What is he lacking in fundamentals? Serious question because I still don’t understand how mixups are not playing Street Fighter.
Mix ups are part of SF. The problem with Fuerte, however, is that…
Hm, you know I would like to take this back to the drawing board myself.
Basically, Fuerte is said to have no footsies because a lot of his normals don’t have the frame advantages or speed or coverage to match some of the other good footsies in the game, such as Ryu’s c. MK and Fei Long’s s. HP. I have heard that his Dash into his moves are his footsies, but I dunno about that one. Theoretically, he has the best blockstrings in the game as long as you can keep his dash x stop strings going, so the purpose should be trying to get in and keep the other player from playing footsies.
But then you have his specialty. He’s best at mid range, where he has a balance of offense and defense. Most of his specials hit at this range and his only good poke (however) is his far s. HK, which breasks armor, too, so that’s good. His cr. Mk is a good poke, too, cause it also makes some moves go over his head when timed properly. I think I did one one time where he ducked Ryu’s tatsu.
Fuerte is a zoner in that, he can make space rather than force it like Shotos with their fireballs and Dhalsim with his normals. So that more supplements that mid range policy you have to keep when playing him. Now here’s the funny thing: Fuerte has a footsie game:it’s just in a different format. Instead of poking out a limb or a cr. MK, he instead uses Tostada press or Fajita. It’s just as fast as some of the best pokes in the game and knocks the opponent down, good for starting up his mix up games. Therefore, Fuerte actually does have the fundamentals: he just does them in different ways. Same for Viper, who is deemed a different entity, too.
Fuerte can also just ex run into people’s pokes (don’t forget that he can take two hits here), and basically do what he wants, from the RSF to splashes or whatever. He can ex run from Dudley’s MGB. As long as he jumps out after the second armor is gone, he’s free to escape. It’s funny how Fuerte works, and I believe playing him for a long time lets you get to learn the more subtle parts about him.
That’s what I’m thinking. He’s playing the game in an unorthodox way. There’s nothing wrong with that. If people don’t like that, that’s their problem.
Over in the Theory fighter thread, they are trying to discuss what type of properties makes a character have a better chance in the game, and people are still debating over a tier list that has yet to be defined due to all of these surprises happening at tournaments. Is it health? Is it options? Is it footsies? Is it having a mix up game? They cannot figure out yet what’s the dominant feature in the game.
People say Fuerte sucks because his ratio of risk/ rewards is not very good. Why did Fuerte shoot up in the tier list came Super? His U2. Suddenly, people saw it as an easy option: it’s easier to land, it requires less timing, and it hurts like hell at max gauge. Same thing for the Breathless ultra that Abel has. Everyone knew that Fuerte is a character that requires a lot of work for little rewards. He can be doing well throughout the match, but if he screws up once, it’s game over.
I would love to see the development notes they did when creating Fuerte, only so I can wonder what was the true basis behind his design. Why did they give him the Quesidilla Bomb, an unusual move you normally would not see on a character like him. However, it crosses the distance rally fast and can be controlled in direction. And then you realize that his dash special is central to his design. It’s used to position yourself and allow him into his other moves. It’s used to keep him from getting hurt and to let him get in when he wants. Lack of defense for offense. That’s why whenever he gets cornered, it’s suppose to be your (the player’s) mistake, not the character itself. Which is why he’s deadmeat whenever he is stuck there or placed into a blockstring. He has no SRK. He has no “get off me” move. I wish his bomb was a better get off me move, but the start up sucks too much. They’ll just grab or hit you out of it, which has happened a lot when I was experimenting with it.
So yeah…
After using it against runaway Zangiefs, I think the point of Quesadilla Bomb is to punish runaways. Think about it. It can be very difficult to land a Tostada, Slide, or whatever on the oppponent when they run away, especially if they’re Dhalsim, Ibuki, Akuma or anyone with a DP. Minus the startup, this runs in hitting the opponent with good priority. It may seem like run stop guac is another alternative, but we all know the joys of Guac’s crap trade.
Like you said, I want to know the true use of this attack.
Far mp is better than crMK IMO, and This discussion on normals is pleasing. This is why I made the fundamentals thread. We’ve been too focused on mixups and RSF to really figure out our normals, which is something Chun-Li players for example, require.
we can’t whore them. But we do have them. We just need to figure who we can and can’t use what on.
I guess Fuerte is a modified Zoner if you will.
You can’t control qbomb distance. I posted distance on fundamentals thread. Feel free to check it, test and correct if needed.
Q-Bomb beats LOTS of horizontal moves. If it had faster startup or ex had one hit hyper armor it’d be a phenominal counter poke. It’s also a “keep it simple” move in some combos. I was doing some testing for combo damage. And it seems to be the answer for primarily turtling Fuertes. You CAN use it as an alternate get in move with fadc but there’s no frame advantage on doing that due to slow normals. Perhaps the jab buff modifies this…
Irronically the “stupid move” does have a use… I still feel capcom won’t buff it since if they modify the move positively they’ll make the move too good.
I think the best description is this:
If Dhalsim is Defensive Zoning, then El Fuerte and C. Viper are Offensive Zoners. After all, Dhalsim is keeping away the opponent with long range attacks and fireballs and stays away with Teleports. El Fuerte and C. Viper are more mid-range and bait their opponents by exploiting move ranges and then punish with beatings from Hell while keeping themselves away with Habanero Dash and High Jump. Their options against runaways, since they don’t have traditional DPs, are Quesadilla Bomb for that quick get in and attack and High Jump into Air Burning Kick.
