Are the A2 and A3 side tournaments still going down?
Very true about tekken and CVS2. And Marvel… I know exactly what you mean.
First, I take offense for you to be even coming on here and be like “hey, do you guys care?” Would we have taken the responsibility of running this if we didn’t care? Now, I read your actual post and see that you are pretty much 100% wrong on every point.
The reason Guilty Gear is being held on Friday is this: the majority of GG players, with the exception of Chaz and maybe a handful of others, do NOT play Capcom games at all. Why crowd these players into the break on the weekend, when there will be 5x as many people, and 1/5 the amount of open T.Vs? It just doesn’t make any sense at all. Just like Wigfall said, at TS6 Slash was held AT A TOTALLY SEPERATE LOCATION on Friday night, and people came out from all over and played until 8:30 in the morning. We’re running Slash on Friday because we’re trying to be CONSIDERATE and give the guilty gear players free reign of the break, so they can have some casuals, have plenty of space to play and set up, and then have a nice tournament. OR, we could try to just throw them into the mix of 5+ other console tournaments over the weekend and give then no casuals, limited space, and a long ass wait. HRM, which is better?
CvS2 will be a double elim tournament, as it should be and always has been. We’re not going to get 90+ heads like Texas or Evolution, so there’s no reason to do pools. Pools do nothing but take up more time, and with the limited time and space we will have, I’m not willing to run pools. CvS2 players should be happy they’re getting 2 out of 3 games for the first time in a LONG time, so please stop bitching.
ST is on Sunday for one reason: there are already way to many things going on Saturday between MvC2, CvS2, and 3s, not to mention casuals. If we run ST on Sunday, we can also have Alpha 2 and 3 that day…the majority of players who play ST will also be interested in those games. It will be IMPOSSIBLE to do this on Saturday with the amount of work we’ll already be doing. I’ve already had a few people thank me for putting ST on Sunday so they could also enter A2 and A3.
3s is console 100%, and we’ve said this 10 times already. It will 1. save time, 2. avoid people whining about the Break’s sticks (which happens 100% of the time), and 3. give people a chance for 3s casuals on the cabinets DURING the tournament. At what other tourney do you get to practice the game you’re about to play moments before your match? The minor differences between the PS2 and arcade version of 3s are so ridiculously small that even the Japanese players don’t care about them…if you’re some kind of a meticulously detail-focused person who is going to bitch, don’t come. The major complaints I’ve had about 3s are NOT about game differences, but about people who aren’t used to playing on joysticks! Um, 3s has been on console for about 7 years now, time to get used to it I think…
As for DOA4, I really don’t think it’s going to be Friday, I’m probably going to change it to Sunday. You are 100% wrong when you said that DOA4 players play Tekken; in fact, VERY FEW players play both besides probably Jason Cole. The DOA4 players are going to come just for DOA4 and nothing else, so I’d rather do it midday Sunday or something like that. Although there’s a possibility I may do it Friday night as well, but I have to make a solid decision soon.
So, let me explain to you what would happen if we used your schedule:
Friday:
Nobody shows up and the arcade is nearly empty all day. We miss out on valuable time we could be finishing a tournament or two, because honestly, nobody cares about team tournaments.
Saturday:
We are ridiculously pressed for time and space, trying to run both CvS2 and Tekken 5 simultaneously. We are also ridiculously crunched for space trying to run 3s on cabs, because the cabs are small and the controls suck. We get 1 million complaints about 360s on 3s and once again, people shit all over the tournament. ST goes smooth, but then it ends around 8-9pm and we have no time to have A2 or A3. CvS2 does not finish because of lack of TVs/consoles/joysticks while Tekken was running and spills over into Sunday. We try to squeeze in DOA4 and that ends up taking forever because we only have one station for it, due to lack of space. Nobody is happy besides Marvel players, who spent most of the day doing money matches and drinking.
Sunday:
Nobody shows up for MvC2 until 2pm (they all drank the night before) and it takes forever to get the tournament started. We should have started top 16 at 8pm, but it didn’t start until 10 because we’re behind. CvS2 had to finish so we had a very late start with Gulity Gear, and those people are pissed. Plus, we had to force the CvS2 top 16 to play immediately after the end finishing quals because we’re strapped for time, giving them no rest at all. In addition, nobody shows up for A2/A3 because the ST players have mostly gone home already. Marvel finishes after midnight, everybody is tired, and turnout for a lot of games was ruined.
So…
In conclusion, thanks for the advice, but no thanks. We know what we’re doing, we didn’t just magically make a schedule for no reason. If you wanted to talk to us about this, it’s called an IM or a PM or hell, call me on the cell. Don’t go on SRK trying to blast us and make us look stupid, because you just made yourself look even worse.
