El Fuerte General Discussion Thread

[FullMetalRoss]

I was imagining a Gief walking forward until he was in range to impose himself upon Fuerte. A lariat or grounded AA would only be effective against wall jump if he was near Fuerte’s landing point, which is the other side of the screen so Fuerte wouldn’t be doing wall jump at this point. He’d only be jumping over Geif when he is almost close enough to impose. Jumping attacks would be the only answer to Fuerte’s wall jump if used in this way. You have a leg up on me when it comes to SF4 experience so I try to make sure to lace my questions with humility but, what’s hard about pressing qcf+P on reaction to a forward Gief jump? In other games, I have no problem using moves like that to go under jumps often(Bison’s slide among others).

Gief’s got good pokes. But if Fuerte is even or leading in damage, Gief wouldn’t be using these because Fuerte is already in the corner waiting for you to come over yonder.

I don’t understand how you are proposing that Gief use EX Glove. If you mean to say that Gief can whiff it so that he is right in front of Fuerte, Fuerte can jump back. EX Glove looks like it has a bit of recovery on whiff(enough for Fuerte to jump back and not get AA’ed by a grounded attack at least). Zangief could jump forward early and stuff him air-to-air, but in this situation, the gief player would have to have done an anticipatory jumping attack to catch Fuerte.

You are right about the EX Run being costly. I can’t imagine how that will turn out. But yeah, I haven’t played the game yet so the theory fighter is strong in my posts. But I have to ask these questions because if I don’t then it’ll just be me taking claims of “character Y beats character X” on good faith. If Gief beats Fuerte then I want that explanation. I wasn’t even close to thinking that Gief was an easy match, just that Fuerte can maneuver around him well.

Ex glove has almost no recorvery on whiff… if you haven’t played the game and you are trying to ask questions, I suggest you acutally askmore questions and put less theory fighter in your post. Not trying to be mean, just saying because there is alot of talk in your posts and some of the stuff you say sounds authoritative when you haven’t played the game… ya know.

[Rioting_Soul]

Ex glove has almost no recorvery on whiff… if you haven’t played the game and you are trying to ask questions, I suggest you acutally askmore questions and put less theory fighter in your post. Not trying to be mean, just saying because there is alot of talk in your posts and some of the stuff you say sounds authoritative when you haven’t played the game… ya know.

I try not to sound that way. Bet yeah, I get you. :china:

[MOD]

The good fuerte players i’ve seen which are few, don’t actually use the run mixup game all that often. Its good here and there, but they know people who play regularly in tokyo know all about that garbage. Fuerte plays pokes and zoning with a couple run mixups here and there. Some of Fuertes pokes are actually good.

Its no mystery though that hes a gimmicky character and that when it comes to having important options in the game, hes got fewer tools to work with. His damage is also horrendously pitiful. But his mixups and zoning game can be enough to win, but his matchups are almost all difficult.

If like picking fuerte for liking the character go ahead. But If you are picking fuerte because you like how he plays, I’d say switch to blanka. Much more options and better pokes with good speed, throw mixups, and cross up gimmicks + safe as shit slide.

[Dentron]

Actually Gief and Honda can command throw you out of EX Run and the Body splash, so you can try… it’s not going to work most of the time. Also, if they do EX command throw… you lose. Body splash isn’t armor breaking, they’re going to grab you as soon as you land.

Are you saying that:

1. ex spd will grab fuerte as he is rolling away from the blocked splash attempt

or

2. ex spd will take the hit from the splash and then grab fuerte as he is rolling away

obv its worse if #1 is true. #2 is not as bad i would think because if they do the ex spd too early on a crossup body splash attempt they will be facing the wrong way when they take the hit from the splash. either way its something good to know.

[polarity]

hahaha how the fuck is the splash mixup in fuerte’s favor when it’s unsafe if they guess correctly?

[Henaki]

i think fuerte is by no means bad, i just dont think he’s going to be top tier.

[FullMetalRoss]

Are you saying that:

1. ex spd will grab fuerte as he is rolling away from the blocked splash attempt

or

2. ex spd will take the hit from the splash and then grab fuerte as he is rolling away

obv its worse if #1 is true. #2 is not as bad i would think because if they do the ex spd too early on a crossup body splash attempt they will be facing the wrong way when they take the hit from the splash. either way its something good to know.

I am pretty sure he means #2…

[Joe_The_Condor]

i think fuerte is by no means bad, i just dont think he’s going to be top tier.

Ha, you will change your mind when you see someone who rocks with El.

