Some thoughts on your videos; not meant to criticize, but just to improve your play in some ways: Video 1
After 3D0C at 1:20, your opponent recovers between Dark Hole and Chaotic Flame. I’m not sure if you’re aware, but even if you cancel Dark Hole on its first active frame, the entire move will go through, so there’s no reason to hold back on the Chaotic Flame cancel to maximize your damage.
You have to be careful about Skrull’s Meteor Smash, because it has invincibility frames a little after it starts up.
What does your opponent have against blocking? Haha.
Can’t you do part of the second half of Gamma Charge with Hulk before you use Gamma Tsunami after an air combo? I think I’ve seen this before, and it gives you more damage.
Otherwise, nice play. Do Hulk users just prefer j.H over j.S because of the potential for an option select throw? It doesn’t actually seem to be a superior attack to me when I play him.
Video 2:
Your opponent seems much stronger in this one - it was more enjoyable to watch.
Using c.M naked is pretty dangerous, especially if you cancel into launcher - you’re just asking to get killed when you do that unless your opponent is overconfident. c.L, c.H is faster and safer if the c.L whiffs, and then you can cancel into Flame Carpet if the series is blocked, which gives you frame advantage.
Hmm, that’s about it. You just got outplayed, but didn’t really make any “mistakes”, you know? I love your opponent’s Wolverine - haha, I know it’s your video, but he handles the character well. I suppose you could have called more Hulk assists to help out Dormammu’s spacing, and I think you’d benefit from using his trijump H cross-ups against Wolverine and Wesker; especially Wesker, since he doesn’t have a good anti-air. A nice way to circumvent the teleporters is to just rush.
Video 3:
Why didn’t you relaunch with Sentinel at 0:55? Honest question, I don’t play the team.
I think, again, you were dying to Wolverine here because you were too grounded, and used a naked s.S, which is very punishable, especially by a character like Wolverine.
At 3:00, I really think you should have DHCed into Sentinel and then X-Factored for the kill on Wolverine. His Magneto hasn’t shown to be anything impressive thus far, while Wolverine has been wrecking Dormammu and Sentinel.
Woah @ the damage on Sentinel at 3:46, hahaha. Note to self in the future!
I love those random Hulk j.S cross-ups!
Really nice throw at 9:50
I’ve noticed you have a strong tendency to jump backward with Dormammu; it’s a problem I also have, and I think Dormammu players everywhere need to work on moving beyond the “I need to jump back and try to create space” mindset, because he just doesn’t have a lot of options when jumping backward like that, unlike a character like Sentinel, who has massive range on j.S on approachers, or characters like Amaterasu, who can mix it up by air dashing.
I love the Wesker teleport punishes you do - very nicely done. Hulk is without a doubt your strongest character.
13:19 is a really weird bug(?). You should report that. It kind of looks like Wolverine is wall bouncing, but it’s not a wall bounce effect. Any idea what causes it?
Feel free to share for the matchup section - I haven’t played many.
It is much harder to hit confirm, but that’s better than dying, haha. If you’re feeling paranoid, you can always just cancel it into Flame Carpet ASAP - at worst, you lose a combo opportunity and deal a bit of damage. At best, you dealt some cheap, gained some space, were safe the entire time, and have frame advantage. I’m working on it, too. Things are even worse for hit confirming from his trijump - oi! I’m going to start cataloging which characters c.M whiff on, and when.
Yeah, I think, more than most characters, Dormammu really has to know his matchup, because so much of what he has to handle is character-specific. He has an answer for everything, but you need to actually know what your opponent can do, and what he will do, to provide that answer. Contrast that with a character like Wolverine, which is basically Berserker Slash, c.L, and Dive Kick spam until you win or die, regardless of your opponent. Dormammu has this weirdness in that he’s a spacing character, but the spacing on his normals isn’t quite as massive as Sentinel, so you have to test everything individually to really know what beats what.
My best advice is to just superjump into df dash H if you’re not sure what to do. It’s a pretty safe approach because the dash comes quickly, the attack crosses up and comes at an angle that most attacks can’t respond to anyway, and it’s completely safe if it gets blocked. I know a lot of people were impressed by MastaCJ at a recent tournament using Dormammu, but really, the only thing the guy does is spam this approach, and he beats really good players like Josh Wong, just because it’s a hard approach to defend against even if you know how to handle it, and most people don’t know how to handle it.
What’s even more frustrating than losing to X-Factor is losing because you don’t completely know how to play one of your characters. I hate dominating someone with Dormammu, and then Dante comes in, who I am still awful with, and I’m so free it’s maddening.
