Don's Arcade aka Astro City: Torrance/Carson Fridays 8pm-3am

Regional Matchmaking Pacific South
701

A lot of ST players actually like 3s as a game. The biggest problem with ST and 3s players is the playstyle of the game. ST runs a lot faster and is unforgiving (meaning no damage scaling). 3s has damage scaling and is a little more lenient with this. The differences between the players of both is that each game is too complex to really understand both. It literally takes years to fully grasp the basic understanding of both ST and 3s. I think a majority of ST players respect 3s players and the game they play and vice versa.

Overall, I think that both games play similar to each other in that they both have a lot of depth to them, but in the end are completely different games. The biggest thing to really understand about both games and their players is that there is a mutual respect amongst the players because of the understanding that each has for their perspective game.

A lot of new school players hate playing the older games because they don’t understand the concept of having to do everything on their own. There is no auto correct system. There is no system that rewards you for getting punished. The damage scaling in 3s is nothing compared to SSF4. The mentality of new school players is based on an internet understanding of character matchups and thinking that they should win a match simply because they can counterpick or a match is 6-4 in their favor. Things like this don’t matter especially in a game like 3s because the parry system nullifies any kind of advantage a character can have over another. Yes it is easier to win with other characters because they have more options but it still doesn’t mean they are guaranteed to win.

The real bottom line is a lot of these new school players have been pampered with easy mode fighting games. I think there is some skill involved in SSF4 but I honestly believe that they don’t really understand how it takes commitment, time and money to fully grasp just the basic understanding of a complex fighting game. They are really lucky with having the internet readily available to them had having other people doing the work for them that all they have to do is log on to SRK and just read about how to become a better player. They don’t really know what commitment to understanding a game really is.

702

Couple of comments:

i know very well of the quality of players at MVC3, i guess i was expecting the same turn out as it was before, room packed yelling screaming etc etc. but i digress.

heres my opinion about your little debate regarding new school games versus old school: this coming from a non sf3, ST, GGAC, whatever pre year 1995 player.

I enjoy marvel 3 like really enjoy it far more that SSF4. and i know you nay sayers will say learn ST, 3s or whatever. But the point of the matter its not about whether the game is easy or not, its because if i took the time to learn those games, it would be an amazing difficult uphill battle to learn the bible of knowledge for that game. further more i would also be left with a game with practically no local competition ( besides your place dons). in other words, its boring to me. theres no reason for me to take a step back in that direction.

MVC3, SSF4 are just new school games that do cater towards the easy mode, but as competitive players is that really a bad thing? my point really is why do so many people want a high learning curve in this day of age? Its like complaining that internet killed libraries.

703

I believe in this new trend that a lot of new players use to play fighting games.

Before they play the game they take what’s good on paper (or on the internet) and automatically believe it. They don’t take the time to understand the nuances and the details of the game on their own and try to find their own way to win. Everything is so textbook these days. If I followed this I would have never mained Q.

If I could use a sports analogy is that the best team on paper is usually not the team that wins. You still gotta go out there and play the game.

As an old school player I do like SSFIV and I main Ryu. But what annoys me sometimes about SSFIV is Ryu stupid easy combo of landing an anti air shoryuken and then throwing an ultra fireball after that. Sometimes I feel that that is the stupidest combo ever made by Capcom because not only is it super easy to do but it takes away sooo much life. Why did they put that combo in the game? That combo is one of the things wrong with SSFIV. It shouldn’t be that easy.

704

@inControl

I’m not the type of person who really tells people that they should learn a certain game. I understand that SF4 brought a new generation of players to the table and in this day and age, anything can be taken to a competitive level. I don’t want to knock down SSF4 or MvC3 because they are dumbed down and easy mode games. In all truthfulness, it probably is better as a whole to put games on easy mode because it will keep players around and keep the community as big as it has become.

The real easy mode of the fighting games is not within the game itself. It is with the information that is brought to you and how fast it is put out to our community. You can literally learn everything about a fighting game within a week because of the information people will put out for you to become a better player.

If you want to learn an older game like ST or 3s, I would not be against it at all. I would probably help you if I could. I’ve done it with other players at Don’s place before. If you don’t want to learn the game, I wouldn’t be offended by that either. I’m an old school player so I play those more. One thing that I think old school games can offer new school players that they don’t even think about is the fact that the games Don and myself play are super complex. Learning how to play complex games like 3s and ST could help in the long run for any new school player because you would have a different mentality about how to approach a game. These old school games are more about thinking than anything else and that in itself would help any new school player to get to that next level that they are trying to reach.

705

Sup I’ll play CvS2 but I’m not sure if I can make it this Friday.

706

You have a valid point here and it makes me think about the times we live in today. For me if you want to break it down, I think it all comes down to money and having a video game company like Capcom trying to sell their games in today’s competitive video game market. Now like then, Capcom was always about making money.

The fighting games that have the high learning curve are all if not most originally from the arcade machines. So to get players to keep on spending their monies on the same game at the arcade, the game had to be hard and complex enough so that gamers could return and constantly feed the machine. If you notice back then there was no moves list really on the machines. You had to look in video game magazines or ask someone to figure out how to do a special move. So the more time it took players to learn the game the more money the game made. Also specifically speaking, playing SF2-ST on arcade machine was like playing a slot machine because the matches were so fast since the damage was so high. I mean a match in ST could last about ten seconds if the guy beating everyone was good enough. And if you were on the other side of that beating, most likely you would put a quarter in and run it again so that you could get your pride back. Imagine how fast SF2-ST made money with all those quick matches? The machines probably earned like a quarter every ten to fifteen seconds. Today matches on the new games probably on the average last about a minute.

Now today with SSF4 and MVC3 competing with best selling games like Madden and COD that are outside the genre, games have to be easy enough so that players can play them right away. If the game is too hard to learn it will be a hard sell. The game has to be easy enough to sell a lot of units to as many people as possible.

So you could say it really is the video game market today that dictates this easier learning curve in the new fighting games. It’s interesting because I’m here arguing about skill level when in actuality it’s really money that is the main influence in determining whether a game is hard or not.

For my personal taste a game that is too easy is not that fun.

707

I wouldn’t say that SSF4 is easy, but, I prefer to call it a lot more accessible than its predecessors, for all the reasons Don has stated above; you have an in game move list that I don’t remember ever seeing on a game before KOF 98 remake for DC ( I think it was KOF ), you have the input leniency window opened to where as long as you got the motions it didn’t matter if you were exact, the in game combo tutorials, and the come back factor of getting beat down and getting an ultra ( Which isn’t the same as like in MVC3 or prior games with a meter where you got a percent of super bar while you took damage ).

Supporting Symbolic for a moment, the internet really, REALLY did a lot for the games coming out now. Look back at CVS2 for a moment. When that game came out, people were all over Sagat and Blanka because they were that good–tier whoring if you will. Then the game got a bit more crazier with the roll-canceling-you’re-invincible-for-the-entirety-of-your-special-MADNESS. It took a few years for that to come to light. 3rd Strike had kara cancelling. Compared to SSF4, Ken’s madness of his kara throw was found out in like, two weeks? Then came the kara-focus which had such a huge range and helped him in fireball wars. I dunno much else on SF4 detail shenanigans, but, think about it for a sec; years for knowledge to come about versus weeks.

MVC3 has a good amount of madness coming out on the finer details, but, I say that’s because players know what to look for mostly because the original players are a lot smarter in the fine print of the system now. Look at Desk and what’s been doing. If this was way back when, you’d hear about what he did on a whim in a conversation at the arcade or at home.

High learning curve or not, I just think that there are people that don’t like how simple things are with the engine behind a game. And another thing, screw match up 5-5, 8-2 whatever. You didn’t hear about that back then and we had KSK and amazing Q players that bodied Ken and Chun Li, even when they were regarded as top tier god like characters. I think that’s played a lot in the mind of a new generation where if a match isn’t 5-5 in their favor, they just hit the snore button on the character and move on. Strictly my opinion.

I’m not crapping on any of the new games, I enjoy them in their own right, but, not the same as say 3rd Strike. I enjoy the new generation, and look forward to getting better at them because I honestly haven’t put as much time into them as about nine years of SF3.

How 'bout dat tekken tho.

708

Three words: Quality vs Quantity

If you’re playing a game that has 3,000 players at every major but only 15 are worth noting for exceptional skill and the other 2,985 are just there because it’s the “it” game of the week then I see no difference in playing a game with only 40 Master level players. At least with the 40 you’ll always find something to take home with you and think about whereas in the pool of 3k you’ll have to wait 3 days to play and then end up playing someone at a skill level similar to your little cousin that comes over on the weekends and freaks when she notices your arcade stick. It not only leaves one slightly more satisfied but it also helps you meet more people who are passionate about the same aspects of the genre that entranced you. You might also find yourself learning to appreciate other aspects of “the fight” that you didn’t realize were there.

Easy mode, imo, stagnates a game. I have been playing a lot of marvel with my buddy as of late and have found that I can repeat about 10 “setups” and compete with him. This may not sound like it’s very surprising because in your mind my buddy is a scrub, right? Well, it just so happens that dude learns and plays with Clockwork who just recently took the international Play n’ Trade tournament and he and Clock are reaching an even keel. I don’t even play the game, I just use my 3s basics on “zoning” and spacing. You can’t think you’re learning a game just to learn that game. Fighting games are “semi-universal”, certain aspects of the game can be transferred over to other games including new ones and the ones that don’t go over so smoothly can certainly still be used but in a slightly more abstract way. I guess in the end you gotta chalk it up to passion. Are you passionate about your fighting games?

If yes, learn 3s and Marvel and you’ll pretty much be set for life in regards to “higher” learning curves. You’ll only ever need to learn niche factors like say…perfect guarding during a block string to dash back out of said block string in Guilty Gear or the different wake up timings to each game.

If no, disregard what I say and tell me all about Black Ops. I haven’t played it yet but I heard it’s that much easier to land a headshot! OH AND NIXON AND CASTRO IN ZOMBIES! OMGOMGOMGOMG

Oh yeah, the internet didn’t kill libraries, television did but it’s not like I’d believe most people read books before either of those were released to the public anyway.

I don’t really see what this day and age has to with a higher learning curve, so if you don’t mind I’d like to ask you to elaborate on that please.

709

I expect a line for both 3s and Marvel this Friday. If Saul doesn’t want to go, I’ll just borrow my girls car. If that falls through…Jeremy? <333

710

Does my car look like a yellow cab to you? Well, maybe I could, but, use me as a last resort. OKay gurl?

711

d/f,d/f+P shortcut for DP works in 3S.
so does mashing d/f,d/b,d/f,d/b,d/f,d/b and buttons.

just saying

712

[media=youtube]ujnRoLwiIlg]YouTube - Arcade Longplay [082[/media]

Lol. Yeah!!!

713

You act so much like a girl it’s astonishing you don’t lactate. But I get it, you’re trying to save face in front of your internet friends. DON’T TRIP

@Vince
Fighting games have health bars and some of them even have a second meter that stores “special energy” which you can use to release “Super Attacks”.

714

Fagggggg… pick me up! (If you can)

715

Oh word? Sick shit. Just let me know whenever you do go so I drop by.

716

Chaaaan!! Will do!

717

lenin, shut up fa.ggot

im referencing that geezers that try to shoot down sf4 all the time. one of the bullet points on the power point everyone seems to have is that it has shortcut inputs.

but they’re in 3S afaik they’re in cvs2

its just that they’re alot more useful in sf4.

718

Short cuts in CvS2?

I find the inputs harder in there…

719

Hey Vince.

alt 0255 lets you do this:

you are a faggota

damn didn’t work!

GO ON AIM VINCE

720

I don’t know anyone that I play with that actually even uses short cut inputs. I actually find them more annoying to work with in a combo than anything.

LENIN DO YOU USE SHORT CUTS? TELL ME IT AIN’T SO. WINNERS DON’T USE SHORT CUT METHODS ( except you stoner ).

Secret Stealth Ninja Edit: Lenin on AIM? Wowowow, must take advantage with a plethora of kitty cat pictures.