i think everyone in here knows you cant block the hp grab splash but you did know that it will completely miss on a crouched op right? the problem is not fuertes guessing game, the problem is the damage he takes. so we guess wrong and got hit by a splash or 30, big deal. itll still take 40 more to kill an op. let a gief player guess right for once and see the punishment youll receive along with the follow up cross up mix up. remember fuerte doesnt have any “get the fuck off me” move and without one of those you aint beating gief.
Would EX Backwards Run be a good reversal if you aren’t in the corner?
what do you mean by reversal? do you mean escape? well yea it would work but never used it like that. the normal back run is fast enough so you can escape most attacks with that. a cool trick is to poke poke run back then splash behind or do that whirlwind grab move, catch people all the time. youll have to hold F if you want the splash to go behind or even if you want the grab to reach the op. dont know if it was mentioned but you can control the range of both moves. the ex forward run is more useful though and i usually run in with that MK mid kick then into probably that nasty overhead drop kick or SA charge. that overhead drop kick got good recovery, you can usually easily get off a throw after it if the op doesnt try to tech or do a move with some sort of invincibility. on your op wake up after a knockdown, if you do the overhead fast enough it’ll go right through and youll end up on the other side so you can do some cool tricks with that too.
hold up. keits was saying at evo that zangief is a tough matchup for fuerte, which it is. i was trying to illude to the fact that the MU isnt as impossible due to the fact mentioned above + runaway games
…and yes i have played sf4 since then… many times… only as fuerte.
rioting soul: i will try that out tomorrow and see how it works.
Which means you also realize that if you crouch, you will be hit by the mp splash.
Again, no matter when he throws it, its a 66/33 guessing game in his favor, that leads into itself.
Well, again, I only played the game for a weekend, but you are wrong. 5 or 6 splashes/grabs is 40-50% of your life. On top of that, EX run is all the “get the fuck off me” you should need. But if you need more, Ultra works great, and EX dp+ can get you out of a lot of situations and to safety, even though it might not hit.
Your 30 or 40 splash mixup exaggeration isnt warranted here, at all.
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4 splashes and one slide = 50%. I dont even know why you are in this thread arguing with me about this. Just because you are not seeing fuerte win does not mean that he does not have the tools to do so. Time will tell, of course, but I will tell you… I’m not scared of geif. Im scared of Blanka, Boxer, Dictator, Honda, and sometimes Viper.
yes you will be hit by a splash but its a guessing game like you said. youre guessing and youll never be 100% correct. with fuerte vs gief, being 90% correct and messing up on that 10% can cost you the whole game. how long you been playing SF? you really think a game against gief will be just you doing random splash mix up and getting away with it?
his run guessing game is not always in his favor, wake up. if this was a fact he would not only be able to beat gief, he would be top tier.
how is ex run the only “get the fuck off me” move youll need when its not even a direct stuff attack lol do you know how much life you lose if someone hit you while doing that?
i’m in this thread arguing because i’ve been playing/watching the game for a little more than just a weekend and youre just doing “if he do, i do” theory talk misleading people. youre not afraid of gief because people in the US are barely learning to play the game. ofcourse in theory youll splash them to death and air throw if they jump. you played the game one damn weekend, do you even know how ignorant that sound?
Its not a RUN guessing game, its a SPLASH guessing game on WAKEUP. Everything else you do is to get that ONE knockdown so you can start it. And if im EVER winning, I can just run away from geif for 90 seconds. He wont catch me.
EX run has super armor, so I just do EX Run and then MP, and if you were hitting me, now im hitting you. If you do manage to block, I bounce away.
You can call me ignorant if you want to. You can keep sleeping on fuerte too. I don’t care. I just dont want you spreading obvious misinformation in this thread to people who are interested in playing him.
You say splash damage is negligable and you claim to have experience playing this game? If I sound ignorant, what do you sound like? 30-40 splashes lol. You’d be KOed 3-4 times.
So, you say that Jump back HP is all you need to do to beat fuerte with geif, and I say that all fuerte needs is one hit and then to run away the rest of the match. Time will tell. You are right, arguing theory is worthless, I just dont want Fuerte players in here to think they dont have an answer to all the shit you are bringing up. They do.
I’ve only played one match against Fuerte with Gief. Fuerte knocked me down once and hit me a couple times with that overhead crap and then hit me with like a run into sweep or whatever, I got ultra meter, I landed ultra, and all of a sudden I was beating him by a considerable margin.
If/when this game gets patched and Fuerte is still bottom tier when it happens, I hope they make his moves do more damage and get rid of his meaty overhead shenanigans. That kind of crap isn’t fun when Claw does it to me in ST, and it’s not fun in SF4 when Fuerte does it. It’s a lazy and stupid way to win in my opinion, and when I saw in vids that Fuerte was dealing a huge portion of his damage that way, I went from wanting to use him as a second character to having no interest in him at all.
if youre saying what i think youre saying, you are the smartest man alive/best sf player ever.
and gief is the same, he needs thats one knock down to start his game and i dont know what gief youve played or if you even played and good giefs but every character in the game fears a knockdown from gief.
haha guy its already been said, gief can punish a splash after block, stop dreaming.
im not sleeping on fuerte, im sure ive clocked in more fuerte hours than you have. i never came in here and said, “hey fuerte is trash, dont use him.” i came in here to share tips and strats but im just telling you to calm down thinking that fuerte is the gief killer just because his splash beats lariat.
haha the 30 to 40 splash comment was in reference to how much damage splashes take on gief. as for my experiece claim…sorry i really suck at the game, i just watch and post what i see all the cool japanese guys do but if youre ever in japan come to yokosuka and lets get a few matches going :shy: ill even pay your way if youre in kanto
read all my posts, i wasnt the one who said jump back punch will kill fuerte. its a good tactic against him but i will not just blatantly say yea it will kill him…the same way you said “oh shit, splash splash and gief’s dead, fuerte is the gief killer”
Forgot to mention that fuerte has a VERY good Focus attack. 
