Don's Arcade aka Astro City: Torrance/Carson Fridays 8pm-3am

[Ni8wing]

For me, arcade vs at home in my underwear, I’d vote for what the arcade environment brought: A crowd of people that you can just hang out with even after you’re finished playing the game, done for the night, met your weekly budget of quarters and tokens. These stream events, Don’s gatherings, tournaments? That’s the environment I had enjoyed a few years back, I can’t get that when I want to play any fighter at home, all I’m left with is my beer fart abused chair.

It’s a different topic on the arcade environment versus talking about the business of running an arcade but you got a point here.

Staying at home and playing Capcom fighting games suck. So boring. I would even take it further that in a console gathering if there are too many set ups, it’s not as fun as well. It’s always good to have a crowd and a line around one set up. Not just for hanging out and talking, which is cool also, but if you have a lot of set ups and everyone is playing then you get a lot of poor quality matches all over. Not only that people are wasting energy on these poor quality matches and they burn out faster.

The beauty of having arcade rules and waiting in line is that, it puts more pressure on the players to perform well on each match. And if they lose and get back in line they get to rest. In this system you can put more energy on each of your matches while not getting burnt out because of the waiting period.

This is how it was for me in the 3S days when I went to Camelot every Friday after Southern Hills closed down. There was always a crowd of people waiting around the 3S machine. When it was my turn to play, I put everything into the match. If I lost it was ok because I got to rest because the match was so intense. When I got back up I could play hard again and then I would win and get on a role haha.

But the point is the whole idea of playing and waiting was cool because it gave you a good pacing. You would be at the arcade the whole night without feeling burnt out.

Another major reason of one match only (Arcade Rules) with few set ups is that people get to play more players. It’s better to win with 10 people in the rotation then 2 people in the rotation. I don’t like it when people hide behind their own set up and get in their own comfort zone. When I had 4 SSF4 set ups that happened a lot. And in my mind I always felt that there was something wrong here lol. But hey it’s ok because now I have an opportunity to really enforce it with MVC3.

[Symbolic]

Just give me the game and I’ll tell people you’re better than me at 3rd Strike.

[kainzero]

Good point.

This may not help that much but arcade gamers may have to start considering to now pay $.50 per game for the arcades left to make some profit. Like you said one time the inflation and $.25 per game just doesn’t cut it anymore.

Of course they would have to accept it because once it’s $.50 and they don’t go then it would be worst.

I could be wrong but when it comes to the competitive fighting game community, I always feel that they rather play in an arcade rather then home. I mean I believe that there is still a solid demand for it. Players who like fighting games still need a place to go to. Look at how many players get sad when an arcade goes out of business. If you put all the good fighting games in one place and put them in Japanese arcade cabinets (Preferably Astro City cabinets) then I think it would be ok. You would have to make the place super small though but for me the grittier the better.

But as you said the bottom line is the number and making those numbers are hard with just $.25 a game these days. I think it would help if it was $.50 a game.

Couple of things…

-Can the competitive community be relied upon to prop up an arcade financially?
In my opinion, no. Competitive players are still a minority, are cheapskates, and unreliable. Most competitive players in the US are students who don’t have jobs, some don’t even have cars, and there still aren’t enough of them.
This matters, because as much as the competitive community loves arcades, the greater gaming community does not.
-How important is price?
For casual players, it’s very important. They will balk at 50 cents.
For more hardcore players, I really don’t think it matters as long as the competition is there. Sure, they’ll also complain about 50 cents, but send them to Japan and they’ll gladly feed 100 yen per game (which is more than a dollar) to play against Japan’s competition.
There’s also a trade off. If Arcade A has SSF4AE at 1 dollar and Arcade B has SSF4AE at 25 cents, most players will go to Arcade B because a cheaper price also means more competition. It also depends how far Arcade A and Arcade B are. If Arcade B is in Palm Springs and Arcade A is in Anaheim, I think they’d both get about the same crowd.
In addition, you have to toss in console in there as well. This is why AI died, because they gambled on SF4 and it’s huge cab/board cost, and then they ate it when SSF4 came out. Instead of putting up with an arcade and it’s funky controls, I can invite some friends and we can scrap it out at my house. The cost of the console is negligible as most people play other games on them.

