Don't Try To Throw A Sumo: Honda Remix Thread #2

Classic Fighting Games SSF2T: HD Remix
1

Original Thread: http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=168779

Changes from Super Turbo (from Sirlin’s website):

Consensus Matchups [Honda on left]:
Ryu: 2.5-7.5
Ken: 2.5-7.5
Chun: 4.5-5.5
Blanka: 6-4
Zangief: 7.5-2.5
Guile: 4-6
Dhalsim: 5.5-4.5
T. Hawk: 7.5-2.5
Cammy: 7-3
Fei Long: 6.5-3.5
Dee Jay: 3.5-6.5
Balrog (Boxer): 5-5
Vega (Claw): 6-4
Sagat: 4.5-5.5
M. Bison (Dictator): 5.5-4.5

Total: 78 (+3, tied for #6/16 overall)

Note that Honda has a whopping SEVEN matchups that are at least 3 points apart, tied with T. Hawk and Guile for the most in the game. In addition, he has the only four 7.5-2.5 matches in the game.

Honda’s Hitboxes: http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/honda/

Honda Move Analysis

Normals

[details=Spoiler]Far Standing Normals:

Jab: Extremely good normal; quick, hard to punish, exceedingly high priority. Mainly used on defense, as the hitbox is entirely active and doesn’t put Honda in much danger. Is amazing against Ryu, as it stuffs his reversal shoryuken if used at max range once you get a knockdown, and against Zangief, as it beats every single jumping attack he has.

Strong: Pretty bad, especially compared to standing jab; it doesn’t stick out as far, and leaves Honda a bit more vulnerable. Anything you could use st. strong for, you could either use st. jab or a special for and do much better with.

Fierce: Useless on offense unless you’re tagging it onto a combo that you aren’t using Hundred Hand Slap for. Less useless on defense, as it comes out fairly quickly and sticks out a fair deal. Use only as a punish against whiffed moves.

Short: Abjectly useless. Only active for a short time, has a very thin active hitbox, and takes 12 frames to recover. You have specials, don’t bother with this move.

Forward: More useless than short; takes just as long to recover and leaves Honda vulnerable to jumps. Once again, you have specials, don’t bother using this.

Roundhouse: Excessively worthless. The passive/hitable part of Honda’s leg is actually wider than the active/hitting part of it, and it has a whopping 17 frames of recovery. Only way you would use this is accidentally.

Close Standing Normals:

Jab: Use this to either tick or buffer into Hundred Hand slap, this is much worse than his normal standing jab.

Strong: Excellent in combos, as you can link into most of his normals or cancel into Hundred Hand Slap. Otherwise, it’s not a very good move.

Fierce: Extremely situational; this move is intended as an anti-air, but in general Honda’s specials are much better for that. Really only works against Vega/Claw’s wall dives and Cammy. Otherwise, don’t touch it.

Short: Almost no hitbox to speak of. Pretty terrible move.

Forward: Just as bad a hitbox as close short, and has an extra two frames of recovery. Horrible move.

Roundhouse: Exactly the same as his standing roundhouse with (gasp) an extra hitting frame! Still absolutely horrible.

Crouching Normals:

Jab: Honda’s best tick throw move, especially with the stored Ochio glitch. Also has a pretty far-reaching hitbox, and stuffs Balrog/Boxer’s rush punches and Blanka balls clean.

Strong: Only useable against Dee Jay and Guile if they’re spamming out low kicks, but not a good normal otherwise. Your crouching jab and specials outclass this at about everything else.

Fierce: Every use this move has is outclassed by crouching jab and specials, with one exception; this move is actually quite good against Balrog/Boxer’s rush punches. Otherwise, not a normal you’re using unless you mess up a tick or an Ochio throw.

Short: Good against Dhalsim’s limbs, and very good in combos, as it cancels into Hundred Hand Slap and Torpedo. High-priority, use for anything crouching jab doesn’t beat.

Forward: Good against Dhalsim’s libs (again), but doesn’t combo at all. Otherwise, if you must stick out a kick, not the worst choice you can make.

Roundhouse: Knocks down on hit, knocks Boxer out of his rush punches, and sets up Medium Punch Hundred Hand Slap on block. Careful not to abuse, as on whiff you’re asking for someone to punish you. Very good crouching normal on offense.

Jumping Normals:

Jab: This is Honda’s only real no-charge move against Blanka’s jumping shorts. The diagonal jump jab has a much better hitbox, so use that exclusively. Also a good anti-air in general, beats anything that is to the side of you or is in j. strong’s blind spot.

Strong: Vega constantly walldiving? Cammy spamming neutral jump strongs? Chun-Li being a massive pain in your ass with jumping forwards? Your jumping strong answers those problems mess-free. Also a good anti-air in general, beats anything going over your head.

Fierce: Ooh boy oh boy oh boy. Neutral jump fierce is very probably Honda’s best normal move period, simply because you can steer Honda left or right while using it (hence the term Floating Fierce). Against characters with a projectile (excluding Sagat), it’s a zero-risk way to maneuver around fireballs. Against characters without one, it helps space forward or backward, and can also knock characters like Cammy out of their jump-ins. Floating fierce into Hundred Hands is also a good way to force trades or just advance Honda in general. This move is godlike.

Even diagonal jump fierce is an excellent move. Situationally crosses up, gets Honda around fireballs at closer ranges while tagging the opposing character in the head, sets up throws, and can set up combos. Learn j. fierce, and learn it well.

Short: Neutral jump short is only good against Dhalsim, Chun Li, and Dictator to set up ticks. Otherwise, it’s godawful, as Honda’s vulnerable hitbox actually extends past his active one. Generally avoid like the black death.

Diagonal jump short is another story. Honda all of a sudden becomes extremely hard to hit (this move contracts his hitbox), he lands quicker, and can land on early/mistimed sweeps. Honda’s best jumping normal for setting up ticks, since he lands relatively quickly. Very good against fireballers to avoid landing on a knockdown into fireball.

Forward: Neutral jump forward is very good in the Honda mirror match, and also sets up a tick loop on Dhalsim. Diagonal jump forward has exactly the same hitbox. Pretty decent situationally.

Roundhouse: Crosses up everybody (except Boxer), does good damage, and sets up Honda’s combos and tick setups very well. This is also a very good move for hitting fireballers if you anticipate a fireball. Not much to say, this is very good as an offensive jump-in.

Command normals:

Far sweep (? + Roundhouse): Honda’s best poke. Knocks down on hit, safe on block, and can stuff the startup of most fireballs. This also hits some characters out of very annoying moves (namely, Fei Long’s standing fierces and Blanka’s electricity). Solid normal.

Body splash (during diagonal jump, down + Forward): Crosses up everyone, and has transcendant priority (Honda’s entire body except for the very top of his head is an active hitbox). Just as good as jumping roundhouse at setting up combos and ticks. Another solid normal.
[/details]

Specials and Super

[details=Spoiler](charge means to hold the given direction for slightly longer than a second. All charge moves can be charged by holding down and back simultaneously.):

Hundred Hand Slap (press the same punch button three times rapidly): E. Honda has a flurry of hands directly in front of him and a grumpy look on his face. Jab Hundred Hand Slap keeps Honda stationary, hits every four frames, and has the least startup time. Strong Hundred Hand Slap moves Honda forward, hits every two frames, and has slightly longer startup time. Fierce Hundred Hand Slap moves Honda further forward, hits every frame, and has the longest startup.

Hundred Hand Slap is an extremely good move. On block, it deals inordinate amounts of chip damage and the opponent is stuck in blockstun until they’re completely pushed back, more or less creating a do-it-yourself blockstring. If blocked high, Hundred Hands will still hit low periodically. On a single deep hit, Strong and Fierce Hundred Hands can be immediately followed up by an Ochio Throw. Doing Strong or Fierce Hundred Hands after another Strong or Fierce Hundred Hands is very handy for closing gaps and Excluding very high-priority moves such as T. Hawk’s crouching jabs, Hundred Hands has pretty good priority and can be spaced to stuff a lot of moves. And to top it off, this can be used to trade with fireballs at mid-to-close range. Very very good special. Get used to the carpal tunnel, you’ll be using this a lot. See here for how to combo into Hundred Hand Slap!

