his best poke is far standing MP but even that isnt good enough.
his “target” combo is also useless. dont know what they were thinking with that. it doesnt even combo and it starts with a far standing mk that has no range.
even is jabs, shorts come out extremely slow compared to every other character in the game. i was playing against a sagat and after my first c+jab, he could grab me before i got out another jab or any other attack.
i dont think fierce run fierce is an infinite. any combo,glitch, infinite fiend would have easily saw it once they figure out that he can cancel his run. i tired it a few times mid screen and it didnt work.
Don’t worry, when it hits consoles and many strategies have been piled up for him you might learn to use him properly:woot:
At the mean time try not to abuse Ryu’s Ult. I seen that shit get beaten by craploads of stuff in some matches @_@
Kinda reminds of Twelve for some reason:rofl:
…but I know I’ll main this crazy mexican :tup:
My only gripe is that he doesn’t have a signature command grab move tho
good to know that different strengths of his airthrow worked at different heights, i almost always use c.hp for a reset then run at them to either bait dp or do a mk,mp,hp…etc
about j.hp crossing up: its margin for error is kinda small on this, it looks like maybe j.mk could cross up too, have you tried it out?
you said at evo that gief was a bad MU as well but i think as long as you play good keep-away and get a random knockdown for the mixup he has no “get out of mixup free” card because the body splash beats lariat clean every time (maybe even j.hp).
s.mp is pretty fast and seems to be longer than c.mk so ive been using that instead to go into the run.
one more question i had was: will S.C.HK => dp+k work if you hit the HK while the opponent is still in the air? i guess its just another thing to test, but i dont see why not.
Seth told me j.hp was the only one. I didnt test j.mk as a result.
I dont think gief beats fuerte at all now. You just cant do any poke strings on him. You have to simplify your game even more. But of all the character, gief will especially never catch a winning fuerte. I think he can use EX hand to get out of the mixup for free, though, but its untested.
Im not sure. S.C.HK is the slowest shit in the world, so its going to be hard to test.
no way dude, gief pretty much beats Fuerte in this game imo. Even though splash beats lariat, he doesn’t even need to bother with that… gief just needs to do jump back fierce and he completely shuts down Fuerte’s run. j.fierce will beat splash and his throw cleanly, and if he tries to go for the kick or slide, gief is pretty safe.
splash beating lariat doesnt make fuerte even close to gief. how many splashes need to hit gief to take half his life, about 10? remember splashes are blockable. yea you can get a few off with mix ups but not enough to make him better than gief. jumping around with anyone including gief will kill fuerte. keep thinking gief cant punish fuerte after a blocked splash… he got glove, c+hk and even whiffed standing hk will get gief in rape range. its too easy for gief to stay one fuerte.
or footsie and bait gief into wiffing something, then c.mk, run, whatever.
i dont have much xp with this game. i only played at evo for a weekend. but i can tell you that some of you just are not willing to think outside the box here. if so, fuerte isnt for you.
There’s a difference between thinking outside the box and needing to work way harder to get your opponent to do the one specific thing your move will beat when they can beat 3-4 of your options with the same move. Doesn’t mean El Fuerte sucks completely or that he has no chance, but he definitely takes a lot more guesswork to win with than you’re making it out to be.
If his guessing games led to huge damage like 3S Makoto, he’d be pretty good. As it stands, he doesn’t do nearly enough. He could really use a ground command grab or some better pokes into combo. Splash vs. crossup splash vs. flying grab is a mixup, sure, but it only goes so far (and it’s not like nobody knows how to do option-select anti-crossup DP motions anymore).
btw, you can block the splash, but you cant block the hp grab splash. you always have to guess vs fuerte, and that guessing game isnt very punishable at all.
and I can tell you that I spent every loketest using him since he debuted, and then for two weeks straight after the official release… You may be able to do those mixups, and I can tell you that it’s not gonna work. I already tried run -> emergency stop -> anti-air throw, and it whiffs, all versions of it except for EX, and that’s only if they react late.
I think CFAY said it best though, you can do these mixups and they do work sometimes, but the problem, especially against gief is that for every 5 mixups you land, some characters only need you to make one mistake for them to even it up. I remember playing a gief early on in SF4 and I swear to god I landed about 5 splashes with him, and then I guessed wrong and I ate an EX SPD and it was almost even again. That shit sucks especially considering I had to mix it up and fake the gief out a ton just to land those 5 splashes.
oh god, more theory arguments with peoeple who watched/played a few matched at evo. if anything, youre the one not thinking outside the box. you cant think fuerte will beat gief just because splash beats lariat on wake up. im not even gonna get into it, just spend some more time with the game. Any srker in japan whether good or bad, will tell you that fuerte is not beating gief.
