I’ve been thrown out of both :hk: attacks too many times :sad:
Good ish on the airborne frames for s.:hk: and Round Arch, I appreciate it! Getting more and more comfortable with Round Arch and its applications. I just want that CH bonus MANNNNNN
As for s.:hp:, I feel like that move doesn’t go airborne at all despite the animation. I could be wrong, but I don’t feel like gambling with that move either way, hahaha.
Xero, I’ve rarely been thrown out of either :hk: move, but I have been thrown out of H Scratch Wheel, which is REALLY weird. I think I’ve got the replays of those matches still. I’ll try to upload.
My hate is directed at the character somewhat, but it’s mostly at prof because he’s annoying and he keeps saying she’s not bottom tier.
Pandora’s box opened
Her normals were commendable and you couldn’t punish her off of everything or lose momentum for pressing a button, and even though her specials sucked her EXs had purpose her st.lk tick throw was amazing because her st.lk had 3 frame start up and was +4 on block. Contrasting that, in this game she has cr.lp that is non chainable and non a TBS as a substitute, and on top of that her throw range is ass given her walkspeed (I would have it at least at 1.0f-1.1b) so that she could at least have an alright throw game.
Speaking of throw range. Let’s imagine another character from 3s with a move that beats throws…Dudley’s short swing blow and let’s imagine capcom making that move forward on start up and not making it throw invincible on startup. Why would capcom do something like that? It doesn’t make sense and that’s essentially what they did to B+HK that was used to move her back so she could punish throw attempts forcing them to whiff AND move back out of range so she wouldn’t be right up in the opponents face where she could possible be beaten out by a cr.lp. Why’d the make it move forward and give it no throw invincibility on startup…? Why make it slower than st.HK when both moves where supposed to be similar but moved her differently? It’d be like having Guile’s F+MK and B+MK have different startups and one being much less usable.
OH and her overheads were 11 startup and 15 startup and she had universal overhead. Hell she didn’t even need a 15 frame mallet smash because you aren’t ever going to hit a damn thing with if that you wouldn’t with a 20 frame one I’d rather a stronger EX one that’s slower than a terrible 15 frame one. Her damage potential wasn’t dependent on st.hp which is a horrible normal past present and future. And the simple fact that she could whiff normals to build meter made her more potent. Oh and she had working dps.
You can’t make a character around meter and then limit their meter gain and make their meter moves rubbish and you certainly don’t have a character with a 27 frame overhead that loses to lows and make them -1 meanwhile Ibuki has a 25 one that leaves her + crushes lows and combos.
xT? Same deal 3f st.lk but -2 but the hitbox and payoff were amazing. Lynx tails were OP frame data wise, but hitbox wise they were amazing. Cr.MP fucking linked into itself and so did cr.LK and her mallet smashes were positive. So she had a low of normals that were positive and gave a lot of momentum. OMG and all her target combos were worth it. They fucked her B+HK in xT as well but it stayed in place and st.Hk moved her forward instead which was amazing as hell. Oh and she had working dps
Tl;dr: This Elena is missing more positive moves, better overheads, a better tick throw game, a correct B+HK that doesn’t move forward, better st.mp, better st.lk, an Ultra that doesn’t trade, better specials in general when it comes to hitboxes, and functioning target combos oh and functioning dps before she can be nearly as good as how bad Elena was in 3s, SFxT Elena would be a dream within a dream.
Luckily for her a lot of characters aren’t monsters like they were in the other two games so she can do some things here and there but if she had just half of that list she’d be beyond usable and playable.
Ah, I remember beating a Hugo’s Super Art with a b+HK on 3S. That shit felt so good. Waxing nostalgic about playing Elena in Third Strike was something I thought I’d never do again after SFxT, but here we are.
I don’t even press those heavy buttons anymore they have no use for me for the most part and is way to situational i get punished more than i punish. I do B+HK in some MU because it just blows some charc’s up like hugo.
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Hk and b hk are moves you should use.
