I think they can make it look like they will cross-up then quickly go back. I usually just react to head stomp with Lp headbutt. Can fail but works almost all the time. Also if i don’t react to the start of head stomp and they get to me, I usually just go for fierce headbutt(after Head stomp) and it either hits, auto corrects(to hit cross-up follow-up), or standing hard punch comes out(the good one). Only way I get bucked is if Dic doesn’t follow up and jumps back(after landing from head stomp) to punish headbutt or try his super. To avoid this I guess you could use Lp headbutt to counter follow up, but I do what I do and it works all day. =P
You should only headbutt off a blocked Headstomp if the try to do the follow up (either in front or behind, it will always go in the correct direction if you time it right). If they fly away after the blocked HS and you HP Headbutt, they have time to jump again and hit you out of your headbutt, usually even able to follow with a dizzy combo.
Standing jab is great in the Bison match-up, it beats Scissor kicks, Psycho Crushers, and his standing MK and HK. If a Bison is turtling (just standing at the other end of the screen charging or jamming on the jab button like a spaz on a caffeine high) you can just walk forward and counter whatever he throws at you with a well timed standing jab (lots of Bisons will just sit there and as soon as you walk forward without charge they will SK/PC).
I know all that, but standing jab gets hit by psychos from a distance so just throwing them out is good. I don’t think its good to try to actually hit PCs with standing jab. Never really works…
It is easy to do it too early on HP PC’s and have it hit the jabs recovery. Not much actually beats st.LP from max distance, its such a great move. ST.LP works great on MP and LP PC’s (which the better Bisons will use more often against Honda). Those are pretty easy to time. For HP ones I either just jab headbutt (if charged) or just block it and follow with a throw or HHS, depending on spacing.
I know you know most of this, I was just throwing some stuff out there while we were talking about Bison in case there are any lurkers reading the thread. I have a feeling no one comes to this forum except us regulars, but just in case it’s good to help any newer Honda players out there (I get messages all the time online from newer players asking questions).
Another thing I see is a lot is Bison players getting away with wiffing LP and MP PCs. If they don’t touch you they are easy headbutt counters in the wind-down frames.
The one Bison thing that really beats up a Honda’s plan to walkup and stand jab a lot is slide. That goddamn thing has hit me out of more stand jab attempts that I care to remember. It obviously won’t hit you from fullscreen, but it’s an actual threat from 3/4 screen if you like to stand jab a lot, and he doesn’t need any sort of charge to whip it out. I still use stand jabs, if only for the threat, but I always keep in mind that risk.
Also yeah, it’s iffy versus fierce psycho crushers that aren’t thrown at the “obvious” times, you can’t really react to that and must predict it. Fierce psycho crusher travels fast and stand jab isn’t instant.
Another thing to remember about Bison is that his only non-Super reversal, the Devil Reverse, only works against moves on the ground. So if I get a knockdown I always do a jumping cross-up or a straight up neutral jumping short as they get up, so they cant DR away. If you just do a normal ground tick (like cr.jab) they can DR right out.
My favorite to do is neutral jumping short when they’re knocked down, spaced so you’re outside his throw range but in yours. They can’t DR away and can’t reversal the throw (without Super).
Yes, yes, a thousand times agreed. Another benefit of jumping ticks like neutral jump short is that it gets you immune to reversal throws. Even if Bison has super and reversals with it, a neutral jumping short will usually only get hit by 1 hit of the Bison super, for puny damage. n.j. short is an incredibly good tick and you, the reader, should use it too!
Isn’t the first 3/2/1 frames of Dictator’s jab/strong/fierce Psycho Crasher invincible, so he could use it to avoid those tick throws?
Reversal psycho crusher never works to escape tick throws, but I don’t remember exactly why it doesn’t. Maybe it’s not actually throw-invulnerable?
The start up of Bison’s PC is fully throwable.
Related: Honda’s Headbutt start-up is also fully throwable, so if you are trying to reverse a tick throw you should use Sumo Smash. If you don’t have a down charge, use Fierce HB, it’s hitting frames start sooner so it gives you a better chance if they don’t time their tick throw (or try for reversal throw, if in range).
The startup after the invincible is still grounded and vulnerable
I’m not sure if this will work really good vs Dic, but it works pretty damn good vs sim. (Maybe works good with other non DP chars after cross up, but it pushes you back which is not where you want to be.)