Torpedo/Sumo Headbutt (charge back, then towards + punch): E. Honda laughs in the face of the laws of physics and propels himself at the enemy headfirst as though by some sumo magic. Jab Torpedo and Strong Torpedo have the most invulnerability (11 frames), while Fierce Torpedo has 6 frames of full invuln. Jab Torpedo launches Honda one-half of a screen, Strong Torpedo carries him three-quarters of a screen, and Fierce Torpedo takes him full-screen. All Torpedos knock down on hit and are safe on block.

Each Torpedo is good in its own special way. Jab Torpedo is by far Honda’s staple defensive special; it beats jump-ins (as Honda has 5 frames where his head is a fully invulnerable hitbox) and beats pretty much all close-in normals. However, Jab Torpedo is also very good on offense, as when Honda is fully extended, it destroys fireballs. At close-range or full-screen, this is a risk-free way to advance against someone launching a stream of fireballs.

Strong Torpedo is mostly good for shenanigans, and also does pretty well against Dhalsim. Otherwise, it’s slightly weaker than both of the other Torpedos.

Fierce Torpedo is the best overall offensive Torpedo. Safe on block, carries Honda full-screen, and is very very hard to react to if you’re any closer than the very edge of full-screen. Against Sagat, this will hit his arms during one of his low tiger shots. Once again, Torpedo is a good special move in general, be prepared to use it quite a bit.

Buttslam/Ass Drop/Sumo Drop/Flying Fat Man (charge down, then up+kick): E. Honda further ignores the laws of physics, and proceeds to use his jet-powered rear end to launch himself upwards and then come crashing down on an opponent. Short and Forward Buttslams hit on the way up as well as on the way down, while Roundhouse Buttslams only hit on the way down. Short Buttslam has the most invulnerability. All are invulnerable on startup, knock down on hit, must be blocked high, and are safe on block.

The Buttslam is a very good special. Not only is it an overhead, and not only is it a knockdown on hit, it can also keep charge for both Ochio Throw and Torpedo if you input up-back for your Buttslam. Buttslams can also be chained off of (and are great setups for) Hundred Hand Slap. Every Buttslam is very good at escaping cross-up attempts, escaping fireballs at certain ranges, and occasionally they trade with uppercuts. A whiffed Buttslam landing close range also opens up a free Ochio Throw unless your opponent has superhuman reactions. Buttslam is a pretty good move, so get used to using this one too.

Short Buttslam specifically is best used as a full-screen fireball escape (unless against Shotos), or as a mixup in the corner with a heavier Buttslam. Only the slightest bit less recovery than the other two (4 frames), but this makes Buttslam-into-Hundred Hands come out slightly faster. It also breaks up blockstrings and can function pretty well as an anti-air.

Forward Buttslam is also a good fireball escape, and is another good mixup with heavier Buttslams. Like Short Buttlsam, Forward Buttslam breaks up blockstrings and anti-airs pretty well, as it hits on the way up, and occasionally functions as a crossup.

Roundhouse Buttslam will just about always hit a fireballer if you use it at midscreen to escape a projectile. Roundhouse Buttslam also leads naturally into Strong Hundred Hand Slap (see the Dirty Tricks Section), and crosses up at midscreen and closer. Roundhouse Buttslam escapes blockstrings, but is sadly not as handy of an anti-air. It’s still an excellent move.

Ochio Throw/Oicho Throw (???, punch): E. Honda slams his opponent into the pavement, then adds insult to injury by landing on them, ass-first. Only difference between Ochios of varying strength is damage, with Fierce Ochio doing the most damage. Like all other throws, Ochio is fully invulnerable and can thus be used as a reversal attack.

This is the move that makes E. Honda a defensive powerhouse on par with Alcatraz. The Ochio Throw is the only command throw in the game without a whiff animation, making all negative-edge attempts (releasing a punch button instead of pressing it) 100% safe. On top of that, the Ochio Throw can also be stored, by inputting the motion and then holding the stick/pad in any backwards position. If you store your Ochio in the down-back position, you’re essentially charging both of Honda’s special moves, his Ochio Throw, and his super if you have it. How’s that for an arsenal?

The stored Ochio glitch is a technique that is not only easy to master, it is completely essential to playing E. Honda. Below are just a few reasons why:

-Anyone walking into your throw range gets thrown immediately if you’re not in stun, effectively stopping every walk-up throw in the game except for Zangief and T. Hawk’s.
-Anyone who’s throwable at all in your throw range gets thrown immediately. Dee Jay and Dhalsim during their slides, Dictator during his slide, Ken when landing from his Super, etc. etc. etc.
-You hold both charges while ochio-ing people, enabling Buttslams, Torpedos, or more Ochios.
-All of your negative-edge tick attempts are 100% safe; if they don’t reversal you get the Ochio, and if they do, you block. [media=youtube]tjj6OKjQS2U#t=3m37s[/media]
-You throw people completely on accident, and you’re OK with that, because it hurts them more than it hurts you.
-Hundred Hand Slap into Ochio becomes grotesquely easy (Ochio motion, hit punch three times, hit punch again) and does tons of damage.

And on top of all of that, you can still walk up and Ochio someone if you really feel like it. Learn the Ochio, live the Ochio, love the Ochio.

SUPER: Oni Muso (With a full super meter, charge back, then forward, back, forward + punch): E. Honda propels himself at the opponent, and while they cower in fear at the physics-defying monster that is Honda, he launches himself again! Always knocks down on hit, and sends enemy in juggle state, enabling a maximum of three hits for ~50% damage. Will destroy fireballs when fully extended, and has 24 frames of full invulnerability.

Let’s make this clear: Honda’s super is one of the most unreliable moves in the game, period. Low-priority when fully extended, punishable on block (sometimes after blocking the first hit!), punishable before the first hit, and gives the opponent a nice warning of the super flash right before it runs at them. Using Super offensively will usually get you killed, so don’t do it. It’s like a giant flashing I Lose button.

That being said, Honda does have an excellent DEFENSIVE super. Excluding a select few jumping attacks (such as Blanka’s jumping short), Honda will straight-up beat every jump-in ever with his super. On the 24th frame (first active hitting frame), Honda’s head is a large and fully invulnerable hitbox, which accounts for a third hit for a total of 50% damage if all three hits connect. This ONLY works from point-blank if the opponent is not blocking. Again, this is best used on defense against jump-ins.

Finally, from 3/4-screen to fullscreen, Honda’s super is excellent at destroying fireballs on reaction, and will hit for about 30% damage on anyone but Guile (he recovers too quickly). However, his super will only destroy fireballs when fully extended, meaning a perfectly timed meaty fireball will still hit Honda out of his super for another knockdown. Be very wary when using Honda’s super.
[/details]

Honda Crossups and Combos(courtesy FreshOJ’s Combo FAQ)

[details=Spoiler]Cross-ups: Jumping d+short(), jumping forward(), Belly Flop (jumping
d+forward)(), jumping fierce, jumping roundhouse()

Links:

close/stand jab: jab, close short, stand strong.

crouch short: jab, close short, crouch fierce (1st hit).

close/stand strong: jab, close short, strong, close forward, stand
fierce (misses Chun Li), crouch fierce (1st hit), crouch roundhouse,
Jab 100 Hand Slap (tap punch rapidly), (on Guile, Dhalsim, Fei Long,
Blanka, T.Hawk, and Zangief) close roundhouse, (on Fei Long, T. Hawk,
and Zangief) close fierce.

close forward: jab, crouch short (misses Ryu, Ken, Akuma, and Chun Li),
strong, crouch forward, crouch fierce (1st hit).

Knee Butt (f+close forward): crouch jab.

