Dragonball Z: Sparking! Neo! (Budokai Tenkaichi 2) for PS2 and Revolution

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
41

yeah the games improved alot

theres sweeps, options all over the place, its much more deeper, dodging moves has a smaller window now too, the timing is more precise

its not dull like BT1

were saying it as it is, its only been out a few days so cant really say if its better than B3, but its DEFFinetly a larger game

its deep and fun wen u get further so ill say its better

i have the game and im not saying its tekken or 3s but it has depth, you should always take a grain of salt anyway its fucking dbz

42

rush attacks are still to powerfull for what they are.

43

Spike intended on making this game deeper than before. They’ve done pretty well too.
This game is all about the mix-ups. The mix-ups become so damn confusing. Like when you’re fighting a skilled SSj4 Gogeta, you really don’t know if he’s gonna try and guard break you with a left, right, up, or down aimed charge attack, or if he’s gonna trip you, break your guard or send you reeling with a ki blast, knock you up in the air with a lift strike, melee dash to put himself in an offencive and defencive position and from there, either use trip, gut stun, lift strike, square charge attack, basic rush combo, etc. The amount of viable options you have to get by someone on the defence is just enourmous.

Defending isn’t fun at all. You can try to rely on blocking in any of the five directions and hope to parry a charge attack or guard yourself from a trip. Or you can try and teleport, but if your SSj4 Gogeta opponent picks up on that, he can easily just cancel his charge attacks, and keep attacking you and putting pressure on you. It gets annoying to defend his flying kicks, because you have to block upwards to defend that, but that just gives him dozens of other ways to get through your high guard. If you choose to take it though, he can just combo you aton, and you really have to hope you can teleport one of his charge attacks. And being able to teleport to appear a small distance away from you, right in front of you, or to the sides can really build up alot more pressure, and throw you into more confusion.

Keep in mind there’s alot more offencive powerhouses than just SSj4 Gogeta.
But yeah, BT2 has amazing potential. We just need more skilled players to confirm it. I’ve been playing this for almost a month (I got the demo as well) and I can say I’m really impressed, and the complete overhauling of the engine completely threw me off. Luckily, the old problems of BT1 (very slow canceling, random parries to escape combos and really effective sidesteps) are all gone. I’m not gonna make any claims about this game being really deep and stuff like that, but I can say the mix-ups are massive. Its safe to say that the game is far more complex than your basic highs/lows.

44

much more complex and a surprise that diffrent forms really are diffrent

i think from that there really is 120 characters, theres so many defensive options so i can believe that

45

You don’t have to use directional blocking unless you’re absolutely sure they’re going to do a particular move, though. Use the step-in (X in close combat) to dodge any heavy moves the opponent does. If they fake you can just one-hit teleport out of the way or sway back if your character has that. Regular blocking is just fine for everything except kiai cannon moves and fully charged stuns, but you shouldn’t be just standing still and letting them charge up a move, hey?

The game is really good, but the characters ARE still all clones of each other. The only differences are which supers the character has (projectile or rushing type), if they can do Blast Shield or not, and if they can transform. It’s a fun game, but it’s way broken if you manage to land a solid hit. Check this month’s Tips & Tricks for some broken arsed combos. I managed to link an inescapable combo with standard non-edit characters that does way over 100%, it kills pretty much anyone somewhere in the middle of the combo, except giant characters.

N

46

i really like Trunks (W/O sword) in this game, it’s way too fucked up doing a blocked string that leads into a guard crush, that then leads into hitting someone into a backturned state, hitting them with an inescapable string, sidestepping into another string, knockback-launching someone and capping it off with a big ass fireball…really crazy shit, i’m having a lot of fun with it

also, it’s OVER NINE THOUUSAAAAND

47

i dont know if anyones noticed yet but you can parry with the ki-guard any max rush supers, it makes u dizzy but it creats a guessing game with the circular rush super movement

this game has alot to offer i keep finding things, i wonder if this game will be broken for long…??

48

Stepping in with X isn’t always reliable. You first have to be sure that they’re truly going to go through with a charge attack, instead of doing things like flying kicks, teleports, canceled charges, etc. If they fake a charge attack, it’s very easy to use basic square hits afterwards, or they can fire a ki blast to completely nullify a step in. Stepping in with X can be very reliable against giant characters though.
Also, swaying on it’s own isn’t effective against rush combos. You can’t block immediately after a sway, so if you sway in the middle of a rush combo, you’re going to get hit. If your character has swaying in combination with a ground slash, gut stun, flying kicks, invisible ki blast or lift strike, then it’s deadly. Otherwise, swaying on its own is meant to dodge single hit attacks. Also, if a character can only sway in combination with those power attacks, it can actually be a dead give away as to what you’ll do. If you see Base Goku swaying from a step in, you know for sure he’s gonna go for a gut stun. But with SSj2 Goku, you won’t know if he’s gonna ground slash, gut stun or lift strike. Huge difference there.