Anyways…
Probably best time to do this is as a meaty or after a cross-up. If a Cr. Lp is blocked, throw out a light kick into fierce headbutt right after. (hands should work too, but are just too punishable.) This is especially good for sim because sim players always mash under pressure of ochio. Crouching light kick will put a dent into them… I hate sim man…
Another thing… How does Honda beat sim? How the hell can Honda get in 100%? Doesn’t sim have advantage on start up round to put himself in a good position? Sure he has no real reversal, but Honda’s only getting in if HE makes a mistake. A really big mistake in fact.
The good thing about playing Sim is you don’t even have to get in, just try to get trades. Honda wins all trades with Sim by a wide margin. Also if you get into Sumo Smash range, Sim doesn’t have a very good answer for it. An early st.MP can counter it, but that’s really hard to do and the risk vs. reward for that is all in Honda’s favor. Sometimes they can slide to cause it to wiff, but again this isn’t easy for Sim to do. And once they block a SS they have to deal with throw/cr.short->HHS / Headbutt mix-ups.
Some tips on getting in:
If the Sim likes to stick out towards+MK or towards+HK to hit you as you jump over fireballs you can usually trade with an early jumping HK, or hit clean with a well timed nuetral jumping MK.
If he does long range cr.punches to stop jump-ins, then just use a jumping short to hit clean (tack on HHS as a follow up for more damage/move closer).
If he does slides to stop jump-ins, just do jumping short or jumping down+MK splash to hit clean.
If he does crouching back+punch or kick to stop jump-ins, you can usually hit clean with a maximum range jumping MK (not splash), but really, at that point you’ll take the little bit of damage those do because you’ll be right in his face.
His best move to stop jump-ins is his back+jab, to counter this I try to space an empty jump or a jumping short to land right in front of him (back+jab wiffs) then go right into throw, HHS, Sumo Smash, etc.
If he doesn’t throw any fireballs but will stick out long range limbs to keep you from walking forward, you can use cr.jab or cr.strong to counter the low ones, standing jab and standing short and standing forward kick all counter his high kicks. Or just use a well timed HP Headbutt.
If they jump backwards a lot, time a HP Headbutt to hit them just as they land. Don’t do it too early or you’ll eat a drill. If you do it to late they’ll just block or be able to hit you with a cr.jab, which you’ll take because you’ll be in where you want to be. Carefull if they have Super, if your late on your timing they could super as soon as they land and that you don’t want to eat, LOL.
So basically mix it up and the Sim players has to either be extremely fast or guess how you’re going to jump in. It only takes one wrong guess by sim for Honda to be in doing damage. Anmd remember, Honda wins all trades.
Here’s a really long write-up I did in the Sim thread. Maybe understanding the mindset of your opponent will help you guys. :wgrin:
Yeah sounds a lot easier than it is. Plus if you win the trade you are usually never in a good position. Bottom line, if sim plays right then he will win. If he messes up he is in a bad position, but can still get out. IMHO the match up is between 5-5 and 6-4 for sim. I think I am the only American that says this so I get shunned for it, but there is just no way Honda has favor.
I also think its pretty close to 5-5. Yes, if the Sim player plays absolutely perfectly you will probably lose, but not no one plays perfectly during the whole round, not Afrocole, not anyone. If you react quickly and mix it up they will have to guess at some point, and there is too many different ways you can come at them for them to always guess right. As long as you’re timing and spacing is spot on you should get at least one shot to do some decent damage.
And remember, if you win a few poking trades and get a lead you can turtle and make him come to you, which he has no good way to attack (as long as you’re pateint when countering drills/block strings).
If you manage to grab them with either HP or HK just once, round should be over.
It’s my favorite match-up because it’s a beautifull ballet of tense zoning and spacing on both sides.
You definitely can’t turtle.
Here’s an example of playing on spot as sim. [media=youtube]IO_NErhCuUM"[/media] He messed up once in the match, and then Kusu’s mix up FAILED.
no one can ever use gain matches for match up examples because he is the ST god. greater then daigo IMHO. in his hands, sim is the best player in the game. god tier.
you must use another sim player to prove your point now.
HAHAHA!!
Making me laugh all day everyday brotha <3