Best moves to link from: close short, close/stand strong, close
forward.

Best moves to link to: close short, stand fierce, Jab 100 Hand Slap.

Combos:

Rapid-fire chain attacks: Crouch short.
Cancellable attacks: Close jab, crouch short.

Best point-blank range combos (tick throw setups):
Sumo Headbutt (charge b,f+punch): Crouch short, crouch short XX Fierce
Sumo Headbutt
Hundred Hand Slap (tap punch rapidly): Close strong, crouch short XX
Fierce Hundred Hand Slap
Sumo Splash (charge d,u+kick): None
Ochio Throw (f,df,d,db+punch): Crouch jab XX Fierce Ochio Throw (TT)
Oni Muso SC (charge b,f,b,f+punch): Close strong, crouch short (CP) XX
Oni Muso SC

Basic Combos:

  1. Close strong, Hold or Throw (TT)
  2. Close strong, close jab
  3. Close strong, crouch roundhouse
  4. Crouch short XX Fierce Sumo Headbutt (BnB)
  5. Close strong, stand fierce

Intermediate Combos:
6. Close strong, Jab Hundred Hand Slap
7. Jump fierce, crouch short XX Fierce Sumo Headbutt (BnB)
8. Jump roundhouse, close strong, Jab Hundred Hand Slap
9. Close jab, close strong, close/stand fierce (Close strong whiffs
against Chun Li in this combo.)
10. Jump fierce, crouch jab XX Fierce Ochio Throw (BnB, TT, ToD)
11. Crouch short, crouch short XX Fierce Sumo Headbutt
12. Close strong, crouch short XX Jab Hundred Hand Slap
13. Jump fierce, crouch short XX Fierce Hundred Hand Slap, Fierce
Ochio Throw (BnB, TT)
14. Jump roundhouse, close jab (x2) XX Fierce Hundred Hand Slap,
Fierce Ochio Throw (BnB, TT)

Advanced Combos:
15. Cross-up Belly Flop, close jab, close strong, close fierce (ToD)
16. Cross-up short, crouch short, crouch short XX Fierce Sumo
Headbutt
17. Cross-up roundhouse, close strong, crouch short XX Fierce
Hundred Hand Slap, Fierce Ochio Throw (BnB, TT)
18. Cross-up roundhouse, crouch short (x2), crouch short XX Fierce
Hundred Hand Slap, Fierce Ochio Throw (BnB, TT, 100% damage if
the throw connects)
19. Cross-up roundhouse, crouch short, crouch short (CP) XX Oni Muso
SC[/details]

2

vs. Ryu:

Thelo on Ryu

[details=Spoiler]
First of all, the most important technique to learn in this matchup is the floating fierce over fireballs (vertical jumping HP, steer forward while in the air). This is basically the only move beating fireballs that you have that Ryu cannot counter on reaction. When you land, you have basically two options: either HHS or jump.

Floating fierce land -> HHS is your main threat against Ryu, it’s very powerful if it lands and still very good if Ryu blocks. It wins against almost everything but loses if Ryu throws another fireball. Note that Ryu can only throw a second fireball if his first fireball is already off the screen, so that means if you jumped over a slow fireball from midscreen, you have an almost free HHS opportunity!

Floating fierce land -> jump is the option that beats fireball -> fireball. Which jump to do depends on where you are. From fullscreen, you can probably only do another floating fierce, because any forward jump can be swept. From longrange, you can do forwardjump :lk:, this will often win against Ryu’s sweep, and from there you can do HHS for big damage. And from midrange, you can choose either forwardjump fierce -> HHS or forwardjump :lk: -> ochio.

The reason this is important is because Ryu can’t know in advance whether he should throw a second fireball or not after your floating fierce, since your HHS comes out too fast, so he has to guess - and forcing Ryu to guess right in this matchup is very good because normally he doesn’t even have to guess, he can just wait and see what you do, then react to it. It’s a way of bypassing Ryu’s reaction-based defense.

  • Sometimes, you can try to reaction buttslam through his fireballs, but don’t rely on this: Ryu’s fireballs are very hard to react to, and Ryu can actually shoryuken your buttslam on reaction if he’s looking for it. It’s a trick you can use once or twice in a match, especially at match start, but no more.

  • Once you’ve knocked Ryu down in the corner, you have a choice: should you try to tick throw (loses to shoryuken, wins against everything else) or get close and block (wins against shoryuken, does nothing against everything else)? One way of bypassing this dilemma is to tick Ryu with a far standing jab, which actually beats Ryu’s shoryuken, and if Ryu did not shoryuken then you can follow-up with HHS for block damage. It’s an incredibly useful trick! Note that it doesn’t really work vs Ken, though (his :mp: and :hp: shoryukens will hit you).

  • Once you’ve knocked Ryu down and you can crossup, do it! Go ahead with your usual crossup sequence of jump :hk:, low :lp:, ochio - it’s very very hard to shoryuken against crossup jump HK, impossible to shoryuken the low jab if you do it fast enough to combo, and you can negative edge ochio by releasing the :lp: button, so you can option-select block Ryu’s shoryuken if he’s so good that he waited up to there before trying it. So it’s very safe and will very probably end in an ochio for good damage!

  • It can be pretty hard to guess correctly when Ryu will throw a fireball, so what I like to do from fullscreen is to make Ryu become more predictable by just walking forward from fullscreen and blocking his fireball a few times. If Ryu doesn’t throw fireball after fireball, he can get Honda in his face fast, so this can make Ryu get predictable with a constant rhythm of fast fireballs. Once Ryu is predictable enough, you can do your prediction moves (jab headbutt, floating fierce, forwardjump) much more easily. This applies to anyone with a fireball.

  • Never jab headbutt from longrange (75% screen), and never do it on reaction. Either do it when it can actually hit Ryu (good!) or from fullscreen on prediction (sometimes).

  • Once you have your super, you can stay at fullscreen and punish Ryu’s fireball on reaction if you’re quick enough. My trick is to just block a few fireballs to get Ryu’s rhythm, then when I think he’ll throw another one, I do the super’s motion without the final Punch input. While I do that motion, I look at Ryu to see if he did throw a fireball, and if he did, bam! I hit punch and my super punishes Ryu for big damage. This works even better against Ken since’s he’s slower. Of course, fake fireball can throw a wrench into that plan, but it’s still fearsome enough to give it a try.[/details]

EA Megaman on Ryu

Spoiler

I would add to the Ryu section that a far standing jab is a great meaty after a knockdown. It will safely avoid his SRK and will beat out (correctly timed that is) a reversal Tatsu. If it hits block low (he can get out a MP/MK if you try to walk in throw,) if it is blocked either bait an SRK or take a half step in for a RH grab into safe jump shenanigans. It was a huge boost to my Ryu game plan and came by way of UltraDavid. Who is a genius.

Safe jump after throw: Neutral jump after Fierce grab, Diagonal Jump after RH grab.

[media=youtube]SrBfZKlHwnU[/media] ? EA Megaman (Honda) vs. John Choi (Ryu)

vs. Ken: See the Ryu match mostly, but remember that fierce DP hits on the first frame, making jumping at Ken near-suicidal, and beware of slow fireballs, since Ken can walk behind them to sweep!

Safe jump after throw: None (Fierce DP hits on the first frame, making safe jumping impossible)

[media=youtube]EfHYsPawAes[/media] ? Thelo (Honda) vs. Damdai (Ken)

vs. Chun Li:

http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=168779&p=7859215&viewfull=1#post7859215

Safe jump after throw: Diagonal jump after Fierce grab.

[media=youtube]hlj4a43DCvo[/media] ? Buttslam is a pretty good move.

vs. Honda:

Thelo on Honda

[details=Spoiler]
Honda mirror is… special. And by special I mean kind of retarded. The basic strategy is to get life lead somehow, then just hurl yourself at the other guy over and over and trade a million times. It’s the matchup with the highest rate of Double KO ever, because everything you do can trade. There are some tricks you can use, though.

