Ok you shoulda said that instead of that other statement.
The only thing I can suggest is if it gets pushed to saturday afternoon (2pm)…
Someone has to talk to Chris about getting a second machine. I don’t know him as well as other people…
wow i have never heard any1 whore moan like you before. Fuckin run that shit wit 2 machines. AND if u have pools like you did last year it wont be that big of a deal.
80 people. 16 Pools. Top 2 advance. 5 People per pool.
Each pool should take about 10-15 minutes. If you have 16 pools thats like 4 hours max and then a 32 man double elim bracket would take another 2 hours.max. 6 hours for a major? Thats not too bad if u ask me
2 machines is not enough for a dr major. im not going [although not because its t5], but i can tell you that all the ppl that are bitching. stfu.im sure theyve talked about it and discussed all valid points blah blah blah, unless someone is gettin fucked out of money. its all gravy. props to all thats running ecc.
bronson.
Wow, I’m curious as to how in the world you came up with those numbers?
80 people, 16 pools, 5 per pool. That means a total of 20 matches per pool if we’re talking a round robin format.
Hypothetically, 60 seconds per round, it goes max rounds max games(it is 2 out of 3 correct?) That means it is possible for just one match to about 15 minutes by itself. Then multiplied by 20, that could be 5 hrs. Granted thats just hypothetically speaking, I’ve never seen a Tekken round ever time out in T5 or DR. But still, 5 minutes a match on average still makes the pool over an hour, thats without having to find other players, or have players going to play in other tournaments while they are waiting for their turn in a pool. 2 machines cuts the time drastically, but not quite half the time. If you’re talking 16 pools, by experience I say with 2 machines it’ll take about 30-45 minutes a pool. So about 8-12 hrs for pools alone, and then 3-4 hrs for a 32 man bracket. Those numbers you put up are amazingly fast for a large scale national tournament.
Round Robin format was used in last year’s ECC…
I don’t think it’ll be a big number like last year, but it will still be a good turn out…
Dude who the fuck do you think you are? Whore moan? I’m trying to make accomadations for a game that I dont even play and then have to be insulted on this page by ingrates like you who dont see the effort people are putting forth to make shit shit happen for YOUR community. 8 on the break has ONE DR cab. ONE. ONE ONE ONE ONE ONE ONE ONE. I was saying that even IF the the arcade could get 2 cabinets for DR it still would be sufficient for ecc. Eat a dick.
josh dont talk like that sir. just tell him straight up. cancel that shit.
bronson.
I request this “owned” be stricken from the record since DSP’s claims are not reputable anymore since the majority of the “facts” he posted were proven untrue therefore questioning the validity of his other statements. It’s easy to “own” someone when you make up everything you use to “own” them.
But about ECC, it’s just it’s less than 2 months away and I saw little to no promotion. There’s no signs posted in the break (I know you live in CT/NY, but just make a flyer and I’d be glad to hang it up for you) - I’m sure threatening Viscant or whatever will help the WC come to ECC in some twisted way, but there’s other ways to get people to show up instead of being controversial or whatever. When I used to run the Thursday tournaments, just hanging up little signs got random people to show up who would never of known about it. Sure they’ll probably just go out in two, but I mean the main idea of ECC is just to get people together for some gaming, the way it is being marketed just seems like to the hardcore players. The vibe I got from reading the recent replies seems to be; it is our tournament, we’ll run it how we want, if you don’t like it don’t come, and I mean that’s pretty messed up. I don’t think when Todd founded ECC that was his plan, Phi did a good job of continuing Todd’s vision, but this seems like it’s going in a totally different direction. I realize that is impossible to accomodate everyone’s requests, but you seem to just take any criticism as an attempt to downplay what you’re doing/done which it isn’t.
About pools - maybe round robin pools aren’t the best idea (I actually did not want round robin pools), but how about double elim pools like last year? The main benefit of pools is you can get all your matches done at once and not have to wait around all day to play 3 matches, which is the worst part about going to tournaments. That way also if people know they don’t have to play anymore matches that day, they could go back to the hotel if they want - freeing up space at the break.