Maybe someone here will be kind enough to record and reproduce it.
Good matches, Astaroth. I had NO idea that you could just launch with Dormammu after an air throw lol. Not sure why I never thought of trying that before…
Here are some matches of me vs. some Socal beasts from last week’s UCI Ranbat:
Some more footage (my first match vs AndyOCR and my match vs Noname, a nasty Trish player) can be found in the Justin.tv archive. I’ve come up with some new tricks since then, so I’ll try to do better next time!
Also maybe it’s just me, but I think Wesker is pretty managable for Dormammu if he doesn’t have an assist to protect his teleport (namely a Beam) and setups. Though most play him 1st/2nd, so the chances of that aren’t too common.
In corners, after the air throw you can just mash S, and the j.S will whiff but give you just enough recovery to s.S and launch at a good height. I generally do this because I’m too nervous to get the timing right on my own. Also, since you have Tron Bonne on your team, you can dash forward and Flame Carpet + Gustaff Fire to launch after an air throw as though it were a normal relaunch situation.
Your videos: Video 1:
I’m actually reviewing this video last, so my comments might reflect that; at the very start you can see the shortcomings of Gustaff Fire. I’m actually not sure why you start out walking backward, because you move too slow to really create space from Wolverine, and everything Dormammu does is too slow to really give you the results you want. When I used Dormammu/Tron/Sentinel, I start the match walking into my opponent, and I jump and j.H while calling Tron assist at the same time. If my opponent jump with me, I air throw; if he techs, he falls into Gustaff Fire. If he doesn’t jump, Gustaff Fire connects, and I often get a combo at the start.
Haha, love that finish with Akuma.
You’re being much more aggressive with Dormammu up close in that last match than you have been for the others, and it’s really paying off for you.
Video 2:
Have you tried c.M against Magneto’s aerial game? I often find that the squat hitbox is much more effective than one would think against aerial approaches. It seems like your primary defense here is to just block and wait for Gustaff Fire to come back up. None of my regular opponents use Magneto, so I’m not in the knowledge of this.
It seems like Magneto and Wolverine both showcase the limitations of Gustaff Fire. Gustaff Fire doesn’t cover the vertical angle well, and Magneto loves to create an onslaught of superjump mix-ups; it’s very difficult to time well against him, and often I see him just dash past it or be unaffected entirely. Since Berserker Slash has invincibility frames, he frequently ignores Gustaff Fire entirely and gets both Dormammu and Tron Bonne.
I notice you trying to create space against Magneto a lot, but is that really to your advantage? In my own experiences, Magneto outplays Dormammu at range pretty well with EM Disruptor spam, and it’s very difficult to snuff on reaction. Since Magneto is highly mobile but is outranged by Dormammu, I wonder if it’s best for you to rush in this match-up. You did best against Magneto when you tried to, it seems.
I think the worst thing to do against Wolverine is sit on the ground. Berserker Slash’s invincibility frames let him waltz through Flame Carpet and Gustaff Fire, so, regardless of your attentiveness, you’re bound to get hit eventually, possibly along with Gustaff Fire (which happened multiple times in the video). The vast majority of your damage here came from Flame Carpet and Gustaff Fire, both of which you aren’t actually able to hit confirm from because, in the first case, you are trying to back up and create space, and in the latter, because Gustaff Fire pushes your opponent too far back.
Video 3:
Not much to say here, the matches were all pretty quick and he was getting in on you pretty well. Like I said for Video 2, I think this is part of realizing the limitations of Gustaff Fire. While it’s an awesome assist, Dormammu can’t really do anything off of it half the time since it pushes your opponent out of launching distance.
Anyway Wentinel, have you ever given consideration to dropping Tron Bonne? After seeing your team the first time, I played it for a few hundred games, and the more I played, the more I felt like Tron Bonne just wasn’t doing what I really needed. Since then, I’ve swapped her for Dante, and Jam Session, while not invincible like Gustaff Fire, has given me the tool I need to have a healthy sense of space. One of the main issues Dormammu has is that he has no way to create space without running away; Flame Carpet, Dark Hole, and Purification all don’t cause any kind of knockback on block. Dark Matter does, but we all know that’s a huge risk to use up close. Jam Session pushes your opponent back to about half-screen and lasts a very long time.
I wish I had a way to record videos of my gameplay, haha. I’d love to get feedback. Hopefully more and more people will do this, because I think it’s good for everyone to look at gameplay, what is being done, and what could be done, in a public setting.