[Ni8wing]

Couple of things…

-Can the competitive community be relied upon to prop up an arcade financially?
In my opinion, no. Competitive players are still a minority, are cheapskates, and unreliable. Most competitive players in the US are students who don’t have jobs, some don’t even have cars, and there still aren’t enough of them.
This matters, because as much as the competitive community loves arcades, the greater gaming community does not.
-How important is price?
For casual players, it’s very important. They will balk at 50 cents.
For more hardcore players, I really don’t think it matters as long as the competition is there. Sure, they’ll also complain about 50 cents, but send them to Japan and they’ll gladly feed 100 yen per game (which is more than a dollar) to play against Japan’s competition.
There’s also a trade off. If Arcade A has SSF4AE at 1 dollar and Arcade B has SSF4AE at 25 cents, most players will go to Arcade B because a cheaper price also means more competition. It also depends how far Arcade A and Arcade B are. If Arcade B is in Palm Springs and Arcade A is in Anaheim, I think they’d both get about the same crowd.
In addition, you have to toss in console in there as well. This is why AI died, because they gambled on SF4 and it’s huge cab/board cost, and then they ate it when SSF4 came out. Instead of putting up with an arcade and it’s funky controls, I can invite some friends and we can scrap it out at my house. The cost of the console is negligible as most people play other games on them.

Agree with everything you say.

But I have all these machines and all these boards. I collect them for fun but it would be nice to one day (a long shot here) to have an arcade that caters to fighting game players.

I knew arcades are dead for the most part but it took me a long time to accept it. (Still wishfully thinking that they’ll do good).

The fighting game scene now is a young man’s game and what I mean by that the only games that people care about now are on the new consoles. Specifically games like SSF4 and MVC3. If people still played ST, A3, 3S, CVS2, Vampire, and MVC2 in the arcades today then arcades with these games would make money. They call these games classics but they’re not really all world classics like a game of chess or pool where different generations constantly play these games.

You play other videos games but for the most part, besides the early NES and SNES games, I’ve been only interested in fighting games. So I think an arcade with mostly fighting games would have broad appeal to make enough money. If, however, competitive fighting game players made up a lot of people who played video games then arcades would make a lot of money. If there was a crowd for each game mentioned then they’d be playing these games like slot machines.

Even though I once said that the Street Fighter franchise is the male equivalent of the Hello Kitty franchise, it’s no where near that because many girls from many generations keep buying Hello Kitty. People only played SF2 and then stopped at ST. Played Alpha a little and didn’t play 3S. And now play SF4 like crazy. All this ST love now is only revisionist history. And even now people don’t play it.

So what I learned is that it’s over lol. But it’s really no one fault because the generation that played these game got old and had more important things to do. Hell I don’t play anymore myself. They key is to get the younger generation to play these games and continue the tradition. But that won’t happen.

[Ni8wing]

So we shall have a gathering tomorrow. Anyone new who hasn’t been here and wants to join us please PM or text me at 310 344 9367.

Hope to see you tomorrow.

[SecretCharacter]

Hey everyone, your favorite Gen player here!

Just wanted to let everyone know that I have gatherings every Thursday (check out the Dominion thread) and tonight we are going to have a mini MVC3 tourney. $3 entry winner take all. It’s gonna be mainly for fun and to just get a little tourney style practice. Tourny will start between 9:30-10.

The gatherings start at 7. We do a bible study till 8 then we break off and play games. Your welcome to come at any time.

Hope you can make it!

[Ni8wing]

Hey everyone, your favorite Gen player here!

Just wanted to let everyone know that I have gatherings every Thursday (check out the Dominion thread) and tonight we are going to have a mini MVC3 tourney. $3 entry winner take all. It’s gonna be mainly for fun and to just get a little tourney style practice. Tourny will start between 9:30-10.

The gatherings start at 7. We do a bible study till 8 then we break off and play games. Your welcome to come at any time.

Hope you can make it!

If you can everyone who goes to my place go here and support Jordon’s scene.

[SecretCharacter]

If you can everyone who goes to my place go here and support Jordon’s scene.

Thanks Don!

If anybody can bring setups, it would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers!

[kainzero]

I knew arcades are dead for the most part but it took me a long time to accept it. (Still wishfully thinking that they’ll do good).