I also don’t understand how " he doens’t think Guilty Gear will get many entries on Friday" is not a valid complaint when on dustloop.com and romancancel.com and in this thread there’s posts about how NJ’s own GG players can’t even make it on Friday and how some of the mid-west players can’t make it if it’s on Friday and there are no posts that if it was held on another day than Friday I couldn’t make it. The GG community on the EC is already small enough and by having the tournament on a day where the locals can’t make it will severly hurt the numbers. Also, I believe the GG community is pretty tight in the sense that conversations will start happening like this ->> “Yo, you going to ECC? – Nah I can’t it’s on Friday”, then the person is like, lot of people can’t go so why should I go because no one will be there, domino type theory. I believe about half of the GG players traveled more than 3 hours to get to the break last year, how is it possible for them to get to the break on time Friday for registration/practice/matches? It’s pretty hard to get off on Friday espically since Monday is a day off too, not many jobs like to give their workers 4 day weekends. Plus, a lot of people came out of their way last year from the midwest and I bet they would come this year, but is it realistic to have them leave on Thursday afternoon to get here on time? For them ECC turns into a week long thing if it’s on Friday.
“We’re going to try to cram in 5-6 console stations as it is but we’ll be lucky if we can do even that”
You can easily fit 5 consoles in the back room (where DDR is - just ask Chris to move it), and since you seem to have the majority of stuff on console I bet you could rope off another area on the floor and fit 5 more. The Break is small, but I think you could easily fit 10 consoles in there and still have room for cabinets casual.
About the brackets taking 2X as long, for the pools why not just do this then. Make your 64 man bracket or whatever, then split the 64 man bracket into 8 8 man brackets! Then there you go, not so complicated anymore.
I guess another thing about having everything console is - did you talk to Chris the owner? In general he seems to be against the idea of consoles, which is why I suggested having 3S on the arcade. Last year he limited the amount of stuff on console and he was not even pleased about it (he thinks it costs him a lot of money), so I was wondering what he said when you told him ECC is becoming an almost exclusively console tournament (5 out of 7 tournaments are held on console).
Since you want to be mean to me when I was just trying to make comments you deemed as attacks, when will all this stuff be done and more “suggestions”.
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You are charging $10 cover fee for “Equipment”, why not front up some of this money yourself (like Phi does every year) and rent some T5: DR equipment, there’s at least two people in NJ alone who have their own T5: DR set up, why not seek them out and rent it from them for the weekend? For that you don’t even need to front money out of your pocket, cause by the time they show up you will have collected enough entry fees to pay them. Here’s the kicker, you don’t even need your own T5 cabinet - I have seen setups with people playing T5: DR on their regular TV. Why not do some research on the tekken boards and you can please the tekken community for relatively cheap. Let’s say you manage to find 2 people who will lend you their T5: DR setup (and supergun or whatever the namco version is) for $150/day, so you need $300 to borrow the 2 boards for the day, but by having DR instead of 5.0 you increase the Tekken attendence by more than 30 people which means you don’t lose any money at all compared to not running DR! I’m sure there’s at least two people out there who will lend their T5: DR setup for one day, espically if you’re paying them. Kick in the break’s T5: DR and you have 3 set ups [re: the controls - just use a PS2 pad, the cabinet does seem to have problems recognizing some pads, but you’ll have three setups so it’ll be okay since it just seems to be one type of controller] This is the point of the $10 cover fee, to help the tournaments run smoothly, not for Chris and not to pad the organizers pockets, it’s for the people and the tournament. The same thing goes for MVC2 - the break only really has 2 cabinets (Phi has one of his own I’m sure he’ll end up lending), I know Capcom doesn’t rent out MVC2 boards anymore, but there’s other arcades out there who probably wouldn’t mind [espically considering the state of arcades these days] renting out their MVC2 equipment for a weekend.
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When do you plan to run maintence of the break cabinets and install new sticks (which you need to buy with your own money and reimburse with the cover charge)? If you don’t know how to do it yourself, there’s a guy at the break called Ronny who you can pay to do it. It is better to get this done sooner than later because of what happened last year [it was done at the last minute leading the sticks to be very stiff and complaints, they need breaking in]
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Any sponsorship? I was actually in talks with a company that produces arcade sticks [hori] and we were working on a nice deal where they’ll donate some sticks to the console tournaments and in return all we had to do was promote them and any videos we release we just have to throw a 2 second logo of theirs with a link to their website on it, but I don’t know what you’re doing on vids now - I have tons of video equipment and was planning to direct capture everything, but not now - so the deal will probably fall through, but you could contact them and try to get some free stuff. Lot of company’s out there have huge budgets for promotion and they wouldn’t mind throwing like 1k out there or some free stuff, I mean last year Phi got tons of free sticks/pad/random crap and he didn’t even have to do anything.
If not any of those above things, where exactly is our $10 “cover charge” for equipment/boards/maintence/etc going to? I’m sure people would like to know, thanks.