What I’ve been doing now for max damage is after the air throw, I’ll air dash forward S, land, c.H, S. You just have to be sure that the air throw is high enough that you’re able to air dash afterward. With the air dash S, this also works midscreen.
I feel that being up close at the start of the match is dangerous against some chars like Wolverine and Magneto, mainly because they have good ground and air throws, while Dorm only has a good air throw. I used to always jump forward and j.H + call Tron at the start of every match, but this can be countered if they start with s.A, s.C (ground throw attempt) or if they wait a split-second and then counter air-throw me right after I jump. Overall, after considering the available options, I decided it was better to just back off at the start so that there’s no chance of me getting thrown/air-thrown, and then I can call Tron, put down a flame carpet, and create some space for myself, which puts me in a spot that is definitely in my favor.
Yeah, c.M is pretty good against Magneto (and against aerial attacks in general), but since he’s so fast, it’s hard to consistently antiair him with it, and one mistimed c.M can lead to a dead Dorm. Especially against ytwojay, who I play with all the time, I’m reluctant to just throw it out since he’s very familiar with the matchup and is aware of Dorm’s options. Usually, most Magnetos are pretty free for my Dormammu
Tron assist definitely has limitations, but I still think it’s the best assist in the game. It covers the vertical angle well enough, imo. And it has so much invincibility that you can pretty much just spam it out without consequence. Just having this ability forces the opponent to slow their game down and be careful about their offense. Berserker slash goes through it, but that is the case with any assist (except Haggar’s lariat).
I’m not too worried about EM disruptor spam. If they’re full screen, you can sorta just throw out s.M safely and a lot of the time you’ll catch their EM, and then you can just super. If they’re not spamming EM, you can be charging up Dark Spells. I really don’t think it helps Mag to be at range against Dorm. Dorm has so many zoning tools that it generally is better to just play keepaway in most matchups. I’ll usually just go for rushdown when I can get Sentinel’s drones out safely, but this isn’t always possible.
A good Wolverine is probably the matchup I struggle with the most. You’re right that being on the ground is dangerous, but being in the air seems just as dangerous to me. Wolverine’s standing normals are so fast and have such good hitboxes that I feel like being airborne doesn’t really help. And you’re at risk of getting air-thrown. Maybe you can upload a video of yourself vs. a good Wolverine so you can show me what to do, cuz I definitely need help lol. The main thing is that I don’t know what to do against Berserker Slash.
Tron assist is especially bad here because Andy has Haggar, which all but much makes Gustaff Fire useless. I was joking with him that I should just pick Dorm/Haggar/Sent against him.
I’ve thought about switching out characters from my team, but if anything, I’d probably swap out Sentinel. Dante was one of the first characters I started learning, and while Jam Session is a good assist, I feel that it’s too risky in this game to call out assists defensively unless they have good invincibility (like Tron, Haggar, Hulk). The thing about Tron assist is that you don’t have to worry as much about always having space, because if they get in on you, Tron is there to get them off of you. I’ll probably stick with my team until Evo.
Interesting, I’ll have to mess with that. I want to add a bit in the main guide about how each of Dormammu’s air normals affect the opponent - it’s really fun to play with them and see how each combination affects your opponent. After Jam Session + Mass Change M, I used to do j.MHS, s.S, but I found that j.MMS, s.S is far more consistent, just because of how j.H affects an opponent.
Interesting situation. I’m not a fan of how MvC3 lets you move around pre-match; I know you could in MvC2, but assists were much stronger then, and Captain Commando always had my back…
I experienced this differently; because Tron’s Gustaff Fire is such a good assist, I found myself relying on it too much, and my defenses became a bit predictable.
I wish I could upload videos, but I don’t have any way to record myself. Otherwise the main thread would be filled with video tutorials put together by me, haha. Instead I have to rely on the generosity of others.
For a video demonstration of what I’m talking about, though check out a video of MastaCJ; I don’t think his Dormammu is particularly amazing, but his gameplay demonstrates how very effective j.H spam can be because of the speed and angle of the move, and he’s not even using assists to back him up while he does it.
Hmm, or maybe Iron Man’s Repulsor Blast would help? I always feel like this might make a good assist for Dormammu, but I’ve never really messed with it. I also like Hidden Missiles for this reason - they protect Dormammu from teleports. If only this game were 4v4, I could completely cover myself!
In favor of who? Is he still there mostly because of the assist?