And there’s far more differences than blast moves and transformations between characters. I just explained how Base Goku and Piccolo are a bit different. Here are just a few things to also consider:
What the characters do from a parry stance (do they parry and grab, parry and attack, teleport, or sway)
What triangle options do the characters have from basic rush combo hits (because believe it or not, when and where you can perform a certain triangle hit can have a huge effect when attacking)
If the character can step in, do they sway before using any of the power attacks, what move (flying kicks, invisible ki blast, gut stun) do they do with just hitting triangle?

There’s alot of differences in the overall movesets. Some characters will be really similar. But some characters are VERY different from others. Saying Majin Vegeta is a clone of Burter is absolute madness.

Also, what are some of those broken combos? I play against my cousin every once in awhile, and even when I combo into a step in, and use the second rush combo and go for power moves, he’ll actually end up teleporting some of my power attacks. If I hit him up in the air with a lift strike, and he enters the recovering frames, I instantly go for a finishing move, but he somehow teleports out of the way. I can get pretty high combos with guys like Chiaotzu though, because its really easy to chain uncharged square attacks together with rush combo hits.

49

Rush attacks don’t “stun” you by default at the beginning, that’s the thing. Unless your character is super-weak defensively (Hercule or the like) you can respond with a rush combo of your own. The only things that stop your movement completely are Heavy Stun or Flying Kicks. If they start a rush combo and you haven’t been “stunned” yet, you can just (provided you have meter) tap square and then left/right+circle to teleport out of their attacks. Rush combos in and of themselves don’t do anything unless they tack on a heavier move, and you can just block/teleport those.

I try not to just repost stuff I’ve already written in the mag (buy the damn issues, people!) but the main components of stringing death-combos together are Transforming and Tagging. You know how there’s that buffer-time between supers to keep you from just re-doing them over and over? Transforming/tagging removes it.

Example: It’s funny, no-sword Trunks is my favorite character too.

Pick Mirai Trunks. Launch with Up+square, chase with up+square/triangle, then do his physical/rush super. Change to SS1 Trunks, do the super again. Change back to normal Trunks, do it again.

That’s a really basic explanation, but you can see how some characters (Goten!) could abuse it a lot more, ya?

N

50

Really? Unless your character has wall traits, I’m quite sure rush combos completely stop you in your tracks.
Also, if you do a full rush combo, and then hit X to step in and do another rush combo, you do the character’s secondary chain, which provides a much longer stun time than usual. This also happens if you land a weak level square charge attack, land flying kicks and immediately rush combo, or use any of the finishers and combo quickly afterwards. This can be used to chain rush combo hits into power attacks, although this isn’t always reliable. However, it can easily max out the growth of your charge meter, and you may have a very easy time going right through a defender.

And that combo is an interesting example. I assume you mean a fully charged up square attack comboed into a dragon homing up square attack then into a super. Just keep in mind that if the victim recovers tapping O fast enough, they can easily teleport out of the way, and if they’re falling down at any point, rushes will not connect.

51

You can’t recover from the blow-away effect at the end of the super, not even with a program pad. The engine just isn’t built that way. That wasn’t a real combo setup I was posting, just a lazy example of what I was talking about to show the effect working.

The opening attacks of a rush combo are shrugged off if you’re doing one yourself, yes? You don’t go into hitstun, you keep attacking as well. Rush combos in and of themselves don’t do much damage, so it’s not a big deal. You can just hold block until they try something. As soon as they start charging for a defense-breaking move, you’re free to step/throw/whatever. If they release it early, it’ll get blocked clean (no matter what direction) and their momentum is gone. If they hold it, you have way too much time to hit them unless you’re hella committed to just turtling up for no reason. The mixup game isn’t always on the attacker’s side.

Pick up this month’s issue of Tips & Tricks, I laid it all out pretty clean. If you still don’t see what I’m talking about I’ll just mail you the five bucks it cost.

N

52

Well, keep in mind that two characters performing rush combos on each other doesn’t always happen. If it happens often, that just means the players are severely limiting their starters. There’s dozens of ways to start combos rather than just using your basic rush starter, and your options also depend on your char. And the different starters have different advantages/disadvantages. Square isn’t always the best starter.

Rush combo hits may not deal much damage (some characters can deal a nice amount of damage with rush combos, like SSj4 Gogeta), but the fact that each rush combo hit builds your charge meter growth makes them worthwhile. If you get hit by any attacks of the first rush combo (although against some characters, you can actually block them if they land the first hit, like Burter), they can easily chain it into their second rush combo, which will usually max out charge meter growth. And for any character who gets their charge meter maxed out, they’ll put alot of pressure on the defence.