Rob’s post > all
GGPO…
A lot of replies:
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I really didn’t figure that putting up posters at the break was going to affect anything, everybody knows when and where ECC is and you pretty much have to go to SRK to figure out the details anyway, regardless of flyers. Maybe putting up flyers at the break would bring an additional 5 people, but exactly as you’ve said, neither of us live in NJ near the break, so we had no means to put anything up anyway. As for other promotion, why do you think Josh and went to TS6, are going to Final Round, etc.? We are talking up a storm about ECC.
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After talking with Phi last night, pools are a good idea, just not round robin. The reason I was 100% against pools here is because pools in the very sense means round robin…what Phi has been doing the past few years is really 8 mini-double-elim brackets, of whom the winner of winners finals and losers finals qualify for top 16, which resets. I have nothing against this style of running the brackets as opposed to one huge double elim bracket, and since most players in the Pools poll seem to want pools, this is what we will go for. But full round-robin pools will NOT be happening due to time constraints.
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Guilty Gear entries really don’t matter to me in the least. I don’t know if you remember, but I was actually staunchly against even running Guilty Gear this year. It gets the least number of entries a lot of the time, it takes up lots of consoles and space, we need specialized consoles to have it (every one must be a Japanese PS2) and then usually the players split after the tournament, so we don’t even get to keep using their stuff for other tournaments…a big hassle when you have to start switching shit around when you’re trying to finish other games. ECC is, and always has been, a Capcom-centered tournament, and as long as the BIG FOUR get run properly - that is, CvS2, MvC2, ST and 3s - then we will be fine. However, after I proposed not having Guilty Gear, every fucking whiny player on the planet flamed me saying that I was being biased. So, since this game is the most intrusive of all games that will be played at ECC since we need to use Japanese equipment, we need to have it at a time that will not interfere with anything else…Friday. Pair that with the fact that the Guilty Gear players will not be forced to hang around the Break with non-Guilty Gear players, in a smelly and crowded environment, and will actually get some casual play in beforehand, and you’ve actually got a good deal if you play the game.
Seriously, the “I can’t come on Friday” argument is really weak to me. Last year, fucking SUPER TURBO was held on Friday and half the ST players didn’t even show up, and the sticks on only 2/3 cabinets worked. ST is one of the BIG FOUR and it got shit-ass treatment. But those who were dedicated ST players took the time off from work and got their asses to the Break. Street Fighter players have been making sacrifices for years to play their games, so don’t give me the sob story argument about how Guilty Gear players have lives too and they can’t take Friday off, because I’ve been there every year since I started going to ECC and any other 3-day fighting game major. If they can’t make it, then they are not dedicated enough players or they don’t have the balls to take Friday off, I don’t know what to tell you. ECC is not going to be dictated to by a handful of players who want to be pampered rather than sacrifice to keep their community alive.
If you really want to appeal to someone, it’s got to be Chaz from NYC. Chaz got 3rd at Slash in Texas and he’s going to be directing Slash at ECC. So if these Guilty Gear players have so many problems with a Friday tournament, have them contact him somehow. You know how I feel on the issue.
- No, nobody has talked to Chris, because as soon as Wigfall and I announced that we wanted to run ECC since Phi was not doing it anymore, it was quickly changed to “Phi has made up a team of guys to run ECC this year so he gets some time off.” Phi even said it to me in that way in an IM yesterday, which kind of made me do a double take, because I really did think that this thing was 100% in our hands, but apparently not. I barely know Chris, I talk to him maybe 10 minutes every ECC and maybe 1-2 times every break tournament. I don’t have his contact info, and I don’t have an established relationship with him. I’m not trying to be a dick at all here, but think of it this way: Since both Josh and I have no established relationship with him, and since you Rob and Phi do, why don’t you guys just let him know that Josh and myself will be directing the tournament this year, but that you guys will be helping (or at least backing us up to do so?)? That way, he’ll feel more at ease than just thinking that two nobodies are taking over ECC and are going to run it into the ground.
As for the “more console than ever” issue, I think the problem here is miscommunication. The $10 entrance fee, Josh and I both assumed, goes to the Break as rental space for all the console tournaments. In previous years, I actually did attempt to find out what happens to the entrace fee at tournaments, and every single time I attempted to find this out, I was met with resistance, as if it were some super-secret conspiracy. Josh and I plan to make ZERO dollars on ECC, in fact, with all the travel time, time off of work, equipment we’re lending, food we’ll be eating, hotel rooms, etc., we plan to lose a LOT of money on the venture. So get any notion that we’re pocketing funds out of your minds, because that is 100% wrong.