I actually use the Dante assist a little differently. One of my big issues with Dormammu is that even if you create enough space for a moment when they’re close to you, Flame Carpet chips, and then you’re back to square one, with a small frame advantage. If you call Flame Carpet with Jam Session, Jam Session starts up right as Flame Carpets damage/chip ends, so it allows you to create space. That, or I’ll call Jam Session, and during its startup time, I superjump and Mass Change M. This protect Dante and makes Jam Session cross-up, and then I get a full combo. If my opponent happens to hit Dante, I’m on the other side now, so I can punish if he wants to follow-through. I generally throw it out pre-emptively, not when my opponent is already on me, unless it’s a speed demon like Wolverine, then I stick to the air.
WHAT UP GUYS! Been gone for awhile! Works been kicking my ass! Still working on Dorm and Thor, and I wanted to knock some rust off. I recorded the videos, and wanted to put them up here. These are casuals of course. I haven’t read through all of the posts yet, but i’ll get to it and see if there’s anything new going on. Dorm+Thor equals a crapton of fun!
I don’t like to criticize the “style” of play, so i will write only things that are objectively mistake.
Vid1: there’s no point in activating a level 1 xfactor for killing with chip damage if your opponent has his XF available.
Vid2: after a connected purification you can always do chip damage with another purification done with the same attack.
Vid3: after a 3D0C you can use a dark hole before the chaotic flame and you can use a dark hole also after a Chaotic flame XFC (you would have killed that Thor).
Vid4: you made this video private
Vid5: Thor OCV, you didn’t even use Dorm lol
In english, saying something like “critique away!” or “hate away!” means to perform the associate verb without restraint; critique as much as possible, in other words.
Video 1:
Oh snap, you use my title that I’ve had since day 1.
What were you trying to do at the end of your combo at 1:00?
Why the Mighty Tornado at 2:00? AFAIK, this never combos.
I actually think this is a good X-Factor - I think it’s a good idea to force it on your own terms, at full screen. You could have fit a Purification in before the Chaotic Flame for more chip, though.
With how much time you spend in the air, I’m wondering why you use Plasma Beam. It doesn’t do much for Thor; is it mostly there for Dormammu? I would strongly consider switching to Hidden Missiles. It’s still amazing for Dormammmu, and it would help Thor more.
Overall, no real complaints - I thought your Thor play was solid.
Video 2:
Why is Dormammu’s blue flame head so popular?
Where was the follow-up from Mighty Hurricane @ 0:24?
Random hyper @ 0:28?
1:20 why did you not kill him with Chaotic Flame (XFC) Dark Hole, Chaotic Flame?
1:30 another missed opportunity to kill.
1:40 no advancing guard against Chaotic Flame, and you can punish Chaotic Flame with Chaotic Flame.
Video 3:
@1:48 you can definitely fit a sj.M in there both times
@1:55 you can fit a Dark Hole in there before Chaotic Flame
@2:00 you can also fit a Dark Hole in there before Chaotic Flame #2!
@2:07 I’m not sure what your goal is with calling Plasma Beam during the trijump; you’re just knocking them out of your combo. Again, I think Hidden Missiles would be better for this team, especially since you’re not prone to using the Mass Change mix-up Plasma Beam provides.
Do you play on an analog stick? I notice a lot of your DPs come out at jumps.
Video 4:
Private, can’t view.
Video 5:
@1:57, I think you should have Mighty Thunder DHC into Chaotic Flame to punish the Foot Dive
Ok i’m at work so I can’t view the videos, so I’ll try to explain some of the stuff I did and why. Honestly, some of it is just rust or slow reaction time on my part. With Dormammu especially, I have got my self into a comfort zone, and I kind of just work around what I know. The vids and critiques are for me to improve so thanks a lot!
P.S. - I’ll check vid 4 too. Shouldnt’ be private…
Can someone give notation on the air throw combo video thats been posted, after seeing it I tried a few different ways and can’t figure out what it is.
Wentinel, before we talked about how to handle Wolverine, and I suggested taking to the air; check at ~6:00 here for MastaCJ fighting Wolverine in this manner, and except for some execution errors, everything goes pretty well: Justin.tv
Alright I just wanna say quickly in case anyone doesn’t know. Whenever you come across a situation such as 10:48 where you know they’re gonna tag, do :l: Mass Change and it puts you in directly above their tagged in character for a full punish.
EDIT: It’s kinda “meh” how effective Dormammu superjump > air dash :s:. Good stuff from CJ though.