The fighting game scene now is a young man’s game and what I mean by that the only games that people care about now are on the new consoles. Specifically games like SSF4 and MVC3. If people still played ST, A3, 3S, CVS2, Vampire, and MVC2 in the arcades today then arcades with these games would make money. They call these games classics but they’re not really all world classics like a game of chess or pool where different generations constantly play these games.

You play other videos games but for the most part, besides the early NES and SNES games, I’ve been only interested in fighting games. So I think an arcade with mostly fighting games would have broad appeal to make enough money. If, however, competitive fighting game players made up a lot of people who played video games then arcades would make a lot of money. If there was a crowd for each game mentioned then they’d be playing these games like slot machines.

Even though I once said that the Street Fighter franchise is the male equivalent of the Hello Kitty franchise, it’s no where near that because many girls from many generations keep buying Hello Kitty. People only played SF2 and then stopped at ST. Played Alpha a little and didn’t play 3S. And now play SF4 like crazy. All this ST love now is only revisionist history. And even now people don’t play it.

So what I learned is that it’s over lol. But it’s really no one fault because the generation that played these game got old and had more important things to do. Hell I don’t play anymore myself. They key is to get the younger generation to play these games and continue the tradition. But that won’t happen.

i dunno, i don’t think the idea of arcades is necessarily dead yet, but they do need a new business model, a new way to monetize, and it may be beyond the scope of just opening an arcade.

the fact is, there are too many fighting games for the amount of people who play. fighting games are only fun if the people are there, and there aren’t enough players to go around for all of them. even japan, you wanna play 3s, you still have to find the arcade where people are going and go at the right time.

that’s just the hardcore people, who can barely sustain a modern arcade if at all.

the casual people, the ones who play all sorts of games, the ones who have the dollar signs… they can’t even see the depth in a fighting game. we all lol at them, the ones who say 3d fighters are button mashers, and 2d fighters are projectile spam. but only by taking their money can arcades hope to survive.

but converting them to hardcore is not easy. if it is, we’d have a robust scene. instead, even hardcore gamers bicker about the same issues, you’ll have sf4 players making fun of sf2 and vice versa, how the heck can we hope to attract casual gamers?

technology-wise, there are issues. not just the suicide battery and legacy compatibility, but videogames have always been about pushing the technological limit and that’s who the majority of fans are made of. we can’t change that mindset, no matter what we do. i can tell you that chess has no technology except a clock, and say that videogame fans are like chess players who will only play if jesus was the carpenter for the chess pieces because they want good graphics… but people’s minds are set.

i’m sure there’s a solution out there, beyond the scope of what four dudes can do on a public messageboard. and i think that for arcades to succeed they have to shed their grungy image, both business wise and player wise. after all, hiphop did not hit mainstream until they stopped freestyling and start composing to standard practices of music.

[Ni8wing]

i dunno, i don’t think the idea of arcades is necessarily dead yet, but they do need a new business model, a new way to monetize, and it may be beyond the scope of just opening an arcade.

the fact is, there are too many fighting games for the amount of people who play. fighting games are only fun if the people are there, and there aren’t enough players to go around for all of them. even japan, you wanna play 3s, you still have to find the arcade where people are going and go at the right time.

that’s just the hardcore people, who can barely sustain a modern arcade if at all.

the casual people, the ones who play all sorts of games, the ones who have the dollar signs… they can’t even see the depth in a fighting game. we all lol at them, the ones who say 3d fighters are button mashers, and 2d fighters are projectile spam. but only by taking their money can arcades hope to survive.

but converting them to hardcore is not easy. if it is, we’d have a robust scene. instead, even hardcore gamers bicker about the same issues, you’ll have sf4 players making fun of sf2 and vice versa, how the heck can we hope to attract casual gamers?

technology-wise, there are issues. not just the suicide battery and legacy compatibility, but videogames have always been about pushing the technological limit and that’s who the majority of fans are made of. we can’t change that mindset, no matter what we do. i can tell you that chess has no technology except a clock, and say that videogame fans are like chess players who will only play if jesus was the carpenter for the chess pieces because they want good graphics… but people’s minds are set.

i’m sure there’s a solution out there, beyond the scope of what four dudes can do on a public messageboard. and i think that for arcades to succeed they have to shed their grungy image, both business wise and player wise. after all, hiphop did not hit mainstream until they stopped freestyling and start composing to standard practices of music.