DSP, you look stupid! blows raspberries
So is button mapping going to be like ecc9 where its banned but you can still use it if you want?
Owned… badly.
Moving on, is CvS2 going to be put into a 128 man bracket if it breaks the 64 player barrier or is there a contingency plan for pool play?
You want to be considerate to the GG players, so you have their tourney at 6pm on a Friday when the majority of NJ GG players said they can’t make it on a Friday? The GG scene in TX is much bigger than in NJ so of course more people would show up there, I’m setting the over/under on 10 people for Slash tournament if it runs Friday at 6pm. Last year we were able to give the GG people casuals, tons of space, and not really a wait (once the tournament started it went very quickly, and it only started 1 hour late!)
If I recall correctly, for the past couple years CVS2 at ECC has been getting 80+ people, the lowest number I can recall for CVS2 was at ECC7 which was capped at 64 people. CVS2 was usually one match every year, except guess what, THE YEAR THERE WAS POOLS! Let’s look at the history of CVS2
ECC7 - 2 out of 3, single elim until top 16 which is then double elimination bracket - TOOK FOREVER
ECC8 - single match (until top 16), double elim - TOOK FOREVER
ECC9 - pools (CONSOLE), 2 out of 3, top 16 double elim 2 out of 3 - TOOK FOREVER
ECCX - pools (ARCADE), 2 out of 3, top 16 double elim 2 out of 3 - TOOK FOREVER
but here’s one thing, as ECC went on the #'s in CVS2 actually rose.
Here are the benefits of having pools
For the organizers - the same people are there all the time so instead of looking for someone for 5 minutes you can have them hang right by their machine which saves a lot of time
For the players - you don’t have to wait multiple hours in between matches which will happen in CVS2 even if you have console, you can get all your matches done in a short period of time and find out if you have to come back later for the top 16 or not.
Well more like 6 years (October 2000), but people will be whining about I lost because it’s console (which happens 100% of the time)
My reasoning that DOA4 players usually play Tekken is based on the fact if you look at the tournaments on TZ they seem to advertise them together and the results seem to have the same people in them. I know VA plays both, so I’m not sure if it’s specific to that region or not.
It’s like this every year at ECC and it will be like it this year too.
So CVS2 won’t finish if it’s run next to console Tekken 5, but it will finish if it’s run next to console 3S?? And the reasoning for this is? Last year more people entered 3S than T5 and I bet it will happen this year too since there’s no thread about it on any tekken message boards - why not contact STEVE HANNA he’ll run it for you. Actually this is more likely to happen with 3S running at the same time because most tekken people DONT USE JOYSTICKS, hardly anyone is going to be playing 3S on pad, same goes with CVS2. And without the tekken people in the arcade, THE TEKKEN PEOPLE WONT BRING PS2s or EQUIPMENT SINCE THEY HAVE NO REASON TO COME ON SATURDAY and since your logic that people who play capcom will show up on saturday regardless the same amount of TVs will be brought on Saturday by outsiders, so this problem is more likely to occur rnning CVS2/3S than T5/CVS2
Why? Guilty Gear people will bring their own equipment, so their start time isn’t dependant on CVS2
Huh? This isn’t a marathon, if you claim you lost because you played too many matches in a short period of time that’s a lame excuse
This will happen regardless
I’m not I’m just pointing out flaws that will happen based on my experience
But if you don’t want to listen to me fine, you’ll find out for yourself when it happens.
Last year we also didn’t have CvS2, 3s, and DOA4 on console. It is UNFAIR to these gamers to force them to play on Saturday/Sunday when I know there will be next to no time to pay attention to their tournament. I’m sorry that the New Jersey community can’t make it, really, but it’s called a MAJOR because it’s three days. If you can’t make it the day of your tournament, tough shit. Remember I didn’t even want to have this tournament, but thanks to Josh Wigfall and Chaz campaigning for it, it’s going to happen. I have nothing against the Guilty Gear community but I’m not going to sacrifice the “big 4” aka the four major capcom games for this game. ECC was founded on Street Fighter and will forever be based around Street fighter. If they have a problem with that, tough shit. I’m trying to give them the most help possible here, and if they don’t understand that, to hell with it!
One thing you’re forgetting: we will have at least 3-4 CvS2 stations at all times. Yes it’s slightly harder to run, but I’m SORRY I dont’ believe we’re getting 80 entries. I dont’ know what crack you’ve been smoking but ECC hasn’t had 80+ people in a tournament for years. I like how you can quote mythical facts but you are wrong, lol.