Now, you mention this:

You’re talking specifically about a portion of the characters in the game, the characters who have slower growing charge meters. The charge meter growth initally varies per character. Face any character with a faster charge meter (there are MANY characters with fast growing charge meters) and you’ll find that there isn’t exactly much time to think and react at all. Some of your time is spent reacting, and that can easily be just the time the powerful offence needs to get by your defence, depending on how many rush combo hits the offence recently landed, and the character that the offence used. In some cases, you literally have to predict a charge attack coming and be ready to react at any given time, but the offence can just use that against you and do things like flying kicks and teleports.

53

Are we even playing the same game?

Ok, someone starts hitting you. Hold the block button, even though you’re getting hit already. Now, in order to actually hurt you, they’re going to have to attempt SOME move with some lag on it. When that happens, hold block until you know they’re actually going through with it, then either step or teleport out of the way. I don’t know how to make it more easy to understand than that, it’s really that simple. Unless your opponent is doing hella crazy 1-hit setups and has infinite meter or something that should be the most amount of “work” you have to do.

You’re talking like I haven’t been playing this game for the last 4 months straight. I know what I’m saying.

N

54

all this talk about rush attacks, fact is there still to good for what they are. Also not all rush attacks cant be teleported away from, so this teleport buisness doesnt even matter vs some of them. Also blocking them is useless since it wastes to much meter to block it, and rush attacks dont lose any meter unless they hit in the first place. PLUS even if you tried to block it the fact that you can control rushes to always hit from the back etc and then there not even blockable in the first place. Plus the fact that you can control them now means that even trying to hit them is pretty futile since you can just hold to the side to avoid the attack… that is unless of course you use some BS example like gogeta who just hits every fucking direction at once.

Also if anyone has a programable control or fast fingers or bored should try to see if they can get that counter cancle durning strings to be a infinte. Ive deffintly gotten it to combo before but as for a infintie who knows… shrug

55

oops my bad, i read to fast and just saw rush, and assumed you all were talking about rush supers… never mind my post or something…

56

The laziest way to get away from rush supers is to just pick a character with a Blast1 Shield, like Android 17. You’re right though, they’re way, way too strong to be unblockable, especially when you can loop them together (like with Goten).

N

57

When someone starts hitting you, that just means the opponent can chain you into their second rush combo, which means they can easily chain into any attack with lag.
Stepping in becomes a null strategy at this point, and you have to hope that you can fit in a teleport, or a blast 1 move that will let you escape. Otherwise, you just have to wait for your opponent to make a mistake that might let you escape early, or for them to finish their combo.

Your situation will happen if and only if the opponent can not chain their 1st rush combo into the 2nd rush combo without failure. Otherwise, once they land the 2nd rush combo, you have to completely change your defencive strategy to hoping you can fit in a teleport, escape with a blast move, or hope the offence messes up.

Edit: Sorry if I’m talking as if you don’t know what you’re talking about, I was kind of worried that would happen. I don’t mean to come off like that. But the thing is, you’re assessing all of these situations as if this game was clone city, where every character is the same. This isn’t true at all. I’m assessing the situations based on where the characters are different overall. If you assess the situations like that as well, we may end up playing the same game.

58

I didn’t think I’d ever say this for a DBZ game, but you know how you guys can solve this?

Money match.

[[I’ve really enjoyed reading this thread (and will be purchasing BT2 regardless of what is said in here, because it sounds like a bigger, badder, brokenner [I just made that up, suckas] BT), just wanted to clarify I’m not trolling at random.]]

59

Tenkaichi 2 is a fun game indeed. One thing i found out about rush supers is that u can just throw a fireball or 2 to tag em the do a rush super behind them. If your behind the fireball it will hit them and they wont have time to fortress block (triangle and circles together). i think they should make it that rush supers deplete your bar once u do it. Since it doesnt even if someone were to blast u away with a shield super u could just wait and do it again. (not that i play like that but im just saying u could)

I dont know i think some blast shield supers absorb some stuff better than others. Tapion’s shield super seemed too good. Plus Jiece is the fkin man in that game , that guy is too cool. His Crusher ball super owns for free, since he can use that instant sparkling move so frequently. I was playing with some friends and it seemed like the couldnt black jiece’s ultimate, maybe they just cant block.

I heard somewhere that u can do sparkling like combos without sparkling, like combos with more than 2 teleports, but hey i could be wrong. I dont know if its happened to u guys but sometimes during a match my character gets locked in a blocked stat and cant get out for a lil bit.

Whats this i hear about a death combo? IT cant be tele-countered?

60

i made someone dizzy with tapions flute wen they tried to rush super me, maybe a well timed move can make all the difference…

btw u CAN stop it with a well timed hit, espeacially with people who have long reach attacks like normal tapion.

my gripe right now is vegeta ssj4 who has turn hits, 1 bar a hit dragon rush and a reliable rush super.

ki blocking rush supers is stupid cos it leaves you dizzy making it a hell of “how the hell do i get out of this shit!?” hopefully ill find something :confused: