You do know that’s Tokido in that vid right? Did you not see him avoiding Wong’s wall dives?
‘Don’t be a scrub!’
you care too much about what other people think
If you’ve been playing since guile’s standing fierce into flash kick that implies you’ve been playing since invisible throw, which implies you have had about 17 years to get used to totally imbalanced street fighter.
If it still bothers you, you should play a different game. I suggest checkers.
Afro does not play anymore, at least I never see him on GGPO and only played a quick set of 5 against his Rog.
Secondly, I think its safe to say that Afro is one of the better ST players out there.
I don’t think its a suitable basis of comparison to say the best Dj in the world (quite possibly) can stop it then its acceptable, do you have any idea how ridicilous that suggestion sounds?
If anything it actually highlights my concern because you’re having to use such a top player as an example of counering it. That’s not what this is about.
Not one of you has actually been able to constructively say how to stop it , and you know why? because you can’t. There is a LOT of guess work in it at certain points.
I don’t have time to make this game my life, and my claw has about 60 minutes of play time since 1994, yet even with that, I took games off a really nice sim last night, from someone who had been previously playing him religiously FOR YEARS and does beat good players in Europe.
And all I did was knock him down and put him in that position where he had to guess where I was going, he still won more games, the but tevery one of my wins was due to the walldive exploit.
I’m not gonna stop playing claws, I jsut find the matchup incredibly boring and uninspiring to play. I’ll get a stick soon and will start to be able to play characters who I know can get out of it easily.
But relying on such shitty tactics to win games and taking anything from them is still a false victory in my eyes.
Winning is winning, but relying on skanky play which relies on minimal skill to execute and returns maximum gains is cheating yourself in the long run because that explaoit is game dependant.
That is why Daigo does so good, he plays a solid Ryu, that is a character which survives on raw skill which makes him a better player everytime he plays.
Sitting back and relying on skank play only retards you as a player.
Sure we can. Hell, check any of the character matchup threads–I bet most of them have advice on getting out of Claw’s wall-dive traps. But if you’re coming in here assuming unfair, cheesy play, not listening to criticism, and responding to it by being an ass, why is it then our obligation to be constructive toward you?
As for comparing strong tactics to skill–knowing the best tactic to use at any given time is the most important skill in Street Fighter. If you avoid using them simply because you’re worried about honorable play, or skill in execution, then you’re missing the point of the game.
I don’t need to check, I have see players like Wong get destroyed by it in videos, I have also taken games of some really high level sim players with lesss than 60 minutes play of vega in over 10 years.Using that single tactic. WOW great skill, should I somehow commend myself for winning those games? I think not because unlike yourself I actually play with some form of code to my game. Its the difference between people who have some class and those that don’t, don’t feel badly.
You’re the sort of idiot I am referring too who does anything to win even if its a tactic that would have been chaged had the developers realised that it was as powerful as it is. And worse still you take pride in it.
I have taken games off some of the best USA players, I’m really not interested in your childish opinions of me. I know I’m good ok (and I have a game development career stemmed from that skill), I don’t need some scrubby nobody on ShoryuKen telling me otherwise.
I’m just saying there are things in this game which require minimum skill to execute that can have major on the outcome of the game.
If something is a very effective or powerful tactic in a game its common knowledge to make it difficult to perform, that is why Spinning pile drivers command something more complicated than pressing forwards and a punch.
And probably why Sirlin nerfed it in Remix.
But I have never seen such an effective tactic that required so little skill to perform and so much skill to avoid (once you have the loop going). I’m simply saying, a real player would take nothing from those victories.
If you can’t grasp the basics of game design then I’m not interested in your childish “you suck” opinions.
So you’re judging a tactic based on a few match videos and anecdotal evidence rather than researching it and taking in the big picture, while insulting those who are trying to inform you, and this is what you’re bringing to your supposed game development career? Haha, good luck with that, junior. I’m done with your nonsense.
This is either an epic trolling effort, or a desperate cry for help from someone who can’t stop one move, either way it’s ended up pretty funny.
The fact still remains that you are crying foul over one thing, one single move that while very strong, can be turned down by any character in the game with enough practice and thinking. We get it, you think claw is cheap and instead of coming in and starting a legitimate thread to discuss ways to deal with it, or to ask some questions on how to better yourself as a player, you chose to call everyone a bunch of “dishonourable skanks and scrubs”. Brilliant strategy, probably almost as good as your ST strats!
Oh and thanks for the gold about beating top US players and your game design career, that started my monday off on the right foot, it’s always easier to get in a nice working mood after you’ve laughed your ass off for a good 5 minutes.
I loved how you showed the Justin rape vid, but failed to show Justin coming back next match and beating that same exact tactic with Ken. Way to go.
As for this “code”, what’s the point of honor in FG’s anymore? Casually, whether it’s with friends, or fellow SRKers at a gathering, then sure, hold back a little. Come tourney time, anyone who’s playing is playing to win, using any means necessary. In war, are you gonna use a peashooter over an AK-47, simply because “the bullets are too strong”? HELL NO! You’re gonna pull out the AK and say “fuck this, I win”.
I play Cammy in ST, so I lose to damn near everything. Vega’s Izuna mixups are the least of my problems. Yet, if Honda comes in and HHS’s me all over the place, should I call the other guy out because he’s using Cammy’s worst match-up? HELL NO! It’s a game, lrn2play.
I hate this thread.
Save it for the “10 Things I Hate About SRK” speech at the end of the year. 
wow…
it’s a good time to post this again: there was another thread just like this and you fit this description perfectly : http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=34747
HA!
You know who does know how game design works? The development team at Capcom.
Your argument of “I’m a budding game developer so I know what I’m talking about” doesn’t really have any merit. I would guess there are over 100 years of combined experience via the developers at Capcom that have gone over balance issues in this game.
But you’re right. They probably haven’t noticed it yet. Luckily you’re here to remind them about fixing that “bug” that’s been left in the game virtually unchanged for almost 20 years.
Hi
Today I would like to talk about honour in fighting games.
Honour or Honor (see spelling differences), (from the Latin word honos, honoris) is the evaluation of a person’s trustworthiness and social status based on that individual’s espousals and actions. Honour is deemed exactly what determines a person’s character: whether or not the person reflects honesty, respect, integrity, or fairness. Accordingly, individuals are assigned worth and stature based on the harmony of their actions, code of honour, and that of the society at large. Honour can be analysed as a relativistic concept, i.e., conflicts between individuals and even cultures arising as a consequence of material circumstance and ambition, rather than fundamental differences in principle. Alternatively, it can be viewed as nativist that honour is as real to the human condition as love, and likewise derives from the formative personal bonds that establish one’s personal dignity and character.
Dr Samuel Johnson, in his A Dictionary of the English Language (1755), defined honour as having several senses, the first of which was “nobility of soul, magnanimity, and a scorn of meanness.” This sort of honour derives from the perceived virtuous conduct and personal integrity of the person endowed with it. On the other hand, Johnson also defined honour in relationship to “reputation” and “fame”; to “privileges of rank or birth”, and as “respect” of the kind which “places an individual socially and determines his right to precedence.” This sort of honour is not so much a function of moral or ethical excellence, as it is a consequence of power. Finally, with respect to women, honour may be synonymous with “chastity” or “virginity”, or in case of a married woman, “fidelity”.
And that about does it folks.
No, because you’re the one who brought up the idea that you can repeatedly wall dive against Dee Jay and that it works even against top players. I just told you all you needed was a reversal, basically telling you the solution. I have no idea what you’re doing but I know that afro gets his reversals a majority of the time. Thus, I’ve proven it’s not a game breaker against Dee Jay and not a shortcut to victory against top players.
I’m not sure who your really good Dhalsim player is (and it doesn’t really matter) but I’ve probably played more online ST than anyone in the last 2 years and don’t recall ever seeing a great Dhalsim player from Europe, no disrespect. I’ve played every good Dhalsim in the US online and they all believe the match is fairly close to even (just check out nohoho’s chart). Wall diving is pretty much key for claw in that match since you weren’t aware. Without it, the match would be heavily lopsided in Dhalsim’s favor. But then, it’s your job as claw to avoid and get out of throw loops, which are harder to land but also harder to get out of than wall dives. That’s the beauty of ST and it’s pretty apparent that for all the years you’ve been playing (which is likely comparable to most people who still play the game), you haven’t spent the actual number of hours needed.
You’ve basically encountered a roadblock on your path to the top of the mountain you chose to climb and you can either find the tough way around it or you can just sit at that spot and complain about the unfairness of the mountain.
why do you guys keep feeding this troll?
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Hey Look, a DJ that beat Claw, No Wei D00d.
It’s funny that you would mention David Sirlin with the attitude you have. He has an article called “Playing to Win” he wrote eons ago that states when competing to win, you utilize all the tools available to you within the scope of the game to win.
If you cannot counter wall-dives, why -should- I not use them to defeat you? Rather than having the mentality that “Wall-Dives are cheap and require no skill! YOU SHOULDNT USE THEM”
You should be thinking “How do I beat wall-dive. What can I do to stuff that move?” if all your opponent knows how to do is wall-dive spam, you defeat the wall-dive, you’ll defeat the player.
Instead though, you are touting some arbitrary code of “honour.” You are not a samurai. Street Fighter is not Feudal Japan. If we were to ban moves that people find a use for that the devs did not intend, then you would be banning Hurricane kicks, especially when Ryus use them right before they land from a jump to do nothing other than build meter.
Obviously this wasn’t intended of hurricane kicks… Or was it? How can you know for sure. Watch the videos I linked, and see how leery those Claws are to use dives. Use a dive too much and you become predictable, and high level players will beat the dive every time if used predictably.
I hate to be rude, but…
Walldives r fien. lrn2play.
i think what jamerio is saying is that the damage (and potential for more damage after the first knockdown) is disproportionately high considering how easy the move is to pull off. that isn’t to say it’s “cheap” or whatever, but compared to tick-throwing with hawk or whatever, it is an easy move to do.
does anyone have some good youtube links of noguchi’s wall-diving being stopped in it’s tracks? his claw is far more centred around that tactic compared to ARG, who has a more ground-based game 
wasn’t there a CE claw player in xmania 7 called “Holy Scarlet Bal”?
OP: What’s your point and what are you trying to accomplish? Are Vega wall dives overpowered and suck? Absolutely. But it’s in the game, and until it’s banned, it’s gonna stay in the game. Hell, even if it’s banned doesn’t mean you won’t run into it online, I’ve played against plenty of Akumas on GGPO lol.
So what are you trying to do here? Rally people to banned something in a 15+ year old game? Not going to happen, and that’s why people view your posts as just whining. You saying something is overpowered, isn’t going to change anything. We know it’s overpowered, like I said it’s a 15+ year old game, deal with it.
So what should you do? Learn to counter it. Oh but Justin Wong can’t beat it. That was one match, like a previous poster said, Justin came back next match and countered with Ken.
You need to go play another game or something because ST is about as cheap as they come lol. If you haven’t learned to deal with all the BS by now then it’s about time you quit.