Will that stop anything else he can do? I can see it stopping neutral jump, which most Sagats do, but what about the other things? It’s a good tactic for footsies like you said but what if he does something different at start like a normal that could possibly hit Honda out of HHS.? Knowing Sagat he could probably end it right there.
Guile’s super: I believe this was in HDR and ST, but I think you can cross him up if you do it early enough. Problem is you usually never knock down (good)guiles so that hes close enough for a cross up.
T.Hawk uppercut: I don’t think that stuffs his upper. I would just stick with meaty headbutt.
What it loses to is Sagat’s forward jump. Against everything else it either wins, or goes even and you got some meter, so it’s a good deal overall.
Unlike his flash kick, Guile’s super is crossup-proof. Try to cross him up and you will just eat his super every time. That redbox is pretty huge, and Guile stays invincible a really long time.
Far meaty sweep doesn’t stuff his upper, but at some distance it makes the upper whiff, like Deejay’s upkicks. I just don’t remember if that distance is close enough to actually hit him out of a non-reversal. Meaty headbutt will just cleanly lose to upper though, pretty risky for a measly chip hit.
You sure you can’t even time it so that only a macro/computer can reversal? Sometimes I’ll try to hit my opponent so that if the he/she tries to do reversal it will hit.
Why are we debating this? You knock THawk down you just back up and go back to holding down+back, LOL.
Hawk’s SRK seems like it has a lot of start-up, I don’t know the exact frame data. I find it rather easy to safe-jump. If he reversals, you block and punish with Fierce Headbutt. If he blocks you do a HHS or Headbutt combo for chip and to push yourself back. If it hits do a headbutt combo (you can try a HHS combo->Ochio, but if the Hawk player isn’t caught off gaurd he’ll SPD you after HHS, putting you on ground and in bad situation. Not worth the risk IMO unless it would end the round or you’re behind).
Exactly what I’m saying. It’s pretty risky to do upper seeing that you really wont be able to do it on reaction. It may not be a 100% stuff yo shit tactic, but It’s still pretty good.
The really good players can do it often enough that it’s not worth it (you get hit clean and knocked down, where Hawk wants you). Like I posted in the post earlier, if I’m going to pressure Hawk on wake-up I’m goint to go for the safe jump followed by a combo. Less risk, more possible reward.
It was definitely a rollback. I’ve FAB’ed laggy people and ended being dp’ed or thrown in a rollback after the super flash. My super meter depleted, I grabbed them, the meter went back up to full, and I shook my head in disappointment…
Definitely not a rollback, my super meter was fully drained. I was also ochioed out of super startup once, and both of us burst out laughing for a while.
Hmmm maybe I should look into it lol. When I look at the pics of the super frame by frame, it doesn’t look like there is any point where he is throwable. Theoretically him being throwable would mean could I buffer the SPD motion, wait for the super flash, and throw Honda every time with good timing.
The setup was that I knocked Guile down in the corner, advanced right next to him with HHS, then timed my super to start right when Guile would get up (I wanted to chip him to death and stuff his reversal inputs with a super flash). Somehow I timed it such that Guile did a reversal (I think ??) normal throw (the german suplex) right as the super flash ended.
If you look at YBH’s frame data, it seems to make sense that Honda’s Super can be thrown during startup. It says Honda is airborne on the 7th frame after the Super flash, and that he has 4 frames of invincibility after the flash (25-21). This covers his first hitting frame, but he’s supposedly grounded and vulnerable for 3 frames before becoming airborne. Maybe Guile threw him at that point with a wakeup reversal throw. Akiba’s data doesn’t say at which point he loses his invincibility. According to Rufus’ images, it looks like he’s invincible until he’s airborne, but maybe those first 3 “airborne frames” are actually grounded? IDK, I’m just speculating, but that could be one reason why Honda was thrown.
Damn, I use that tactic a lot in that match up when scenario permits. Never seen Guile do that before. Hawk and Gief did that to me plenty of times before with their respective SPD move. Outside of those characters, I didn’t think anybody would be ever so bold to “throw” Honda out of an initial super flash moment or if there was a possible small window for others to do so. I thought the initial flash moment is when all the supers are at it’s invincibility moment. This probably works with characters with better grab priorities.
Personally, I’d would really love to trade in Honda’s Super (given the vulnerability in it) for the Invincibility Star that Mario uses to stomp Koopa Turtles for free. And we have a lot of turtles in this game. LOL