As a round opening, jab HHS (not extended! do not continue mashing them!) -> jab headbutt is pretty damn good. In particular, the jab headbutt will be executed at just the right time to stuff any opening buttslams, and the HHS part will usually win against :mp: or :hp: HHS and most headbutts.

Whenever the other guy does a buttslam that doesn’t crossup, you can headbutt it (jab headbutt if it would hit you, fierce if it whiffs). Whenever you can do a crossup buttslam, do it (and follow with chained :mp: HHS). If the other guy tries to cross you up, escape with a buttslam (not headbutts!) or reversal super.

Do NOT use your super from fullscreen! In fact, only use your super on wakeup in that matchup. If the other guy tries to super you, you can jab headbutt either the first or second hits easily.

If the other guy walks forward at ANY time, :hp: headbutt.

When you get a knockdown, you have a few options. You can do your usual Honda tricks of advancing HHS -> crossup buttslam, or the usual crossup :hk: -> low :lp: -> ochio, or even just chained :mp: HHS, but the other Honda can easily do reversal headbutts or buttslams to beat it.

So a dirty trick you can often do is to walk up to about sweep range, just stand there apparently vulnerable as if you would try to HHS him, and right before he gets up, do vertical jump :lk:. That will beat all buttslams, and all his headbutts, including his super, will fly right under you! Then when you land, you can punish him with HHS. That will make him think twice before doing wakeup reversals! Then you can go back to doing pressure HHS or whatever.

The usual jumping :lk: -> ochio sucks here, never try it. If the other guy tries it, you can counter-ochio him when he lands every time (defender’s advantage).

Normally, headbutt vs HHS is a gamble - sometimes headbutt wins, sometimes HHS wins, sometimes it trades. It depends on which exact frame the HHS is at, which is basically random. But there is one situation in which HHS will always win. If your fierce headbutt is blocked, often the enemy Honda will immediately try to fierce headbutt you back. But if you immediately do :lp: HHS after getting your fierce headbutt blocked, the HHS will always win against an immediate revenge fierce headbutt. So get in the habit of doing :lp: HHS right after fierce headbutts.

The ultimate manly trick in Honda mirrors is to reaction-jab headbutt their fierce headbutts. It’s really hard to do, but if you can pull it off, you can score major psychological damage because you will appear invincible. It only really works from fullscreen since midrange fierce headbutts are just too fast to react to.[/details]

Safe jump after throw: Neutral jump after Fierce grab, Diagonal Jump after RH grab.

vs. Blanka:

http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?p=7238326#post7238326

Safe jump after throw: None (vertical ball hits on the first frame, making safe jump impossible)

vs. Guile:

http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=168779&p=5892094&viewfull=1#post5892094

EA Megaman on Guile

Spoiler

Guile is a fun match for me. Most of the tatics are covered in Chaghatai’s post, a few notable things - cr.MP stuffs his forward. So when you get him trapped in the corner and you know he’s going to throw out one of those suff it. Don’t butt slam at him int he corner. He can nail it with cr.FP. Play footsies and go for the trip when he booms. Then fuck his shit up. Also a great trick on this fool is once you do get the FP grab, you can cross under him and do a cr.FK. This will hit him with the back of your FK. This will either trip him and give you a free cross-up to shove him back in the corner, or he will block it and provide you with a perfect throw setup with a long (remember, you hit him with the FK) block-stun making it difficult for him to reversal.

Safe jump after throw: Either jump after FP grab, Diagonal jump after RH grab (maybe)

vs. Zangief:

Thelo on Zangief

[details=Spoiler]Honda vs Zangief is pretty braindead. You should always start the round with LP HHS. If he sits and does crouching jabs all day to stop torpedo or HHS, far standing roundhouse beats cr. jab clean and scores a knockdown (!), which then sets you up for floating fierce (away from Gief!), into MP HHS. Once you’re at a safe range, LP HHS builds meter, MP HHS can be used as a semi-approach anywhere from fullscreen to midscreen, standing jab can be thrown out to discourage approaches, and jab torpedo (or super) stops jump-ins. At fullscreen, HP HHS is a decent advance, but you should never, ever use it at any other range. Collectively, this ?strategy? should win you the match outright 70% of the time.

The only caveat is never to be baited into a fullscreen torpedo [or an offensive torpedo of any kind], as Zangief can easily punish with lariat for a knockdown. In general, if he holds back, block. If he jumps in, you have a number of reversal options. If you have meter, great! Super is your overall best reversal, as it does boatloads of damage. However, if Gief blocked, he gets a free lariat between hits. If you don’t have meter, your next best option is to piano your headbutts, which can get you out of trouble but can also trade. Buttslams are worse than the other two options overall; MK and LK buttslams can hit on the way up, but Zangief can lariat Honda out if he blocks the first hit, and HK buttslams better damn well get you very far away, or Zangief has a very long time to lariat or sweep you out on the way down.

If your reversals didn’t go very well, Zangief is going to do some number of low jabs followed by a spinning piledriver. Your best reversal in this case is a headbutt (or a super), but you have to guess correctly on the number of crouching jabs before he SPD’s; if you guess incorrectly, you get to eat another knockdown and repeat the process all over again.[/details]

EA Megaman on Zangief

Spoiler

With Zangief you can anti-air every single jump-in that he has with a far standing LP. In that match it’s somewhat beneficial to give up your charge and make him want to jump at you. By managing the spacing well, you can win an entire match by making him jump into your jab.

Safe jump after throw: Either jump after either grab (his only reversals are grabs, which can’t hit you if you’re in midair!)

vs. Dhalsim:

Thelo on Sim

[details=Spoiler]
This match is odd simply because it’s a fireball character that Honda has an advantage against! Your best start in this round is MP Torpedo. If he jumps back, you’re right next to him (even if he hits you with j. MK). If he Yoga Fire/Flames, or sticks out a limb, you hit him in the startup. If he blocks, you get free chip damage. It’s a good situation either way.

When Sim is shooting jab fireballs, your WORST option by far is reaction jab headbutt. Sim can shoot another fireball OR stick out st. fierce to hit Honda out of the recovery. The best options are carefully spaced floating fierce, anticipation jab headbutt (risky), or buttslam once you’re in range to hit him.

Once you get Sim cornered, buttslam buttslam buttslam! On knockdown, Sim can’t actually answer buttslam effectively unless he blocks. Also, neutral jump MK ? tick Ochio is very safe against Dhalsim, since you’re constantly out of his threat range for another throw. Only exception to the second is if Sim has meter; if he guesses right, you’re eating a good portion of damage off of his super.[/details]

EA Megaman on Sim

[details=Spoiler]
With Dhalsim… I have some special knowledge of that match, having ran that back with SweetJohnnyV about a million times over. A well timed cr.LK will stuff his far standing FP. Which you can use to cancel into hands and be up in his shit. Neutral jumping MK will also beat that. A far standing jab will beat his far MK and far FK. And MP hands also does a good job of stuffing his far kicks. Don’t rely on jab headbutt in the match. It’ll make you eat a FP. You can run a throw loop on his ass because his throw range sucks. FK grab -> Diagonal Jump FK -> FK grab till he’s dead. Incidentially this also works on Balrog, Dee Jay, and Guile. He has three methods of escape. He can take the hit on the FK and counter throw, at which point you will combo him for doing that. If he teleports most likely he’s still right next to you because that move sucks. Grab him and run it again. His last method of escape is super, but if he doesn’t have it yet he’s screwed. You can also pretty much run a train on him in the corner using cr.LK canceled into MK/FK sumo smash. The only other time the throw loops don’t work is in the corner. But if you’re at mid screen go for it. Also with Dhalsim neutral jump over those fireballs with a MK. He can’t hit you with his far MK/FK crap as easily.[/details]

Safe jump after throw: Either jump after either grab. (Dhalsim has no non-super reversals).