People will ALWAYS complain no matter what. The difference is, for console you can simply say “you played on your own stick/you SHOULD have played on your own stick” and it’s over. For arcade, you have to eat the blame for shitty controls. But I’m sure you don’t see the difference since you’ve never taken blame…
In texas, the only person who played in both was Jason Cole, and I regularly check the actual DOA forums and haven’t seen much about overlapping tournaments. Perhaps the Tekken tournament holders just like to hold DOA4 as a secondary event? I haven’t heard jack about this and nobody has posted saying that they’d like DOA4 the same day as Tekken besides you. SO…if people feel that way, please request it.
Which is why I’d rather have Guilty Gear in a relatively empty arcade than in a jam-packed sardine can. If you can’t see the logic behind this, you’re probably not a logical person.
We can solve this in several different ways…either we can cancel Tekken 5 entirely (I have no problem doing this, ESPECIALLY since so many people will be complaining that it’s not DR, which you can blame Namco for making PSP-only) or else we can try to swap the time of Tekken 5, but I’d much rather run CvS2/3s on Saturday so if either spills over, we can finish on Sunday. AGAIN, ECC is focused on the BIG FOUR and nothing else, everything else can suck a dick and these games get preferential treatment because they have been staples of ECC (in one form or another) since it’s inception. I’m not going to cancel 3s for Tekken, so to speak. Also, if Tekken Zaibatsu people don’t have brains enough to remember ECC, that’s pretty fucking lame. Honestly, if they dont care, we don’t have to have it and I can run something else…
Just because someone brings their own equipment, it doesn’t create magical time…you can bring 100 copies of Slash and modded PS2s, but if we have limited space it doesnt mean jack shit…the issue is time and space, NOT copies of games.
YES and I’m sure you’ve never played 2-3 tournaments back to back EVER! At TS6 I played ALL of my MvC 2 matches, then a ST match, then some DOA matches, then all of my 3s matches, the more DOA4 matches, THEN at 12:30am I was expected to finish my ST matches all back to back. Get the fuck out of here! If you want to have a real, meaningful tournament, you need to have players NOT overtired and overplayed…any REAL player realizes this. Sorry you don’t get it, bro!
Yes, people will always complain, but at least with my schedule we can defend ourselves and say “at least we tried to split shit up, it’s not our fault.” With your schedule it’s trying to do all the console shit in 1 day and it’s bound for failure.
Then you’re experience is absolutely shitty. Get your head out of your butt and realize that you’re looking from the perspective of 1-2 tournies only.
I’d much rather make my own mistakes than suffer because I listened to somebody else. Josh and I stand by our schedule and if there’s issues, we’ll take the blame. Much better than saying “FUCKING ROB SIGLEY FUCKED UP ECC!” See, we’re men who take fault for shit that happens, we don’t blame it on others. Again, if you wanted to talk about this you could have PMed, IMed, or called us. By bringing it out here you only made yourself look foolish, and like you were looking for attention.
CvS2 really did have 80 people last year, wasn’t it around 8+ pools?
;p
(phi cameo :lovin: )
ecc8 had 78 people
ecc9 had 83 people
eccx had 87 people
i’ll talk to you about equipment and such on aim, but i just had to mention how logically retarded that statement is.
rob’s helped me on almost every tournament i’ve ran at the break and he understands most if not all of the (unpolitical) decisions i’ve made tourneywise. that better be nuff said.
his schedule was based on 3s being arcade, but i’ll talk to you on aim about both schedules.
i just want to clarify that he’s making practical suggestions, and by posting, he’s openned the window for debate among players, to see which would be more helpful to players and (more importantly) more efficient for the tournaments.
i’m not here to cause drama, but i’m just stating that rob is bringing up legitimate arguments, while it seems that you’re not wanting to listen to reason.
dont’ worry, he’s not trying to take your attentionwhore title anytime soon :wgrin:
I hardly believe that a post starting with “do you guys even care about ECC?” is trying to give constructive criticism. He didn’t even ask US, he addressed the public, basically saying “dont you think that Wigfall and DSP don’t know what they’re doing?” The funny thing is, since he posted, only ONE person has agreed with him, lol.
When you open a post by shitting on someone’s face and reputation, it doesn’t really matter what you say afterwards, it’s going to be taken as diarrhea.
The major points that Rob made…that 1. he doens’t think Guilty Gear will get many entries on Friday, and 2. that 3s should be on arcade…are not valid. With all the console tournaments going on already that MUST go on (when I say that, I mean the “big four” and Tekken) there is no time to cram in Guilty Gear as well. And 3s will be on console, 100%. I don’t know how many times I have to say it, both Josh and I have decided on this and set it in stone. The amount of people whining about console 3s is miniscule compared to the amount of people who have said “thank god, now I can actually play instead of fucking up on shitty 360s and cramped cabinets.”