I agree again except on your hip hop analogy. I don’t know where you’re going with that. Just wondering. Do you know who dropped the line: “After twelve, I’m worse then a Gremlin. Feed me hip hop and I start tremblin.”

Anyway the only reason why SF2 made money in the 90’s was because you could only play the game in the arcade. Once SF2 came out for SNES, it was the beginning of the end. The Marvel Versus games were lucky because the technology for the PSX sucked so bad you couldn’t tag. So you could really only play it in the arcade.

With the machines costing so much money from Japan and on console so little, then it’s a no win situation.

Great fighting games in general are too complicated to play for casual players anyway. So it’s over. If Capcom of USA made cheap arcade machines for SF4 and MVC3 in the fighting game revival. If they made SF4 and MVC3 units for 5K each and distribute them around the world. They easily sell 1 million for each game. Capcom was really one of the few companies to do really well in the recession. With the selling of HDR, MVC2, both SF4’s, and now MVC3, that company made a shit load of money.

They could’ve revive the arcade industry in America somewhat with these two games alone but alas they didn’t.

[Ni8wing]

We shall have a gathering tonight from 7pm-3am. I’ll be going around to collect the $5 E fee so please have it ready when I ask for it.

Anyone new and is interested in going please text me at 310 344 9367 or PM me. Everyone is invited. See you tonight. Drive safely.

[kainzero]

I agree again except on your hip hop analogy. I don’t know where you’re going with that. Just wondering. Do you know who dropped the line: “After twelve, I’m worse then a Gremlin. Feed me hip hop and I start tremblin.”

just wanted to say that for hip hop to be successful it had to break out of the street-roots and actually go to work
the arcade grungyness factor is cool but it can’t be sustainably successful.

as for the arcade industry in japan and the high cost of machines, i really wonder why it’s so expensive. maybe there’s something we’re missing there.

while trying to read a japanese article of godsgarden where they swapped sf4 for tekken, i noticed that japanese actually favor tournaments with money on the line. the reason they couldn’t do in their traditional arcade tournaments was because of gambling/entertainment laws. as godsgarden is on console, they were able to secure sponsorship and offer cash prizes for the winner.

and all this time i thought they played “for the glory of the game.” i’m sure many people who followed SRK back then thought the same.

pretty interesting…

[jtrgmr]

Looks like proximity wins for me today. I’ll head to AI tomorrow, so I’ll see everyone there tonight!

Anyhow Don, think running a tourney tonight would work?

[TagYouRPregnant]

Hopefully I can make it out there tonight!
If so I’ll see yall there!

[Naked_Snake]

I’ll be there tonight, haven’t had too much time in the lab with MVC3 but will still be fun to experiment on the fly. :]

[resres]

i wanna watch the clippers w/o the fat bearded baron.

[Ni8wing]

Looks like proximity wins for me today. I’ll head to AI tomorrow, so I’ll see everyone there tonight!

Anyhow Don, think running a tourney tonight would work?

No tourney Arcade Rules will suffice. Let the cream rise to the top. So everyone must obey arcade rules. Remember people sharing is caring.

I’m gonna get more strict on Arcade Rules because I want everyone to play as much as possible but I also want people to contend with the best players in the room. We’re here to have fun but also we’re here to get better too. And to be the best you got to play the best. There’s no way around it.

If you don’t know what arcade rules are: One match only. Winners stays. Loser leaves and falls back in line. So keep your game on point and limit your margin for error.

i wanna watch the clippers w/o the fat bearded baron.

Baron got what he deserves. But the Clips need a PG to throw the ball to Blake.

That would be crazy if the Kings moved to Anaheim.

The whole fucking trading deadline was crazy. OKC just got tougher.

[SecretCharacter]

Wont be able to make it tonight. Sorry! Hopefully I’ll see you guys soon.

[Naked_Snake]

Gonna have to make a late cancel on me attending. I feel like I’m coming down with something and I don’t want to be that douche bag that gets everyone sick.

[TagYouRPregnant]

Sooooooooo sorry I couldn’t make it today! My parents left to Mexico this morning and it was raining cats and dogs since I got off work. Hopefully next week the weather wont be as horrible and I’ll be able to go!