3

vs. Dee Jay:

Thelo on Dee Jay

[details=Spoiler]

A relatively new trick I have vs Deejay is a mixup after forward jumping over a maxout, it depends on which type of punish they like most. If Deejay likes to punish with upkicks (because you jumped over a nonexistant maxout), if you EMPTY JUMP (i.e. do NOT touch any buttons), the upkicks will actually whiff over your head almost every time because Honda’s jumping hitboxes are just that weird. Of course, if that’s the only thing do do, he’ll just sweep you, but your jumping LK beats his sweep![/details]

http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=168779&p=6219197&viewfull=1#post6219197

Safe jump after throw: Either jump after FP grab, no safe jumps if he has super

vs. Cammy:

Thelo on Cammy

[details=Spoiler]
Cammy can be surprisingly hard. I have little real advice in this matchup. Remember that you can punish 100% of blocked thrust kicks with your fierce headbutts, and that you should be able to react to hooligan throws with headbutts most of the time. Also remember that Cammy likes to do lots of drills, which your jumping :d::mp: splash will beat (on prediction).

When Cammy is being offensive, buttslam. No, seriously, it pierces her block strings, it smacks her hooligan shenanigans, and it crushes her cannon drills. And when Cammy is being defensive, well… just sit on the other side of the screen and wait. You can throw random headbutts if you feel like it.

One thing to watch out for, though, is her jumping strong, as it beats your headbutts most of the time (obviously it doesn’t beat the invincible startup frames of the jab headbutt). If she starts getting smart with that move, jumping fierce is a good way to slap her out of the sky. [/details]

Thelo on Dizzy-Combo Cammy

[details=Spoiler]So last Tuesday I played some HD Remix with the local Montreal crew, and the biggest surprise of the evening was a Cammy player who teared it up. I think he’s the second Cammy I’ve actually been afraid of (first being Sirlin). Now Sirlin’s #1 tool in that Cammy v Honda matchup is vertical jumping MP, everything is based on it, but this guy’s main tool was actually the crossup dizzy combo.

He did crossup jumping short, something, something, drill (KD, dizzy), then repeat. If I tried to jab headbutt or buttslam it, I just sailed under Cammy and he could throw the recovery, then repeat. If I supered, it traded with the jump short (then someone gets thrown) or it outright lost then I ate dizzy combo. It really felt like fighting Bison, because that dizzy combo was basically an instant win and he landed it 100%.

He also liked to mix it up with Hooligan after a blockstring or two if I blocked it, such that HHS or standing jab didn’t beat it (only headbutt did).

So I had to wise up a bit and just block that crossup, and not even try to slap it out of the air. Then I could ochio (if he misspaced it and whiffed the crossup) or block until the drill (then ochio), or block until the hooligan (then headbutt), or block until he just stops, for a reset at midscreen. I also had to tone down the random headbutts because he could just jump over them and punish with the dizzy combo for an instant win. Again it felt a lot like fighting a Bison with a DP, his whole game was based on that combo and some quick throws.

Pretty often he just blatantly walked up to me and crossed me up while I was downbacking. That kind of worked because of the drill threat (beats HHS startup, trades with headbutt when extended, safely chips your block) + vertical jump threat (beats headbutts, fierce HHS).

So how did I beat this? Surprisingly enough, what worked the best at close range wasn’t the HHS or headbutt, it was the jump. Jump anything beats the drill, backjump beats everything but gives up position, forwardjump early splash (:d:+:mk:) beats everything that’s not a DP including that annoying jump short. I ended up doing jumping splashes a lot, more of them at midrange and less at longrange. I also had to train myself to wait in block, then quickly headbutt hooligan “tick throws” because that’s the only thing that really works, mashing these punches for the usual ochio / HHS just gets you thrown.

Also, just blocking is pretty good, if you can afford to take a bit of chip. Just blocking mostly beats the whole crossup situation, and lets you punish DPs and misspaced drills. Better to take a bit of drill chip than to try to counter something, whiff, and instalose to that dizzy combo.[/details]

Safe jump after throw: Either jump after Fierce Grab.

vs. Fei Long:

Thelo and Mad King on Fei Long

[details=Spoiler]
Your best bet to start the round is a neutral jumping fierce punch. It either trades with or stuffs chicken wings, lands without lag for an ochio throw if he opened with rekka punches, and can’t be flame kicked thanks to Fei having almost no horizontal movement on his flame kicks.

The single most annoying attack Fei Long has in this match is standing fierce. It beats headbutts, beats HHS, and close standing fierce also beats buttslams. Now, if your opponent doesn’t know about this, abuse fierce headbutts and hundred hands until Fei Long dies. If he does, you have two options. The first is far standing sweep. If you catch him in a standing fierce, Fei gets knocked down, which leads to all sorts of buttslamming, hundred-handing, ochio-ing Honda shenanigans. This is far from foolproof, though; whiffing allows Fei to Rekka your recovery for a free three hits and knockdown, and therefore this should only be used to keep him honest. At fullscreen, you have to time your FP headbutts so he gets hit between fierces, which is very difficult as the standing fierce is very very fast. Also, a chicken wing will eat torpedo on reaction. However, a successful headbutt also scores a knockdown, so it’s worth trying.

Of course, once you get lifelead, you have two choices. Choice one, which is the safest by far, is to sit on a down-back charge and wait for Fei to come to you, reacting to his offense as necessary. Choice two is to continue applying pressure with floating fierce, HHS, and buttslams, which works very well since Fei Long’s reversals can be unreliable. If you get a knockdown close to Fei Long, you get choice three, which is to loop crossup HK buttslams (to knock him down) and MP HHS (to get closer after the knockdown) at Fei Long until he reverses (extremely hard given that you’re crossing him up constantly) or dies. It’s hilariously damaging and a lot of wins can be had just by doing this (also see vs. Chun Li, Dictator, Dhalsim, Claw… this trick is good!). Just be careful not to get knocked down, since this lets Fei pressure Honda almost at his whim; Fei pressure is very very painful. This is far from a free win for Honda, but overall it’s still your match to win or lose.[/details]

EA Megaman on Fei Long

Spoiler

In the Fei Long match, it’s pretty much covered, except that far standing LP will stuff his Rekkas. And don’t fall for what Thelo and I did constantly in those videos. The two Rekka pause into flame kick. Just sit on your stored Ochio and if he walks in sit on his face.

Safe jump after throw: Diagonal jump after RH grab, either jump after Fierce grab

[media=youtube]poZ3IRrnRCg[/media] ? Thelo (Honda) vs. Sirlin (Fei Long)

vs. T. Hawk:

Thelo on T. Hawk

[details=Spoiler]
Quite probably the most boring matchup you can subject someone to. Unlike Zangief, T. Hawk doesn’t have the crouching jab * n ? SPD tick, nor does he have an instantaneous sweep that eats low attacks. However, reaction Condor Dives are very difficult to stop, and T. Hawk’s crouching jab past midscreen is the boredom button, stuffing everything except far sweep (which can be Condor Dived if you’re not careful!). T. Hawk has the only crouching jab guaranteed to 100% stuff Hundred Hands.

Other than those changes, playing the match is just as boring as playing against Zangief. Jab torpedo beats blocked DP, jump-ins and dives, carefully times far sweep beats crouching jab (again, just doing this will win you 70% of rounds by itself if you don’t mind being boring). And just like against Zangief, never, never, EVER randomly throw out a headbutt, T. Hawk WILL either DP, DP, DP, crouching jab, or DP it. And being knocked down against Hawk is far more dangerous than against Zangief, since Storm Hammer does much more damage than Spinning Piledriver.

And as if the match wasn’t already grotesquely in Honda’s favor, you have a free option select on knockdown! Walk up just outside of your sweep range and cr. Roundhouse sweep. If T. Hawk does nothing, it’s completely safe; you’re out of Storm Hammer range. If he DP’s it, he’ll sail right over you. And if he does anything else, it’s another knockdown and you get to repeat this. Ugly.[/details]

Safe jump after throw: Either jump after Fierce grab.

