Yeah I’m terrible at RSF and I still don’t think they should get rid of it. But it’s obvious that it isn’t enough, so Capcom’s gotta recognize that he needs some tweaking.
Think of it this way.
Take an decent to good char in SF4. Give that char RSF. You guys wouldn’t like that.
This is why Fuerte needs his other tools improved enough, or new tools given so that he doesn’t NEED RSF to be viable at high level.
I’ve always thought his throws could do a bit more damage.
Its been mentioned before, the RSF represents a good deal of the identity of the character, because it is a very unique combo that no other character has in the game. Taking it away is going to hurt the uniqueness of Fuerte and will cause a lot of the crowd cheering for him to be diminished (no more people counting in excitement the number of hits in the heat of battle). It also represents perfectly what Fuerte is all about, high risk with high satisfaction as a result of success. Thats why RSF needs to stay, but as you mentioned it is not enough to put Fuerte higher in the tiers, so more improvements are needed in other areas should be made without sacrificing the core essence of Fuerte, the high risk aspect. (the reward for certain risky moves like Fajita Buster for instance should be improved as currently it has high risk but low reward).
Fuerte is already unique without RSF, what other character in SFIV plays like him?
Do people even READ their own posts? RSF require the following:
- a situation where an opponent fucked up (Bad fireball toss, caught with a focus attack)
- impeccable timing to recognize the opportunity and capitalize
- Execute, this means you must cancel into the run, properly time the earliest time to cancel the run + be in enough range to quickly press LP to stop, press FP and then repeat the whole thing again
- time it again and repeat as needed
- Be smart enough to know when to end it and either stop or slide
Let’s look at a different character. Oh yeah! Ryu
- D fucking P at any opportune time
- FADC
- Ultra
Other characters have far easier setups for damage Get it? Got it? Good. Shut the fuck up.
Fuerte’s uniqueness has not won him as many tournaments as other characters. a lot of people seem to be scared shitless of a loop that is hard as shit to do, and even then, hard to land on someone unless that guy fucked up royally and hard to keep going which is lost on a single screw up or reeling animation of the reciever.
Do you know when you can land RSF on Gief? Never. FA you say?
Gief jumps and does an attack
Fuerte FA’s first attack
Gief: Derp, Comrade! SPD
Fuerte: X_X
If you remove RSF all of Fuerte’s matchups are going to devolve into the Gief matchup, where Fuerte has to guess right 20 times to win, and Gief has to guess right 3 times. Want proof of this? Yes you losers do. and I’m force feeding it to you, bitches. Here’s what happens when you remove RSF:
[media=youtube]aYuMNLxLPkU[/media]
Notice what happens early in the vid with use of RSF, and then what happens without it. And this is happening to one of the BEST Fuertes on the fucking planet. Shut the fuck up.
NOW GO LOOK UP DAIGO VS FUERTE and see what happens with no openings for RSF. Shut the fuck up.
One more time. Shut the fuck up.
Guy, Maki, and Ramon all say hi. They dont have RSFs but they have run moves.
After you bait any of his moves, after a cross over airborne FP, Qbomb xx FA(no dc) xx RSF
Seriously? Gief is slow as hell and has stupid amounts of hp how the hell do you ever kill a gief without RSF?
Edit: FA -> cancel (he 360s) you FA
As has been mentioned, other characters don’t need RSF because they have extremely potent BnBs already. Take out Ryu’s big combos, and he’ll need a replacement.
RSF just happens to be Fuerte’s BnB. And people are overexaggerating its usefulness and underestimating its difficulty. If you take out RSF, you have to give Fuerte another high-damage BnB, or else people won’t be scared to guess wrong against him (especially considering how little damage Fuerte does with his mixups). I… I guess that’s fine, but why not just keep RSF then? It’s already a high-damage BnB that’s unique to any other character in SF history. No reason to swap it out for something that’s less interesting, less unique, but still going to accomplish the same thing.
You don’t see PinoAB7 cosplaying as Ryu doing DP, FADC, ultra, do you? :lovin:
If I FA cancel, Fuerte’s short backdash eats Glove.
I admit to exaggerating lol.
Honestly? I get the life lead and run like hell. I Run Slide him on openings. Gief can’t catch me. So I keep it simple and don’t let him.
thats how your supposed to win against him, you’d be dumb to RSF him
You’ve got balls.
IMO they should …
-
give ex bomb a bit of the GTFoff me properties that rose’s ex drill has. And shorten the damn charge time to pull it off…shouldn’t be longer than a lvl 1 TAP.
-
give his backdash more distance… like Rog/Chun backdash.
-
leave RSF in. It makes him challenging to use.
-
add 50 more stamina points.
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add a low-hitting combo equivalent to cr.jab,cr.short,cr.strong/cr.fwd that some other characters have.
I didn’t know those characters were in street fighter 4.
My bad, I should have elaborated. In stead of looping RSF, which I am not consistent with, I’ll fierce once, run then slide. Lots of Giefs lately like going for headbutts (Control distance of wall jump, fients, Guac) or Banishing Flat (Block and throw, or get outta dodge). Q-Bomb is semi useful here if you can get Gief jumpy though.
That was there for comparisons/Conversations sake. we’ve had characters before with runs in their game, though Guy had far more options in close range
RSF is Fuerte’s signiture move, something that belongs to him and only him, not shared with any of the SF series cast. Removing it is not an option. Period.
Thank you Densou for your direct and straightforward responses.
i don’t know why you guys are arguing over the RSF. for the guys who want it removed. it’s just one combo. conversely, for the guys who want to keep it. again, it’s just a combo. you’re not marrying it. ideally, the RSF should have been just another combo among many for EL Fuerte to do high damage like Viper or Akuma. unfortunately, Capcom didn’t do that the first time around. let’s hope they get it right this time around.
It’s not “just a combo” it IS his combo. Let’s look at other combos:
ClFP xx run xx gordita sobat xx super *
clFP xx run xx caramale slide *
run stop crMK (flash)
cl fp xx quesadilla bomb xx super (just for flash)
clHK xx Guacamole (ex) (basic punish)
clHK xx super
clLP x3 f LP crMK xx run xx mixup (block string)
- denotes can be done after RSF also.
As you can see some of them require super bar. You WANT meterfor ex run and guac everyone knows clHKis slow as shitso it’s only for basic punish. So you either get that rsf in or you better be a heckuva turtle man
That vid is pretty old.
I’d like to see how Tetsu handles Gief nowadays after realizing that a blocked splash = long recovery time = free punish. :crybaby:
Vs Gief I try not to jump in at all unless it’s a well-timed cross-up Fierce.
- Guac. needs to be fixed, both with its hit box and if it trades (Dumbest thing EVER)
- Make him not dependent on RSF for mid-to-high level play, but leave it for high-to-EVO level play.
- Give him some way to combo into Ultra (aside from FA)
- Gordita Sobat sucks. Change it!
That’s it really. I’m happy with him either way.
yes, it’s just another combo. the only significant thing about the RSF is that it’s his only high damage combo and therein lies the flaw with Furete. there’s a reason why he’s low tier compared to similar characters and the RSF alone didn’t make him any better. all i’m saying is that he needs high damage combos outside of the RSF. the RSF itself isn’t that relevant unless you guys like to argue over your aesthetic sensibilities instead of making the character better.