It is also insanity to try to cram MvC2 into one day, and I stand behind Wigfall on that. Also running pools for every game takes MASSIVE time, since you have to create 8+ fair pools of seeded players from different regions, and thats just ridiculous. It’s going to take me 2x the amount of time it will take for me to create a double elim bracket, and it will also take 2x as long to run the tournament, since basically there will be people losing more than twice but still playing. It just doesn’t make sense in this kind of venue…again, if we were at EVO in a big hall with lots of space, and 10+ stations to play on, I would run pools, but it makes no sense at the Break. We’re going to try to cram in 5-6 console stations as it is but we’ll be lucky if we can do even that.
I am HAPPY to accept constructive criticism. But Rob apparently doens’t know how to go about it in a human manner. Wigfall IMed me the other day basically saying that Sigley shit on us like we’re assholes that dont’ care about ECC and he’s not happy about it. At first I thought he was overreacting until I read the thread myself. It’s great that Rob is trying to help, but I think HE needs help with his personal skills a bit. If you do want to discuss this further, feel free to IM me or Wigfall or give me a call, you have my phone #. Or we can just do a group chat on AIM one night or something, let me know.
By the way, I’m going to Final Round so maybe you, me and Wigfall can do a round-table there or something.
Damn DSP, take everything with a grain of salt. In the end the results of the tournament will speak for itself, in which case you can rub it in so and so’s face if you feel like it. It’s a public forum, people (regardless whether it’s sigley or not) are gonna criticize however they want… but at least for simple attendees like me I can see what’s going thru the director’s minds rather than everything hush hush thru aim. But that’s just my opinion.
I can’t backup facts and all that shit because I don’t browse multiple forums like other people, nor do I have the statistics, but I can certainly speak for CvS2. I probably wouldn’t have entered CvS2 last year if it wasn’t for the pools. I’ve stood around for a double elimination cvs2 2/3 match tournament before and I almost lost my mind. I’ve coem so close to saying fuckit and just leaving (even after paying cover/entree just because it sucked so much ass to stand there). Not to mention if you’re not so hardcore on watching trying to just squeeze in to stand between 2 people’s shoulders to get a glimpse of the lower 1/2 of the screen to watch sucks too.
I recommend pools… mainly cuz there’s NOWHERE to sit in the break unless you learn to like the floor… a skill (heh) i’ve had to cope with over the years.
-McFly
Yeah I’d have to recommend pools as well. If Phi can do it for half a decade you should do the same as us ECC folk are just fine with it. As for how long it will take you to make pools, well that’s what’s going to happen if you’re behind a major like ECC, so using it as one of a few ‘reasons’ to do double elimination doesn’t work out really.
Take out Tekken 5.0 and put Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection on it.
No one will show up fo 5.0 and I know that the break has a DR machine…
For CvS2 I would say do pools. The rest of the games, I dunno.
If there is overwhelming demand for CvS2 pools, I will do it. In fact, I’m going to create a poll right now so that people can have input on it.
HOWEVER, Tekken 5 is on console, or else it just won’t happen. The Break has one DR machine, and already I heard people are complaining the controls don’t work. It will be IMPOSSIBLE to get enough Tekken DR machines to run an arcade tournament, those things are more rare and expensive than back in the day when CvS2 was new…it’s just NOT REASONABLE to be demanding a tournament for it. If you want to blame someone, blame braindead Namco for trying to sell PSPs by making it only for that system.
Check out tournaments and events for the poll!
I’m pretty sure Chris can get another Cabinet for DR.
That cabinet already had problems with the controls.
Point is not many people will show up for 5.0. DR is the new shit, and numbers prove that it will be the next big thing…
I really dont understand what people dont understand. THERE IS NO WAY TO HAVE A TEKKEN DR TOURNAMENT. Unless it magically appears on PS2 before ecc its not going to happen. Even if the break had 2 machines it still wouldnt be enough to hold a massive tourney like ecc. I’m THIS close to canceling tekken altogether at which time I WILL put guilty gear in its time slot.
Be my guest.
No one is going to that trash ass 5.0 tourney…
Oh and another thing. I really like to know what you are talking about in terms of “Not being big enough to hold a massive tourney”
Clash 2k6= 87 people
Last Years ECC= 67 to 70…
So please explain to me how it won’t be big…
2 cabinets is not sufficient for a major. We do realize T5DR would get huge numbers which is why we KNOW we cant do it with 2 cabinets. You know that shit. I know it. All I keep hearing is “if its not DR im not going” I dont here any realistic suggestions or solutions.