[media=youtube]TLpObquXvyQ[/media] ? Thelo (Honda) vs. JigglyNorris (T. Hawk)
[media=youtube]s8ax-OopF8Y[/media] ? Thelo (Honda) vs. SlayerKFK (T. Hawk)

vs. Vega (Claw):

Thelo on Claw

[details=Spoiler]
Vega is easy as long as you can be on the defensive, just :lp: headbutt everything airborne and :mk: buttslam everything grounded. :lp: headbutt usually beats his walldive, too. If he starts doing crossup walldives (i.e. springing from your own wall), you can always escape with a :hk: buttslam, but it’s better to predict that with a jump attack of your own while he’s trying to get to your wall.

If you ever find yourself airborne and Vega is walldiving at you, jumping :mp: is your best anti-air normal, since it has a hitbox that’s above you. It’ll beat the walldives unless Vega knows you’ll do that and he extends his claw super early.

Sometimes he will knock you down and try to pressure you with clawrolls. If you’re good at reversals, that’s free damage for you, especially if you’ve got super.

Another good trick is cornering yourself when you have life lead, then you can do a last moment short buttslam to cleanly beat all walldives, because he can’t really cross you up since you’re in the corner (but he can make you lose headbutt charge by touching your wall).

So that’s for defense. Offense is harder in this match, especially when you’re at fullscreen. Vega will probably do backjump :hp: a lot which is really hard for you to deal with. I recommend doing chained :hp: HHS to advance quickly while charged and maybe chip him a bit, then when he’s backed in a corner, if he still does backjump :hp: * 1000, you can stay at midrange and time a :hp: headbutt to catch him in his prejump frames. Be very careful about :hp: headbutt though, as it’s really easy for Vega to punish that move, so use it very sparsely.

If you ever get a knockdown, cross him up!! Vega is mostly defenseless against crossups. Either :uf::hk: -> :d::lp: -> ochio or crossup :hk: buttslam -> :mp: HHS will work very well.[/details]

Safe jump on throw: Either jump after RH or Fierce grab.

vs. Balrog (Boxer):

Thelo and Mad King on Boxer

[details=Spoiler]Honda has one of the very few even matches with Boxer in HD Remix. Most of the match takes place at midscreen or further out, with each side throwing out some poke of some sort to keep the other side from doing anything; cr. Jab, cr. fierce, cr. forward (very well-timed), and st. jab beat out Boxer’s rush punches, and Boxer’s jabs beat out Honda’s Torpedos. Whichever side gets lifelead generally wins, so make sure that’s you!

Your worst attack in this match is your super. NEVER use your super in this match unless it’s answering Boxer jumping into you. If Boxer blocks your super, he gets a HP rush punch OR HIS SUPER for free. NEVER USE YOUR SUPER! Your best option if you see Boxer walk forward is your fierce torpedo, since it hits quickly enough for Boxer to not be able to answer it. Crouching fierce, while vulnerable to jump-ins, stays out long enough to discourage rush punches, since it deals pretty hefty damage. Once you get close to Boxer, buttslam him to oblivion! His buffalo headbutt is unsafe against the HK Buttslam ? MP hands dance. You can also grab him, since either of your holds gives you a ton of options afterward, or you can simply j. lk -> ochio!

If Boxer gets in on you, you are unfortunately rather screwed. His super does a huge chunk of mostly safe damage, and he can constantly pepper you with rush punches, pokes, and headbutts. The best advice is to sweep, since that can beat rushes and headbutts, but it’s better not to get caught in the situation in the first place.[/details]

Safe jump on throw: Either jump after RH or Fierce grab, no safejump if he has super.

vs. Sagat:

Thelo on Sagat

[details=Spoiler]Sagat is counterintuitive, because despite having a similar moveset to Ryu and Ken, he’s nothing at all like fighting another shoto. Floating fierce is actually a horrible move in this match thanks to the wonky hitboxes of the high tiger shots, and it’s harder for Sagat to punish jumps from full screen thanks to the bad angle of his tiger uppercut.

Sagat’s best non-fireball attack is his jumping roundhouse. Unless he’s right on top of you, it beats out torpedos and buttslams (ouch!). If he IS jumping right on top of you, jab headbutt will knock him out of the air. Otherwise, you have to torpedo him when he lands (risky if he does a DP directly afterward), or jumping jab him almost on anticipation (which doesn’t always win).

Against tiger shots, your best option is to sit and block for a little bit; as long as the chip isn’t killing you, you get a feel for his pattern (and let him set into one!). Far jump-ins beat all tiger shots, jab torpedo from fullscreen is safe against both, and the occasional fierce headbutt beats low tigers (use sparingly, tiger uppercut and high tigers beat fierce headbutt).

Once you knock down Sagat, spend the rest of the round in his face baiting out reversals. Sagat’s reversals are notoriously unsafe on block, and your throw range is as good as ever. Just be careful not to take a hit, because Sagat can easily combo off of j. roundhouse into a very painful dizzy combo.

Speaking of Sagat, here’s a really fun trick I discovered recently: at precisely round start distance, your jab handslaps cleanly beat his Tiger Uppercut! Watch as your opponent tries to reversal uppercut you, only to get stuffed by the almighty power of the Hands. Pretty damn useful at round start, and against those players who rely heavily on the prediction uppercut in footsies or when getting up. It’s the equivalent of the stand jab against Ryu shoryukens, but specific to Sagat.

More anti-Sagat tricks!

Jab headbutt does erase low tiger shots, so you can use it instead of fierce headbutt to beat a low tiger, to avoid landing on a slow low tiger after hitting Sagat’s hands.

Honda super’s startup normally gets hit by projectiles, but it will not get hit by a low tiger! This means that you actually can use super in reaction to a low tiger very well, it’s a lot easier than against shoto fireballs.[/details]

Safe jump on throw: Diagonal Jump after FP grab.

[media=youtube]K4yR0DOi5yE&feature=related[/media] ? EA Megaman (Honda) vs. Justin Wong (Sagat)

vs. M. Bison (Dictator):

Thelo on Dictator

[details=Spoiler]
Dictator matchup can be surprisingly tough. There will be basically two distances where Dictator will be: either at fullscreen, spamming jabs, or right in your face trying to overwhelm you.

If he’s at fullscreen, the good news is that for any offense he tries, you have a good answer. Especially watch out whether he is standing or crouching. If he’s crouching for more than one second, he will likely try to headstomp you. You have two major possibilities here: the safest one is to just highblock (keep holding :l:), then punish him with a fierce headbutt when he goes back down. The other possibility is to fierce headbutt as soon as he crouches, since his crouch jabs are much more vulnerable to headbutts than his standing ones.

If he stays standing with jabs at fullscreen, the first thing to NOT do is headbutt - you’ll be cleanly beaten. Just block in :db: for a while. If he does a fierce psycho crusher, you can punish him after blocking it with :mp: HHS. If he does a jab psycho crusher, you can punish him right before he touches you with :lk: buttslam (not :mk:!). If he does scissor kicks, immediately try a :mk: buttslam out of blockstun. He will either backjump (your buttslam will whiff) or try anything else (your buttslam connects and you win). Alternatively, if he always backjumps, you can nail him right after he lands with a fierce headbutt.

The scary thing is that you have no way to safely advance on him, because his psycho crusher can beat all of your offenses when timed right. Just remember that it’s the same way for him, and keep turtling as long as you have life advantage. If you don’t have life advantage, fullscreen whiffed low :lp: -> :hp: HHS -> :hk: buttslam is a decent way to quickly pressure him, as are HHS chains if he’s not fast enough with punishing psycho crushers.

Megaman also likes to walk forward a bit and do standing :lp: to interrupt psycho crushers - if you can pull it off with a good prediction or two, you can really gain psychological advantage by shutting down his psycho crushers.

If Dictator is in your face and tries to blockstring you, you only have one move to remember: buttslam. Break through any gaps in his attacks with that move, it really is an all-purpose miracle. Once you land a knockdown, go ahead and do crossup :hk: -> low :lp: -> ochio -> :mp: HHS pressure.