Oh I’ve been thrown out of that too. That’s not too crazy though since the move doesn’t hit right away. I did find it crazier to be thrown out of the :lk: version which hits sooner and takes off the ground faster than its stronger version.
It’s funny you mention hugo. He was the one who threw me out of f.:hk:. Funny part was I did do it at far range to use it as a poke/counter hit but his SPD thought otherwise. B.:hk: is a different story. I was trying to bait a crouch tech. Yeah not such a good move for that.
I’ve resorted to just using b:hk: to crush people’s pokes, such as sakura’s c.:mk:
Thanks for the writeup Kit
Well, I’m done my writeup for the mixup/strategy thread, but just so I dont look like a crazy fool, is it known that Elena has a lot of ambiguous mixup options after a knockdown off spin scythe/lk lynx tail?
Also rooting for any and all Elena players at EVO to get far!
Na what are her options after those moves
For example after an mk SS you could do an immediate dash forward and f.MP for a meaty overhead that will beat everything except blocking high, backdashes, and reversals. It is character specific though.
Or after an lk lynx tail you can walk forward about 3-4 micro squares and do f.mk which will hit meaty allowing you to combo afterward.
There are a bunch of others I have noted in the thread which I’ll post after the end of EVO, but they all come off mk SS and whats better is that they lead back into mk SS allowing Elena to have a sort of Vortex. It’s sorta a complex system at first but makes sense. I guess I would liken it to a blend of Makoto and Dudley’s mixup game off knockdown in that they’re based on reads, except that you can literally get it and continue it anywhere on the screen and as long as you guess right they lead back into the same situation. Since it’s mainly based off of mk SS it isn’t affected by DWU either.
Ah I see, does it matter if they quick rise or not?
There are alternative options depending on the quick rise setup.
For example if you wanted to do a quick rise f.mp setup and they didnt quick rise but you did:
dash, f.mp
You can change the setup to accomodate by doing:
c.lp, f.mp
which will still hit them meaty.
Was practicing with Elena and noticed that none of her command attacks are safe on block. I didn’t test out the entire cast but Ryu, Ken, Akuma, etc. are able to hit her with a shoryuken and a cr.mk if lynx tail or spin scythe is blocked. El Fuerte, Abel, and Decapre can land their 2nd Ultra if blocked as well. Really doesn’t leave any room for error or chip damage. She was going to be my main but I’m gonna pass now
There’s a frame data thread.
She literally only has one move that is positive on block, and it’s cr.LP. That’s it.
Elena once again does her thing in tourney. 2 Elena’s in top 32 one Elena in top 8. This bottom 5 character smh
Ah I see.
I thought all the Elena’s got eliminated, who’s the Elena in top 8?
I didn’t really see much in the way of solid Elena play. All I saw was that Elena vs Guy match, and the Guy player just refused to block overheads. I don’t know what the hell his problem was, but all he had to do was block one of them and he could have turned things around. Instead he just kept getting hit by them over and over again.
Sako plays Elena once in top 32. “Elena in top 8”. Ok then.
Jwong used Rufus all the way up to there and then lost with her and Sako was just using about anyone he felt like i mean he even used Gen from his pocket. They don’t even main Elena, the fact they got top 32 does not even support you’re argument at all in fact it supports our arg more that they need more than 1 charc to even reach that point and they don’t even main Elena… Besides their Jwong and Sako of all people they could have picked anyone and did well. Also Elena was getting wrecked when Sako used her against Marq teddie and he only made it out on reads and punishes i.e his own skill. Elena gave him nothing and made the match that much harder for him.
I think he counts Sako as an Elena main or at least player but Sako plays like half the cast of the entire roster he pulled out like 4 different pocket charc’s for like only one MU and the time he did use Elena he struggled and had to make a lot of reads and punishes and even then it was a close one for him. I know Jwong was eliminated idk who the 3rd Elena player he is referring too unless he means 2 in top 32 and 1 in top 8 which double counts Sako.