When you start seeing the positive aspects of El Fuerte and C. Viper, you appreciate the care they went into for their designs. They may not be perfect, but they are some of the most fun I’ve had in my limited fighting game experience.
I think the term we want is Reaction or Counter Zoner. Other zoners try to keep you out with committed attacks, Fuerte plays around to get you to do something so he can punish THAT.
Considering that I said their main thing is to punish, you’re probably right. If we had to sum up their general playstyle (ignoring differences in strategies), what would that word be? Punisher seems kind of uninspired.
Trolling?
El fuerte starts run stopping. Runs under Ryu’s jump in. Ryu gets butthurt.
Ryu: don’t make me jump in on you son.
Fuerte: DO IT ******!
Ryu jumps in.
Fuerte: tortiiiiiiiilla
Fuerte: Trollface.jpeg
Fuerte: Taunts
Ryu: RANDOM ULTRA11!!1
Fuerte: Counter ultra 1
star of death shines
Ryu: … connection lost with other player
Fuerte(email): you forgot your salt with your take out order!
TROLLING ZONER IT IS!!!
Edit: this will now be my email to rage quitters.
You know, every time I see Fuerte smiling when he K.O.s on the last hit of Tortilla, I always say Trollface.jpg.
[media=youtube]Jwup4ItqyNQ"[/media]
Quick, someone needs to make a Fuerte edit of Trollface.
Yes!!! I demand trollface.jpeg fuerte!!!
Tu enojado?
From now on, we should talk as if everything is exciting. We’ll end our sentences with exclamations. We will talk about stuff as if we weren’t even serious. We’ll bring along the trolololo vibe into the forum to where no one will be able to recognize what we’re talking about.
Hell, I doubt anyone recognizes what we talk about in the first place.
Well, we’re already starting to name attacks after food thanks to me!
Ta enojado?
Oye! Se te olvido la sal con tu comida!!!
I’m starting to wonder about Fuerte’s hotbox during Picadillo Jump… I don’t think I’ve been hit out of it… Like… EVER.
WAIT we need a salty reference to a move!!! Jumping fierce punch. El codo Salado!!! Salty elbow!!
Using a spanish dictionary left me confused for the first part of your sentence.
Wouldn’t you say, “Oye! Tu olvidaste la sal con tu comida!” or “Hey! You forgot the salt with your food!”
Whatever happened to all those hitbox videos anyhow? I never found one for Fuerte, especially when I was trying to find out Taco Knee’s hitbox.
And for when you’re turtling, “ESTOY ESPERANDO!”
Alright guys… you gotta stop treating fuerte as a troll character. instead of saying that hes meant to just piss people off is really a waste of time of playing. Idk how anyone can find enjoyment out of just taunting, in the end, you should always try to win. If you guys wanna be ultimately better, then try to take everything seriously. What separates the competitors from the pretenders is attitude. If your just gonna play then just fool around in the end, no point of playing at all. Naming normals isnt gonna solve problems and stuff. Everytime I post, I try to help you guys a little bit to help you guys improve. A lot of the stuff I’ve learned for fuerte, I learned on my own. So I like to help you guys since I never had guidance or barely inspiration other than TKD and Tetsu. When you play, you should always play serious and always try to find a remedy for a situation. I just hope you guys can change your attitude and see the game differently.
Players like me, Peru, Spore, Dawgtanian, and im sure theres a couple of you guys out there who this apply to, but we play and see this game in a different way. Maybe its because you guys dont have the motivation. but people really dont see fuerte as a threat, but only as an annoying character.
You know that like top players say fuerte suck right lol? Idk about you guys, but im the type to like put people in there place by proving people wrong. I know you guys are trying to have fun and stuff messing around in the thread and stuff. but honestly alot of fuertes who are actually pretty decent only lurk because they dont feel like the people will take information with seriousness.
dont you wanna show people that fuerte is not what they thought he was. Sometimes I lurk the forums and see people post and I ask myself if people just rather be fanboys or whatever.
sorry if I sound like a deuch, but I want you people to get better. This character forum is actually the more civil one compared to the others, it has a good foundation and everyones friendly. So all im saying is, lets take this little mexican more seriously and prove to yourself that you can make something amazing out of something decent.
^
Agreed 1000%
But real talk. I think we need should be discussing more about fuerte’s competive side rather then just his character background. Yes, you should have fun when playing this game, but if you’re trying to get better, you shouldnt be taking about what to name fuerte’s normals which already have names jab, strong, fierce, etc. But yeah, you guys don’t have to listen to me, but I’m trying to get better to win not just simply having “fun”.
P.S.
If you really want to get better at this game with Fuerte. you need to stop thinking qbomb is a good move. because it isnt… And for those of you who don’t know how to RSF, i say you learn how to do that before you worry about anything else. Stop using cl rh xx guac as a punish or a follow up from a focus crumple. but instead RSF. it should be obvious why you’ll be using that.
I know I’m rambling now, but this is a thing that has been on my mind for a while now. As spab said, many people have stopped posting and just lurk occasionally. I dont know know if you guys noticed but I stopped posted videos here to get critiques, because i know that no one will help me/critique me so I feel its a waste of time.
That is all I guess.
Don’t ruin the fun, man. We are serious. We’re just being serious in our own way. We’re being…UNORTHODOX.