If j.lp hits you get the target combo, if it whiffs you get U1 or slide.
I whiffed a cr.MP on Zangief (I thought it would hit but it was just outside of his range) and then he did a special throw and it hit me. Which means if just outside of cr.MP range he could grab me, hit could definitely grab me if it blocked at max range.
Yeah, that’s pretty much how the Guile matchup feels too - I mean, yeah, you can slide under a Boom, but you have to predict it well in advance and even if you successfully predict it, he recovers so fast that the slide can get blocked and then you get punished. He can basically just down-back all day and anytime he sees an overhead, he just does cr.anything (literally anything - even low sweeps beat Mallet Smash while it’s well into the air). About the only option I’ve got left is to grab him, but good luck getting into grab range.
This one is true Gief SPD range is pretty damn good and so blocked normals which are almost all negative will lead to an SPD i find that i need to approach carefully and j.hp is my AA basically when i see Gief jump and i try to throw/ U2 if i need the life or have to take big risk, i usually overhead him after a knockdown and i use slide often to punish backdashes from FA and whiffed normals.