I never said ‘splash splash gief is dead’. I said if I get the lead on him even once, I can run away the rest of the game and not fight at all. Gief cant catch me.
Yes he will.
Actually Gief and Honda can command throw you out of EX Run and the Body splash, so you can try… it’s not going to work most of the time. Also, if they do EX command throw… you lose. Body splash isn’t armor breaking, they’re going to grab you as soon as you land.
Actually, I was the one who said that gief can just jump back fierce against Fuerte’s run, and it’s true. I MAIN Fuerte and I’ve played a lot more than you. Jump back fierce with gief shuts down run pretty good. It shuts down the splash and the throw, and Emergency Stop into AA throw is difficult to connect with unless it’s EX because the regular version is too slow. Lastly, unless you do HP throw, SA beats out every single open Fuerte has out of his run. Even if you hit MP splash, Gief’s SA WILL hit Fuerte and that’s a free counter. So, basically, vs. Gief, Fuerte is at a significant disadvantage.
And it’s sad, because for every 5 mixups you get right against Gief with Fuerte, all Gief needs to do is guess correctly once and you’re pretty much even again. I don’t see how this can possibly be an okay match up for Fuerte.
How?
They are going to grab me behind them? Cool! I’d really like a video of that.
Also, EX DP+K is a nice way to ‘fly away’ to safety.
you might be right. i still dont think gief can catch runaway fuerte, though.
Any footage of this matchup around?
I’m also curious as to how Gief can catch up to Fuerte and keep him pinned down. Not saying it’s impossible, I just wanna know how it’s done.
Oh, Reno, have you seen anyone do the infinite you mentioned earlier?
seriously fuerte doesnt have the capability to run the whole match. you cant just run to the corner, jump off the wall to the other side xx repeat and think that’ll win a good gief. gief is not obligated to rush you either and can very well risk a few splashes just to get in on you for real damage. if you refuse to attack and just run period he can build ex glove bars and no one likes those.
I’m sure that Zangief has aerial attacks that can stuff attacks from Fuerte’s wall jump. But can’t Fuerte run forward under these jumps(or if the threat of eating crossup is too great, EX run)? Also, if Fuerte is running away, how can Gief utilize EX Glove for an advantage?
If Gief walks slowly towards Fuerte, threatening with his awesome pokes and antiairs… what is Fuerte going to do? I mean, don’t picture the Zangief player rushing in with green hand like an idiot, there’s no need to do that. Picture a very deliberate Gief player using his extremely effective normals to push Fuerte into the corner, rarely jumping, and if Fuerte tries to jump over Gief, getting smacked down with lariat or standing jab or standing roundhouse or or crouching strong or jumping strong or jumping fierce splash, depending on Fuerte’s jump angle and air attack.
run under a jump lol i wouldnt go trying that and yea nothing like having gief diving with across up when youre trying to run. i dont think it would be possible to see a jump then safely run under it like that on command. its hard enough to even see a jump and get the anti air grab. for ex glove or even regular glove, it covers a lot of ground and has serious recovery. if he gets in to a certain distance, he can anticipate your forward/back run and ex glove you for free knockdown. if you block the glove there isnt much you can do to take off life and if youre not super quick, you can easliy get a spd after you block the glove. ex run can help but but remember that fuerte doesnt build meter that fast so its not something youll always be doing in every tight situation. if you find yourself using your already hard to come by ex bars just to escape situations risking damage, how can anyone think its an easy match?
what you mentioned is exactly how a fuerte vs gief match works but according to theory, fuerte will run run run run run run run run and gief will never catch him. i ony mentioned the glove since it will easliy cover ground to get in on running fuerte if he thinks he gonna run the whole game. once gief gets in on fuerte, its curtains. youll need 24 splashes to make up for the amount of life he about to drain
I was imagining a Gief walking forward until he was in range to impose himself upon Fuerte. A lariat or grounded AA would only be effective against wall jump if he was near Fuerte’s landing point, which is the other side of the screen so Fuerte wouldn’t be doing wall jump at this point. He’d only be jumping over Geif when he is almost close enough to impose. Jumping attacks would be the only answer to Fuerte’s wall jump if used in this way. You have a leg up on me when it comes to SF4 experience so I try to make sure to lace my questions with humility but, what’s hard about pressing qcf+P on reaction to a forward Gief jump? In other games, I have no problem using moves like that to go under jumps often(Bison’s slide among others).
Gief’s got good pokes. But if Fuerte is even or leading in damage, Gief wouldn’t be using these because Fuerte is already in the corner waiting for you to come over yonder.
I don’t understand how you are proposing that Gief use EX Glove. If you mean to say that Gief can whiff it so that he is right in front of Fuerte, Fuerte can jump back. EX Glove looks like it has a bit of recovery on whiff(enough for Fuerte to jump back and not get AA’ed by a grounded attack at least). Zangief could jump forward early and stuff him air-to-air, but in this situation, the gief player would have to have done an anticipatory jumping attack to catch Fuerte.
You are right about the EX Run being costly. I can’t imagine how that will turn out. But yeah, I haven’t played the game yet so the theory fighter is strong in my posts. But I have to ask these questions because if I don’t then it’ll just be me taking claims of “character Y beats character X” on good faith. If Gief beats Fuerte then I want that explanation. I wasn’t even close to thinking that Gief was an easy match, just that Fuerte can maneuver around him well.