Haven’t seen the video yet, but Ibuki can punish MK Lynx Tail with Ultra 2 (unless FADCed).
Mixing it up with LK Lynx Tail confuses things, but it’s still possible (albeit tricky) to OS something before the Ultra input so it only comes out against the MK version.
Edit: Sako isn’t actually spacing the MK Lynx Tail safely. Nearly all of them are at a sweep-punishable distance, but the Ibuki player often does it too late. Whenever you see Elena do a Lynx Tail and then block Ibuki’s sweep, it should have been a punish but the opponent messed up the timing. When Lynx Tail is performed from a safe distance, an attempted sweep-punish will whiff.
Also the reason for not just relying on the LK version is that the shorter range and pushback makes it easier to sweep punish.
Bonsho Kick is far from a good idea. It whiffs over Elena’s crouchblock. Free whiff-punish combo; 2 bars = 360 damage.
(Edit: cr.MP xx H.LT (3rd hit fadc) HK, cr.LP, cr.MK xx H.LT)
But it beats all of her buttons and it’s plus on block+ it crushes lows. And I dunno how it whiffs since it hits straight down. Unless I’ve mistaken the move name? Anyway I meant the overhead.
Bro you’re like a one trick pony.
Give it a rest. =|
Edit:
[details=Spoiler]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZelHx0ER0I
Nvm I just saw this. I guess Dee-Jay is viable too and Poongko played the matchup properly. No one passed the memo to me. Pardon my ignorance.[/details]
Yeah because one match = a set that’s a hour and a half. That logic is amazing bro. Her f.mk is 25 frames if that’s the move that dominates Elena idk even. Plus that guy used over head alot and Sako blocked it a lot. I’m questioning if you even watched the set bro.
You have no idea why her overhead is potent. It’s not because it’s super fast and going to hit someone. It’s a safe way to create frame traps while beating lows. People who get hit by that aren’t paying attention.
I said he didn’t know the matchup well I showed a match where Poongko didn’t play the matchup well and lost. It doesn’t matter if it was 5 minutes of gameplay or 6 days, if you don’t play the matchup well then expect to lose until you figure out how to play the matchup well .
He didn’t punish very many if any spin scythes even the poorly spaced ones. Hell even I manage to do that and I’m not a great player. He kept trying to cr.mk it instead of st.mk. He was better off trying her F+lk xx qcb+lk. It’s very evident that he didn’t know the matchup as well as he should have, and that’s not to discredit the Elena player (Btw you don’t even know if that was Sako nor does the uploader as he stated and I remember a while back people thought Sonyono was Sako, because people like to assume) and that’s on the Ibuki player to learn the matchup. But that doesn’t mean the character is suddenly better. Poongko losing to Dee Jay doesn’t mean Dee Jay is suddenly better. And let’s suppose that was Sako you have a high level player vs another player who I’ve never seen at any EVO, who can’t even punish unsafe moves at unsafe distances that are -6 and -10 respectively? At best he was trying a just frame punish and at absolute best it was an iffy 2 frame punish if he plinked it the input. You can tell after he saw cr.hk worked once he kept going for it. How is this empirical evidence that Elena is in a good place? Look at her tools compare then to other solid low tiers and you see a similarity. And more importantly watch how anyone who knows the matchup approaches her and you can see the difference.
But like I said before LUCKILY for Elena despite being a watered down version of many character archetypes a lot of characters, a lot of characters are watered down so disadvantaged matchups aren’t as terrible as they are in other games.
Also notice he played exactly how I said I think her best chances: save meter play extremely solid and rarely rely on her high lows. Every time he went for an FADC combo he had a super or enough meter to fall back on an EX DP. But just disagree with this you’re finally up there with socraticclown
Aside from the list of whiff fixes, I’d like to see forward overhead link loosened. I know Sako was hitting it like it was nothing at Evo, but… but…
A nice while not overpowering buff would be the ability to safely focus cancel Mallet Smash.
