At OS range you can’t just stand punish it. The hits all connect. They trip if they are back dashing
At close range? yes, the hits all connect, even when standing. Outside of very close range though, the last 2 hits will whiff if standing. And I never talked about stand punishing, when I said punish if it whiffs when standing I meant at the end of the hk LT and shes in recovery, not in between hits. Not all the hits need to connect for it to be a combo.
I think hk Lynx Tail is going to be a huge part of her game. The reasons I see it being big are because of the hkd and the FADC frame advantage. Now I’m unsure off the frame advantage at max range vs a standing opponent . But I really think it’s going to be a staple of hers.
Anyone know of any good safe jump set ups?
@the 7k Page 1 blackade’s post off of throws. Also a few more in my vault. =)
And anytime I see HK Lynx I just punish it for free. The problem is that move has a very specific rhythm and it’s easy to punish. Also you can dp it for free if it’s too close or just punish depending on your character’s move set. Decapre can U2 it and because the first 2 hits are a TBS she can punish every lynx and even if she fucks up the timing nothing really happens especially since she doesn’t have to stand to ultra.
And the frame advantage would change against an opponent who is standing further. It’s not a projectile, nor does it travel any distance…
Though I’ll say it again her high low game sucks you’re better off stocking super and running U2. Hell I wouldn’t even burn meter unless it’s to punish blatantly stupid things (like a whiffed srk).
Also because I’m an asshole I’ll just leave this here.
Spoiler
From the roundtable discussion here Daigo, Momochi, Bonchan, Itazan, Kazunoko, and Tokido. This is their consensus tier ranking for the current version of the game.
http://media.eventhubs.com/images/2014/07/05_4gamerusf4tiers.jpg
Congrats gentlemen you’re low tier heroes.
lol there was no need to say we’re all low tier heroes i mean a good chunk of us actually agree Elena kinda bad and they obviously didn’t bother to finish or test her. I have no idea where your hate comes from or is directed too but anyways i do like that tier list it’s oddly accurate for the most part i disagree with one or two placements but overall its really good.
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There’s only one person in theses parts that doesn’t believe she’s bottom 5.
Even ChrisG thinks shes bottom lol
Anyway here are my current thoughts on Elena’s MU’s. Middle means 5 - 5 obv.
I still stand by the thought she is bottom 10 if you think she’s mid tier more power to you man, we all don’t want to be right cause we obviously all love her as a charc but are pretty convinced given the current way USF4 is going.
Elena is probably a hard counter to viper. Disagree with a lot of her losing matchups you got there. Especially Rolento there’s other stuff also like gouken mu probably in her favor and maybe 7 or 8 other mu. The juri MU may be even.
I put Rolento as a slight disadvantage simply because his rolls and wall jumps allow him to negate footsies if he wants to making the MU very tricky.(I consider any character that can easily negate footsies with their movement options no better than 5 -5 automatically) Elena’s main strength comes in her ground game and a character than can avoid that will cause problems. His j.mp beats Elena’s AA’s pretty bad too. pogo beats her crouching normals save for c.mp. c.mp is actually the best tool in the MU as its the only thing that beats his pogo and his roll.The one thing that keeps me from saying it’s 4 - 6 is the fact that if you ever get Rolento down you can abuse the living shit out of him. It’s possible that it’s a 5 -5 due to c.mp, but I definitely don’t think it’s any more than that.
Juri is the same in that her air normals beat Elena’s AA’s, but her jump arc in general is trickier to deal with because of her normals and divekick changing trajectory and her low fireballs destroy slide. shes one of the few zoners(along with sagat) that you cant really bully. Pretty much, Juri controls the pacing of the match completely. The only thing Elena really has in the MU is EX rhino horn. Past that you’re pretty much at her mercy, as she dictates the flow of the match. The best option in the MU is to pretty much punish her mistakes and take advantage of it whenever possible or try using EX RH to get in and hope you dont mess up or else you’re back to square 1: being on the other side of the screen.
For Gouken it’s very possible it could be in her favor, my mind might change as time goes on.
You’re right about Viper, it’s probably a 6 - 4. I was a little conservative in placing her because I havent faced enough good ones for me to confidently put it in that rank. I do expect it to completely flip once that hurtbox patch releases though, as that’s the only reason why it’s bad for Viper.
In case it looks confusing, every row is in increments of 0.5.
A question for Kit or anyone that’s played Elena in 3S. What makes Ultra Elena completely different from 3S Elena? I never played her in 3S(and never played against one) so I’m unsure of what the fundamental differences are.
In 3S, she was based around tick throws, kara throws, mix-ups, using her multi-hit moves to punish low tier parry hogs, and strong footsies. Her specials were in general very weak, but her EXs were strong - this was okay, though, due to her strong footsies and SF3 rewarding you for playing footsies by giving meter for whiffed moves.
She was a very aggressive character that would often use frame advantage to keep opponents afraid to throw out moves for fear of frame traps which would make them more vulnerable to throw set-ups. Add to this her high stun values and her taunt increasing these stun values and you’ve got a character that’s pretty fun to play for those that like characters capable of rush down and playing mid-range footsies.
She was by no means a strong character but she was really fun. All she really needed was a cancelable cr.MK and a few other small changes and she would have been a viable alternative to Chun Li instead of just “Chun Lite”
hmmm, currently working on some tech with elema and it does seem like she can do similar things…At least in terms of mixups/kara throws/tick throws
I know she can kara throw off her f+mk overhead but the range is so minuscule that the back throw range just beats it out clean so you’re better of just doing back throw.
Not that one, she has a better kara throw.
I’m gonna make an Elena mixup thread once I sort out all the tech, probably after EVO…I’m pretty sure she can play like a SF4 version of Elena once all the details are sorted out. Sorta like Dudleys mixups in SF4 vs in 3S.
Alright excited to see the new mixup and kara-throws techs. After Evo we might see some players show us some great tech or show us a better way to use delayed wakeup and raw red focus.
Round Arch not getting a CH bonus has really been killing my motivation for frame traps. I feel like s.:hk: doesn’t go airborne fast enough to warrant the risk for trying to use it in frame traps.
What Round Arch has been doing for me, though, is consistently anti-airing close high jumpins. I guess you guys can try it and see how you like it.
I’ve only been using it on reaction to jumpins from random characters. I haven’t taken it into the lab yet to see what exactly it stops and doesn’t stop.
wat
How close are we talking? close enough that s.lp will whiff?
When does s.hk go airborne anyway? It’s worse than b.hk’s startup at 6 frames?
I’ll definitely try out anti-air b.hk after work today. I use b.HK a lot now, it blows up people after you condition them to tech and keeps the pressure on, so many stuns thanks to this move.
I tested s.hk and b.hk the other day, b.hk does indeed go airborne on frame 6, s.HK goes airborne on frame 7. b.HK is way better though because it actually hops over lows at close range, plus it moves you closer. s.hk is a good poke against some characters though, and if you get a counter hit at close range somehow, it’s pretty easy to confirm into c.mp xx ex mallet for massive damage.
Edit: Oh wait, s.HP? I have no clue, thought you asked about s.HK.