Dictator should never be able to throw you, because you have stored ochio. Store that :r::df::d::db: and mash the punches whenever he does a medium crusher or scissor kicks, and punish him with a good old ochio. He’ll think twice before trying to attack you after you do it a couple times.

Don’t be afraid to block a lot if you don’t have charge - ochio doesn’t need charge and it’ll get you home free from overly aggressive Dictators. Especially don’t be afraid to block his meaty low :mk: when you get up from a knockdown, it won’t chip damage you and missing your reversal there can really hurt.

Of course, if you ever get in range to do jumping short -> ochio, go nuts with it. Similarly, if Dictator ever just stays at 3/4 screen distance for any reason, go ahead and do :hk: buttslam. These are free wins if Dictator is foolish enough to let you do them.

In the corner, a really good way to tick Dictator when he gets up is with vertical jumping short, it tends to be less vulnerable to counterthrows than dagonal jumping short, and is also way safer against his wakeup super (he’ll fly right under you).

If he ever does escaping devil’s reverse, you can usually punish it with buttslam while it goes down (it’s so slow that you’ll have time to charge), or if it crosses you up to the other side of the screen, a quick low :lp: -> :hp: HHS will catch him just in time.[/details]

Safe jump on throw: Either Jump after either Grab (Bison has no non-super reversals).

4

Honda’s Dirty Tricks

[details=Spoiler]
(on knockdown)** Cross-up HK Buttslam -> MP Hundred Hands loop**: Works best on Chun-Li, Vega/Claw, Bison/Dictator, Fei Long. Ineffective against** Ken, Blanka*** (0-startup attacks that trade).*

Effectively, you use Hundred Hand Slap to close the distance between your opponent and you, and then do a roundhouse buttslam to cross the opponent up (messing with reversal motions). The buttslam must be blocked high. If the buttslam hits, they get knocked down, allowing you to repeat the process. If it is blocked, it’s safe on block, and hundred hand slap either does good chip damage, or they forget to block low and it sneaks in a real hit or two. Also, by blocking high, any charge character loses both of their charges; their hold-back charge is lost when you cross them up, and their hold-down charge is lost when they block high.[/details]

Throw Followups

[details=Spoiler]
Fierce Throw (hugs)
Cross-up HK (Works on Guile, T. Hawk, Chun Li, Zangief (left side only), Dhalsim, Dictator): Opens you up for Honda’s cross-up combos anywhere but the corner (see Honda Combo list for more info). On the characters this works on, this is the best cross-up combo setup Honda has, as once you connect the throw, the crossup is safe.

Walk-under cr. HK (Corner-only on Boxer, Cammy, Dee Jay, Dictator, works anywhere on anyone else): Unique follow-up in that your opponent must block low in the opposite direction. Unsafe against reversal throws, but unless you’re against T. Hawk, another Honda, or Zangief, the reward outweighs the risk, as you can potentially get a knockdown or follow up for guaranteed chip damage with Hundred Hands if the sweep is blocked.

Cross-up buttslam (Works on everybody, corner only): Once you work your opponent into a corner, Roundhouse Buttslam will cross them up after they break out of HP grab. Either they block high as a crossup, in which case you can follow up with Hundred Hands, or they don’t, in which case you can proceed with the HK buttslam -> MP Hundred Hands trap.[/details]

Honda versus Reversals!

[details=Spoiler]
Ryu shoryuken: Meaty far stand jab, empty jump, KD then crossup roundhouse
Ryu super: Jump short
Ken shoryuken: Meaty far stand jab (only against jab shoryuken), empty jump, KD then crossup roundhouse
Ken super: KD then crossup
Guile flash kick: KD then crossup roundhouse (works 100%!)
Guile super: Uh…
Chun upkicks: Vertical jump short (delayed), buttslam (delayed), empty jump-in
Chun super: Vertical jump short (delayed), buttslam (delayed)
Blanka upball: Just do meaty HHS, at worst it’ll trade
Blanka super: Snuff it with a late jump short (forwards or backwards), or block then HHS back to equalize damage
Honda wakeup buttslam, headbutt, super: Uh… vertical jump short a small distance away as they get up after a KD
Zangief lariat: Vertical jump fierce (steer it to hit with the tip of your hand)
Dhalsim super: KD then crossup
Balrog headbutt: Safe jump short
Balrog super: Early jump-in short, so amazing (You want to be airborne when he activates super)
Vega flipkick: KD then crossup roundhouse or crossup buttslam for free damage. Roundhouse buttslam to crossup is handy because of its range, but crossup roundhouse usually leads to better damage.
Sagat Tiger uppercut: Meaty far jab HHS, high jump fierce
Sagat super: It’s possible to jump fierce it between the knee and uppercut parts, but that’s really hard, so just block it then punish
Bison super: KD then delayed vertical jump short, crossup (doesn’t work that well)
T.Hawk uppercut: Uh… you can far meaty sweep I think?
Fei Long flame kick: KD, then vertical jump fierce next to him (flamekick doesn’t have enough range to hit you if you wait until the last moment to hit fierce) or crossup roundhouse (watch out for eating a chicken wing, keep that ochio attempt in negative edge)
Fei Long super: KD then crossup
Deejay upkicks: Empty jump-in, far meaty sweep (upkicks whiff)
Deejay super: Jump-in short
Cammy thrust kick: KD then crossup
Cammy super: KD then crossup [/details]

Honda Thread Wishlist

[details=Spoiler]
-Detailed Ken Matchup Information

-Video for:
–Honda vs. Dictator
–Honda vs. Blanka
–Honda vs. Guile
–Honda vs. Claw
–Honda vs. Boxer
–Honda vs. Honda
–Honda vs. Dhalsim
–Honda vs. Zangief
–Honda vs. Cammy

-More Honda Dirty Tricks

-Throw follow-ups (Ochio, teched/unteched MP, HP, HK[/details]

E. Honda Online:

Thelo
XBL: TheloTheGreat

EA Megaman
XBL: EA Megaman

MisterEgoTrip
XBL: MisterEgoTrip
PSN: MisterEgoTrip

studtrooper
XBL: Mr x64
PSN: deadpool_zero

Kuroppi
XBL: x kuroppi x
PSN: kuroppi

The Mad King
XBL: MadKingCrimson

alex6x6x6
XBL: lilsmokemonster

Super1NYC
XBL: Super1NYC

Kacom
XBL: Kacom

Vestax
XBL: Vestax11
PSN: VestaxDJM

mad possum
XBL: mad possum
PSN: madpossum

PlanetRV
XBL: PlanetRV

If I’ve missed you, shoot me a PM and I’ll edit you in!

5

Do we really need to re-do everyone’s character thread?

6

My name is Thelo, and I approve of this thread.

7

Eh… yeah, ok. This is pretty useful to have all this info consolidated. It would be nice though if we could integrate this into the first post of the main thread but whatevs.

8

If I’ve missed any videos or matchup info, always feel free to contribute!

9

In my opinion I think we do. So long as people are willing to maintain the first few posts it’s always better to keep information consolidated rather than have people wade through a years wroth of posts.

10

Zangief’s lariat is also a reversal, so that won’t work. After an throw, you can just do floating fierce (away) -> MP HHS safely anyway, so don’t try to safe jump Zangief.

Or at least I’ve never actually been punished for doing floating fierce on a wakeup Zangief. Maybe his lariat can beat it? No clue on that.

11

Yeah, the Lariat is a pretty good reversal, even vs a safe jump, though it’s hard to time due to the motion. It doesn’t hit on the 1st frame, but it hits on the 2nd or 3rd frame, or pretty early really, so you better be on your safe jump timing vs a reversal Lariat happy Zangief player. = J I don’t think the Lariat can beat a neutral j Fierce or Forward, but if you’re gonna follow that up with Slaps, you better do it with combo timing, or Honda’s gonna get sucked in by my reversal SPD happy Zangief. = J Jump attacks and meaty Torpedo are probably the safest options Honda has IMHO.