[Reno]

Are you saying that:

1. ex spd will grab fuerte as he is rolling away from the blocked splash attempt

or

2. ex spd will take the hit from the splash and then grab fuerte as he is rolling away

obv its worse if #1 is true. #2 is not as bad i would think because if they do the ex spd too early on a crossup body splash attempt they will be facing the wrong way when they take the hit from the splash. either way its something good to know.

It’s both.

Normally Gief can just take the hit from the splash and grab with EX SPD.

However, and I witnessed this just last night as well… Gief can block the splash, and as Fuerte is rolling away from him, do an SPD and grab him. I saw a Gief player last night do that exact thing against Fuerte with FAB. He blocked it, and somehow busted out FAB while Fuerte was rolling away.

[Dentron]

It’s both.

Normally Gief can just take the hit from the splash and grab with EX SPD.

However, and I witnessed this just last night as well… Gief can block the splash, and as Fuerte is rolling away from him, do an SPD and grab him. I saw a Gief player last night do that exact thing against Fuerte with FAB. He blocked it, and somehow busted out FAB while Fuerte was rolling away.

noted, MU is now deadass horrible again =[

[Dentron]

i played some more tonight, it seems that lots of characters can punish fuerte as he rolls away from a blocked splash, a whiffed splash is even worse…
rufus c.hp
blanka c.everything

the splash mixup is good but he has no way to deal any fucking damage, almost every matchup seems to be bad. even if you bait a lp dp its difficult punish it with any noteworthy dmg except for c.mk xx super because all of his more damaging combos start from up close. i can see why most good fuerte’s are slow and methodical because if you speed up the match you end up taking a shitload more dmg that you dish.

side note: dp+lk works like a charm vs rufus dive kick though. c.hp as AA is kinda crappy vs blanka, i think im just gonna run away from blanka when he jumps at me

[n0thingman]

im told you once before and im telling you again you bastards,
fuerte is a great match up against gief. you guys dont want to believe cause gief owns the rest of the roster. but you’ll all eventually see, fuertes tearing up giefs everywhere. all the gief players i run across in fukuoka are much easier than the rest of the matches i come up against as fuerte
(unless he gets nerfed lower down the tiers in the console version for whatever reason)

the worst match ups i’ve come across are definetly blanka and dictator. good dhalsims are also pretty tough. surprisingly shotos and sagat arent much trouble (too easy to bait DPs with your splash abuse)

also fuerte vs fuerte matches are the whackest shit you’ll ever see

[n0thingman]

you guys keep assuming gief can just 360 you when he blocks the splash. but he cant. fuerte rolls out of range while gief is still in block stun. and there in lies giefs problem with fuerte.

the only 2 times i got 360’d after a blocked splash was when i stupidly cross splash a gief who was in the corner, leaving no where for fuerte to roll to

[CFAY]

this just in, fuerte can standing HK, run in, cancel then anti air grab. whats the point? really none, just looks pretty and one of those my dick is bigger than yours type things. he can also run to the other side and cancel before the op lands but the grab always miss

[Saotome_Kaneda]

What armor breaking moves does he have?

[gilley]

What armor breaking moves does he have?

The hold K, release move

The one like Raiden’s dropkick from CvS2.

[Saotome_Kaneda]

The hold K, release move

The one like Raiden’s dropkick from CvS2.

So then this 66/33 mixup could technically be beaten by SADC? Since MP Splash doesn’t break armor; what are the properties on the HP one? Is it a hit-throw, or just a throw(like Alex’s Spiral DDT)? Do dashes cause airborne status, and does the HP version grab air status opponents? How different does the 2 versions look? I have no easy way of looking at vids right now. =/

[humbag]

Someone said in the gief thread they beat spash with an EX spd.

[Saotome_Kaneda]

Someone said in the gief thread they beat spash with an EX spd.

That’s why I’m asking here, because if armored moves are beating this then it’s not as much of a godsend as these guys think. lol

[Keits]

So then this 66/33 mixup could technically be beaten by SADC? Since MP Splash doesn’t break armor; what are the properties on the HP one? Is it a hit-throw, or just a throw(like Alex’s Spiral DDT)? Do dashes cause airborne status, and does the HP version grab air status opponents? How different does the 2 versions look? I have no easy way of looking at vids right now. =/

They look identical. Opponent must be standing and grounded to be thrown. It is not a hit-throw (at least i think that means it hits, then triggers a throw animation like Maki’s moves) , as it is never blockable.