Here is the bottom line: between having the Break packed all weekend long with players on all cabs, and having his grill pretty much going all weekend with his really tasty breaksteaks, Chris is going to make a buttload of money regardless of if games are on console or cabinet. Sure, 3s may be on console, but I guarantee you people will be playing on the 3s cabs the entire weekend to get practice in. MvC2 will be packed all weekend as well, as will CvS2. The only games I foresee not being played are the broken CPS1s that never get play anyway…also, I’ll be running Alpha 2 and Alpha 3, so that’s more additional revenue for Chris since it will be pay-for-play. Let’s say that 125 players show up for ECC - that’s $1250 plus all money for casuals, and pay-for-play for ST and MvC2 which should be damned close to $750 or more, PLUS all the money he’ll make on the grill all weekend which is going to be a ridiculous amount as well. If he’s going to argue that he’s not making as much as if there were no ECC this year, he is just wrong. I guarantee that having ECC, even mostly on console as it will be this year, is going to make a buttload more money than having his usual 20 DDR players there and the rest being totally empty. Again, I’m not trying to be a jerk, I’m just being realistic, and if you think that Chris will complain that we took 3s off cabs and onto console, then somebody needs to explain to him how much money he’s making off ECC regardless of the one-game switch.
Now as for your comment that we’re not fronting anything, here is the problem: I have said time and time again that I am willing to donate my time, equipment, and talents to helping the community, but the one thing I really do not have is money. If you’re asking me to front $1000 to rent Tekken DR cabs, transport them to the Break (which will cost more than renting them), and then shell out another couple hundred bucks to buy controls for the cabs we will be playing on, the answer is I can’t. I am not rich by any means, I don’t live with my parents, I have a bajillion bills to pay and I simply don’t have the funds to do so. Trust me, if I ever got a decent paying job or I hit the lotto, the first thing I would do is run the most crazy series of pimped-out SF tournaments ever. But I just can’t do it. Now if you are suggesting we front money but then take it out of the entry fees later, that’s also unacceptable. That would be like gambling: Gee, I hope that we get 150 players so we can actually pay our $1500 bill that we wracked up getting equipment here! Pair that with the fact that I don’t have $1500 available in funds to front in the first place! I live day-to-day and as scary as that sounds, that’s life in America if you don’t live with your parents and can’t find a decent job.
The argument about renting Tekken DR cabinets is ridiculous and it’s not going to happen. Even if we go out of our way to locate the few people in NJ who own the cabs, now we have to negotiate to rent the cabs for the weekend, find a way to transport them to-from the break (which will be costly and time consuming, even if we just rent a fucking U-Haul truck) and then we’re responsible for moving them around, making space, getting them working, and then replacing the DR controls…which are different from every other American fighting game machine, ever. RIDICULOUSLY UNREASONABLE! I would have to take time off of work starting fucking Wednesday to start picking up these cabs, and then not go back until the next Wednesday to have enough time to clean up and drop them off. Get the fuck out of here! I really do feel bad, but Namco has buttfucked their own US gaming scene by not making DR for PS2 just so the ever-greedy Sony can sell PSPs. I think it’s assinine, but getting enough DR cabs to run a proper tournament at the Break is just not going to happen - just look at Ranma’s post about how it will take us at LEAST 8-12 hours to run this thing, and that’s hoping controls don’t break, and you will see why.
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Now, if we DO need new sticks for games like MvC2 and such, I might be able to front a couple hundred bucks for those, because that’s not a ridiculous amount of money. If we need this Ronny guy to install them, I would suggest the best time is opening time for the Break that Friday, since there will be no MvC2 singles tourney that day and will give at least a day to get the sticks broken in. Again, I won’t be able to take a freaking week off of work for this, so it will have to be done Friday morning, and if people don’t like the sticks, well that’s just the peril of playing on arcade cabs with shitty 360s. 360s are the fucking bane of fighting game players but besides a few people who were around before they were so prominent, nobody wants to admit it. SWITCH STICKS ARE 300% BETTER THAN 360s and if people would just get it through their heads, we would have so many better tournaments…oh well.