12

“Zangief’s lariat is also a reversal, so that won’t work. After an throw, you can just do floating fierce (away) -> MP HHS safely anyway, so don’t try to safe jump Zangief.”

Zangief’s Lariat (both versions) is vulnerable on the first frame. The second frame is the one with a gargantuan hitbox. That said, Honda (and indeed most of the cast) doesn’t have any jumping attacks that will cover both Zangief crouching and first frames of the Lariat, so it’s going to be a mix up situation unless the spacing is exquisitely favorable.

13

Thank you for doing this thread sir. Much props.

14

I don’t think safe jumping against Zangief is ever a good idea. Unless you plan on following it up with cr.short > HHS, or cr. short Headbutt. Of course, after cr.short > HHS you run the risk of an alert Gief getting a free SPD if it hits.

I hate playing really good Giefs because you pretty much have to turtle up, which can be kinda boring, LOL.

Old thread was getting kinda big for newer people to go through, I think consolidating was a good idea.

15

Would any Honda’s be interested in facing my Dee-Jay sometime this week? I main Vega and Cammy so Honda is a huge thorn in my side. I can play Dee-Jay pretty decent (I can do his BnB combos somewhat consistently) but need experience from high level Honda’s. Let me know. Cheers.

16

What time are you usually on? I’m on at weird times during the week.

17

9-ish EST, though its shifting this week because I have essays to write. I’ve sent you a FR just now so I’ll send you an invite when I see you :slight_smile: Cheers, thanks in advance!

18

My name is EA Megaman, and I also approve this thread.

*(We talked about doing this a while ago, but work got in the way for me.)

*I would add to the Ryu section that a far standing jab is a great meaty after a knockdown. It will safely avoid his SRK and will beat out (correctly timed that is) a reversal Tatsu. If it hits block low (he can get out a MP/MK if you try to walk in throw,) if it is blocked either bait an SRK or take a half step in for a RH grab into safe jump shenanigans. It was a huge boost to my Ryu game plan and came by way of UltraDavid. Who is a genius. :tup:

You can’t safe jump after a grab on either Boxer or Dee Jay if they have super. Chun’s will whiff under you and you’ll block Guile’s.

You might also want to note which characters the diagonal jump (FK/MK) will cross up after FP grab. It won’t cross up after FK grab.

With Dhalsim… I have some special knowledge of that match, having ran that back with SweetJohnnyV about a million times over. A well timed cr.LK will stuff his far standing FP. Which you can use to cancel into hands and be up in his shit. Neutral jumping MK will also beat that. A far standing jab will beat his far MK and far FK. And MP hands also does a good job of stuffing his far kicks. Don’t rely on jab headbutt in the match. It’ll make you eat a FP. You can run a throw loop on his ass because his throw range sucks. FK grab -> Diagonal Jump FK -> FK grab till he’s dead. Incidentially this also works on Balrog, Dee Jay, and Guile. He has three methods of escape. He can take the hit on the FK and counter throw, at which point you will combo him for doing that. If he teleports most likely he’s still right next to you because that move sucks. Grab him and run it again. His last method of escape is super, but if he doesn’t have it yet he’s screwed. You can also pretty much run a train on him in the corner using cr.LK canceled into MK/FK sumo smash. The only other time the throw loops don’t work is in the corner. But if you’re at mid screen go for it. Also with Dhalsim neutral jump over those fireballs with a MK. He can’t hit you with his far MK/FK crap as easily.

Also, since the RH and FP grabs have so much range, mix up those ticks. After crossing up some people can be hit with two standing jabs. Namely charge characters but it also works great on Ryu. Tap twice with LP then throw, it really throws off reversals. And a MP into throw is also really tight. Most people either go for one LP or one cr.LK, so most people are trained to reversal at those times. Throw it off and they are screwed.

With Zangief you can anti-air every single jump-in that he has with a far standing LP. In that match it’s somewhat beneficial to give up your charge and make him want to jump at you. By managing the spacing well, you can win an entire match by making him jump into your jab.

Against Blanka jump in at him sometimes with MK (not Down+MK, just the kick) into throw shenanigans. Jump in MK beats electricity and a lot of his normals. ***(Thanks Fatboy!)

In the Fei Long match, it’s pretty much covered, except that far standing LP will stuff his Rekkas. And don’t fall for what Thelo and I did constantly in those videos. The two Rekka pause into flame kick. Just sit on your stored Ochio and if he walks in sit on his face.

Guile is a fun match for me. Most of the tatics are covered in Chaghatai’s post, a few notable things - cr.MP stuffs his forward. So when you get him trapped in the corner and you know he’s going to throw out one of those suff it. Don’t butt slam at him int he corner. He can nail it with cr.FP. Play footsies and go for the trip when he booms. Then fuck his shit up. Also a great trick on this fool is once you do get the FP grab, you can cross under him and do a cr.FK. This will hit him with the back of your FK. This will either trip him and give you a free cross-up to shove him back in the corner, or he will block it and provide you with a perfect throw setup with a long (remember, you hit him with the FK) block-stun making it difficult for him to reversal.

Also I just remembered something about throw/cross-up/safe-jump shenanigans. They don’t work if the stage has a breakable object that breaks as they fall away from the throw. Once the breakable object is gone they will work fine, but when the object breaks it throws off the spacing enough to screw up the cross-up/under/safe jump.

That’s about all I can think of right now to add. I’ll post again if I remember anything useful. Thanks again for consolidating this information!

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My name is fatboy and is [dis]approve this message… We do not need to be spreading such information… :wink:

20

So last Tuesday I played some HD Remix with the local Montreal crew, and the biggest surprise of the evening was a Cammy player who teared it up. I think he’s the second Cammy I’ve actually been afraid of (first being Sirlin). Now Sirlin’s #1 tool in that Cammy v Honda matchup is vertical jumping MP, everything is based on it, but this guy’s main tool was actually the crossup dizzy combo.

He did crossup jumping short, something, something, drill (KD, dizzy), then repeat. If I tried to jab headbutt or buttslam it, I just sailed under Cammy and he could throw the recovery, then repeat. If I supered, it traded with the jump short (then someone gets thrown) or it outright lost then I ate dizzy combo. It really felt like fighting Bison, because that dizzy combo was basically an instant win and he landed it 100%.

He also liked to mix it up with Hooligan after a blockstring or two if I blocked it, such that HHS or standing jab didn’t beat it (only headbutt did).

So I had to wise up a bit and just block that crossup, and not even try to slap it out of the air. Then I could ochio (if he misspaced it and whiffed the crossup) or block until the drill (then ochio), or block until the hooligan (then headbutt), or block until he just stops, for a reset at midscreen. I also had to tone down the random headbutts because he could just jump over them and punish with the dizzy combo for an instant win. Again it felt a lot like fighting a Bison with a DP, his whole game was based on that combo and some quick throws.

Pretty often he just blatantly walked up to me and crossed me up while I was downbacking. That kind of worked because of the drill threat (beats HHS startup, trades with headbutt when extended, safely chips your block) + vertical jump threat (beats headbutts, fierce HHS).

So how did I beat this? Surprisingly enough, what worked the best at close range wasn’t the HHS or headbutt, it was the jump. Jump anything beats the drill, backjump beats everything but gives up position, forwardjump early splash (:d:+:mk:) beats everything that’s not a DP including that annoying jump short. I ended up doing jumping splashes a lot, more of them at midrange and less at longrange. I also had to train myself to wait in block, then quickly headbutt hooligan “tick throws” because that’s the only thing that really works, mashing these punches for the usual ochio / HHS just gets you thrown.

Also, just blocking is pretty good, if you can afford to take a bit of chip. Just blocking mostly beats the whole crossup situation, and lets you punish DPs and misspaced drills. Better to take a bit of drill chip than to try to counter something, whiff, and instalose to that dizzy combo.