On top of the hitbox fixes I would love to see these changes for Elena:
st.lk +1 on block instead of -1
c.lk +4 on hit instead of +3 on block +1 instead of 0
f.mp +4 on hit instead of +3
s.hp hitbox expanded downward greatly OR cr.HP special cancellable
EX Mallet Smash -2 on block instead of -4
EX Rhino Horn hits crouchers
All versions of Mallet Smash have a slightly smaller hurtbox during airborne frames
EX Scratch Wheel strike invincibility reduced 7f>5f
L/M/H Scratch Wheel strike invincibility added 0f>3f
I completely agree with those changes onemic. That’d make me more than happy and would help with almost everything I’ve been complaining about. I don’t even need cr.Hp special cancel, and I’d trade that for more damage on st.mp.
If you cut her damage output by about 10~15% and implement the following:
st.lk active 2>4f, hit adv. +2>+4, block -1>+1
st.lp more juggle potential
st.mp more juggle potential, both hits sp.cancel
st.mk more juggle potential, hitbox as close to cr.mp
st.hp sp. cancel, target combo sp. cancel, lower hitbox
st.hk more juggle potential
cr.lk block 0>+2, chainable
cr.lp block +2>+3, on hit +5>+6
cr.mp more juggle potential, active 5>6f
cr.mk hitbox slightly forward
df.hk more projectile invincibility
b.hk block 0>+1, hit adv. +1>+2, active 4>6f, faster airborne frames
f.mk active 3>5f, more juggle potential
f.mp startup 20>17f, block -2>-4f
Mallet Mash more juggle potential, across the board active frames 2, 2>5, 2 and put targets into float state if Anti-Aired, smaller hurtbox
*LP block -7>-2, hit 0>+2
*MP block -5>-4, hit
*HP start-up 27>31f
*EX on hit +4>+5
Scratch Wheel(DP), simply give her some invincibility
Rhino EX more juggle and float state
Bonsho Kick is Ibuki’s split kick (f+HK).
Her overhead is better but it’s really not that hard to deal with.
Slow as hell. Block on reaction.
Too slow to catch light moves unless said moves are hugely delayed (such as with wakeup crouch tech). For the most part just recover and block.
Kinda bad outside of blockstrings and meaties. At footsie range it will hit Elena if she’s crouching, but whiffs when Elena leans back into her stand-block animation. Whiff = LK xx H Lynx Tail punish.
Elena’s st.HK = ouch.
It’s a good move, but it hardly wins the match. Especially if you incorporate Elena’s st.HK, st.MP and even st.LK into her footsie game rather than just poking with cr.MP all day like an idiot and buffering Mallet Smash in case it hits.
Also the Ibuki in the video did use it quite regularly, especially towards the middle of the set. It worked something like 3 times out of about 50 attempts. It also got whiff-punished a few times.
"He kept trying to cr.mk it instead of st.mk. He was better off trying her F+lk xx qcb+lk."
st.MK doesn’t work against L Spin Scythe, even point blank. The recovery is lower to the ground than the other versions. It also doesn’t work against a well spaced M Spin Scythe. f+LK doesn’t work against a spaced M Spin Scythe either.
He was using cr.HK (not cr.MK) because it punishes any version of Spin Scythe at any range with a knockdown or air-reset.
Aswell as the hitbox fixes, from her specials connecting properly and her target combos working properly i would like:
CRHP to be 5 active frames from 3, I think its 9 frames start up and it would just be nice to have a solid anti air normal
CRHK to be 5 active frames from 4, also 27 frames recovery from 30 frames, this move can low profile but alot of the times the move does not connect and i feel that the recovery is just too long.
Slide kick to go under chun li’s fireball.
STHP to be 10 frames from 13 frames and also to hit crouchers.
All versions of RH to have faster start up, the HK version to be -1 on block and the ex version to hit crouchers.
All versions of MS to have faster start up except EX version.
FMP to be 15 frames start up and 80 dmg FMK to be 10 frames start up and 60 dmg.
slk to be 0 on block and 3 active frames.
the startup frames for f.mp and f.mk are fine as it is. I consider f.mp akin to Ken’s thunder kick, just that you can combo out of it. then again if EX MS wouldnt get buffed then those buffs do make more sense.
Her RH just needs a complete reworking. I’m not even sure what I’d do with it other than having the EX version hit crouchers. I guess buff the damage too because 50dmg for a move that costs a bar is pitiful.
I forgot one other buff that I would really want:
c.HK -10 on block instead of -16
It’s absurd that this move is so negative on block, anyone can punish this no matter how well you space it.
But I would like it!