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I have not been able to get sponsorship because, as I’ve already said, it’s pretty much impossible when you’re not really running your own tournament. If Josh and I were taking 100% possession of ECC and were running it at a location we chose, then I would have no problem getting sponsors, and I guarantee you that I would be able to have gotten sponsors 6 months ago. But basically being “locked” into the break because, as Phi put it, “ECC is, was, and always will be run at the Break, because Chris Cotty has put so much into it, it is really HIS tournament” and then being told that we’re just “a team that Phi has put together to run ECC” is kind of counter-productive. Let’s be honest: Capcom of America no longer exists, Namco doesn’t sponsor local nobody tournaments, has anybody even heard from Sammy? The only hope would be to possibly get some sponsorship from game control makers like Nubytech or Hori, or maybe Bawls since we all drink so much of it. But again, there is miscommunication: nobody has come to me and said HEY PHIL! Last year we got sponsorship from Bawls and they donated $500 bucks for controls, it was great! All I’ve been told is that Nubytech donated a few of their HORRIBLE joysticks for the tournament last year for Anniversary Edition, which is so ridiculously laughable, I left my “prize” behind at the break after winning that tournament.
Rob, if you have been in talks with Hori about sponsorship and getting some free stuff for the tournament, PLEASE let me or Josh know about it so we can pick up where you left off. Having a few extra Hori sticks around is going to be VERY beneficial if somebody’s stuff breaks down, or if someone doesn’t have their own stick. Besides that, unless we can get some kind of monetary sponsorship from one of these companies, I really dont’ see how getting a “sack o’ junk” (forgive the figure of speech) is going to help us run ECC.
I hope that this post clears up some of the issues that have been addressed here, and ultimately helps us make ECC a better tournament.
EDIT: Just to let everyone know, my “R.I.P. Jay Snyder” Avatar was deleted by SRK faggot mods who thought it was offensive. So people can have huge, half-naked tits in their avatars, offensive language in their signatures, and flame people to shit on GD…but god forbid you try to do something funny and your name is DSP. FUCK YOU, whoever deleted my avatar, you are a pussy bitch.
I…
…nah thats a bad idea.
ahahahaahhaha LOLOLOL “you are a pussy bitch” classic :):)
lmao i musta laughed like 3 minutes straight.
god damn
I never go to ecc but its on console and not on shitty cf sticks so ill be there I think dsp is gonna do alryt.
Niggas love to take shit out on line in the eastcoast. Yall love fucking drama
I think canceling Tekken might be a good idea Phil.
I’m not all that hot for having it canceled, but it sounds like the way to go.
Oh and:
vs
;p
(filler)
You also notice that Todd didn’t make ridiculous exceptions and sacrifices for non-SF audiences. Todd was actually very against adding Tekken to the lineup of ECC for a very long time, although I can’t say it’s 100% because of time issues. But that’s why we’re having these issues with Guilty Gear. Hey, again, if Guilty Gear could be played on US PS2s these issues wouldn’t even exist…but I don’t want to be totally swapping PS2s and tvs and stations and shit in the middle of a tournament for the dumb reason that we need modded equipment. I want smooth transition between games and tournaments and MAXIMUM SPACE and time. That can’t happen if I shove all console games into 2 days.
Tekken DR is not going to happen in any way, shape or form. So if that’s that, and nobody is going to come for Tekken 5, we may as well cancel. This might be dumb but I’ll create a poll and see what we come up with. If we do cancel Tekken 5, that gives us a LOT of leeway time-wise, since undoubtedly Tekken would have taken a lot of time Sunday…that would actually work well, since we could do all CvS2, then lots of 3s Saturday, finish 3s first thing Sunday, then final 16 for both tournaments Sunday night. That would actually work really well…
Or you could fill guilty gear in in place of tekken. If its down to final 16 for both cvs2 and 3s on sunday, you should be able to fit guilty gear in there. Get the first two rounds done for them, then phase in guilty gear as less stations are needed for cvs2 and 3s. This does depend on how many stations will be running though, although I assume it would be enough considering originally t5 was planned to fit in there.
If guilty gear gets subbed in for tekken, would it be possable to at least attempt tekken on friday then? Possable DR since the break will be the least crowded then?
(I highly doubt i’ll be entering tekken either way, just throwing out random ideas)
And it takes a whole 5 minutes to swap a couple ps2s. 10 minutes if you count the one left in a car a mile away.
That’s why I said push it to saturday… DR might get a good turnout and if it does, we can finish either on that day or on sunday.
I won’t mind running and does Steve H…
HUGE UPDATE:
I have edited the very first post with fully UPDATED ECCXI rules, scheduling, sponsorship info, and hotel links. ALL LINKS WORK NOW! Please go check it out for newly updated info!
Phil, good shit for moving MvC2 on Saturday. Im sure there will be sufficent time for me to travel home afterwards.