So are you for universal healthcare or not for universal healthcare Mr. Romney? Quit flip flopping.
I treat AE Ibuki like her 3s counterpart, but frankly, aside from her gimmicks, she’s not too worthwhile to learn. Lee pointed that out when I simply refused to vortex him even when I could, which now I’m getting the feeling that you seriously need it to even win despite fundamentals with her. Still, the more I played, the more I realized that AE is 70% about the match ups (which is dumb, but whatever). I don’t know, Ibuki shares very few of her mechanics from game to game, so even if I play her hardcore in one game, it won’t translate certain skills over that may be invaluable in another game since stuff may be nonexistent. 2i Ibuki is hit-confirm driven, 3s Ibuki is bait-and-trap focused, and AE Ibuki depends on the vortex. Normal and special inputs for all 3 are radically different, and her movement options and speed vary way too much – a few of the reasons why Alex told me to avoid her in AE. Ryu really doesn’t change too, too much aside from move properties (like roundhouse being cancelable in ST). Theoretically, you can be placed in the same situations with him from game to game and still have a similar strategy to escape, pressure, or punish. Ibuki technically doesn’t because in one game tick throws are effective and conditioning with normals work (3s), and in another they aren’t as good because of weak normals, the other guy’s spd, and her walk speed (AE). In all honesty, if I started with AE first and if that were my main game, I think I would learn wayyyyy more if I played 3s on the side since a lot of her fundamentals can be established in that game and applied to great effect elsewhere. Lee had no idea how to tackle my Ibuki correctly without getting lucky because I had a lot of control over situations just by intimidating him and offsetting my pressure with irregular timings. Ibuki in 3s is like Ryu in ST and Alpha, because that was the game for her where you had to use all of her tools to freak people out, which is not 100% true in AE at all.
tl;dr: Sure, I guess I can play AE Ibuki and play it as my 2nd game. However, most of what I would be learning there would be gimmicks and game-specific links – pure and simple. AE Ibuki is the least complicated and the least flexible from situation to situation compared to her past lives, even though she’s one of the most technical characters in AE. She’s the most complete in AE, no doubt, but it’s not for the reasons why I play her in 3s or 2i at all, which is why very few to none of the OG Ibuki players even touch her now (Clanky.D, Sako, DragonGod approach her differently compared to how Aruka, Hossy, Higa, Kuroda, Tenren, Feint, and myself do/did). I honestly learn more from Rose in that game. Either way, no, I don’t think you’re “guessing” when you do those ex dps with Ryu. That’s a momentum thing, which, yeah, is a fundamental from the older games. What got me was the frequency of them despite my adaptation to punish them. They were Ume-Shoryu’s. I could tell because no fucks were given when they came out no matter what. I’ve always respected the way you play, it’s just not the most orthodox approach I’m discovering since I’m learning about 3rd Strike’s metagame.
Anyone who claims that I am running my arcade on fool’s gold is an ignorant imbecile who is out of touch and lacks an understanding on how arcade hardware functions. I inspected carefully and had many other arcade experts inspect carefully and thoroughly the legitimacy of my arcade products. I went through great lengths and spend a lot of cash to accumulate all these materials. Some of these products are from out of state like in New York and some are even from out of country like Japan.
I stand behind the authenticity of my product deeply. If this were Tsarist Russia, I would have anyone and their whole entire family stripped, head shot, and buried in a shallow grave with no coffin for claiming such falsehoods and spreading illegimate lies that I run an arcade with counterfeit products. The authorities would go to that person’s house and arrest him/her and his/her whole entire family as well as his/her whole extended family where they would be sent to Siberia following that they would have the process of their execution carried out in a swift and prompt way with no questions asked.
Dostoyevsky’s Crime and Punishment is a really good book.
Oh is it just the 3s players that play or do people play it exclusively too?
lol, your tl;dr was just as long as your original post.
As an Ibuki player myself in SF4, I can most definitely tell you that she plays absolutely nothing like her 3s counterpart. While the vortex gimmick is considered crucial to her gameplay, it gets less and less effective against higher-skilled opponents, and thus forces you to rely on her fundamentals a LOT more.
Effective Ibuki players have an extremely strong sense of fundamentals, which I why I usually recommend her only to intermediate or advanced players. Understanding and knowing how to utilize ALL of her normals and specials are absolutely key to playing her at the highest levels. Ibuki has a LOT of options, tricks, tactics, and relies a LOT on understanding and shifting the momentum of the match in order to land wins. Basically, you have to learn to rush that shit down when you’re in an advantageous position, and lame out and stick to the ground game when you’re down for the count.
Believe me when I tell you that she is definitely a high-tiered character. She really only has 3 bad matchups, and everything else is either equal or slightly at her advantage. Not to mention the fact that she has a plethora of vortex, safe-jump, ambiguous jumps, and unblockable options (and the Ibuki forums have a LOT of tech on unblockables), and you’ll begin to see that her offense is pretty damn varied. She still retains a LOT of creative and free-flowing movement, offense, and defensive options, along with extremely deadly mix-ups that lead to mediocre damage, meter build, and UKDs.
But that’s just it: Ibuki in AE is a completely different beast compared to 3s, which is a bit ironic since both really can’t be played unless you’re at a super high level and know all this crazy metagame info and billions of setups. Her 50/50 launcher setup and roundhouse option-selects don’t work in AE at all, which are pretty important for her mix-up game in 3s. Strong and Forward don’t have the same utility applications either for the neutral game, which in AE you depend on her crouching strong, crouching forward, towards roundhouse, and standing short I find. You pressure with raida in one game whereas the other lets you get away with tsumuji more frequently. You also can’t break apart your TC’s like you can in 3s, like following up ageman to create safe ground pressure that counters any jump attempts, or starting her jab > strong > short TC with strong instead. Her jab feints fail and her frame traps (with normals) can be mashed out in AE.
Closes thing you’ll get to 3s Ibuki’s gameplay in AE is by playing rose because the idea is to bait everything, pressure (Ibuki does it with Raida in 3s), and condition since Rose has subtle tools to create mix-ups despite not having an overhead, which is how Ibuki ends up playing at the highest levels in 3s. It’s a no-nonsense approach that makes her offense ridiculously safe and brutal to counter on reaction. You still have to be patient with her no matter the version, but you don’t have that instantaneous “no shits were given that day” factor that let you compete in the neutral game like a Chun or a Rose because she has to commit to her actions which take, as you said, incredibly strong fundementals in AE.
That said, I don’t dislike AE Ibuki in the least. I wish Capcom made her more complete in the old games (she was in 2i…) from the very beginning. However, her neutral game is not even remotely the same in either game, and her defensive options are almost nonexistent in 3rd Strike in contrast, which is why you MUST know her fundamentals to stand a chance to things like Makoto’s TOD bullshit or Yun’s Genei Jin garbage.
Lee plays AE exclusively. Everyone else treats the game like a different beast altogether since they play every other kind of game, like how I treat it like 3s and KOF even though that stuff doesn’t work at all. I really should get back into KOF now that I think about it…
Lee plays AE exclusively. His T. Hawk is a beast. Very difficult to beat. Everyone else is a hybrid SF4 AE/3S player. Keep in mind that most people who started here first were good at AE and now they moved on to 3S so they have a solid foundation when it comes to AE. I have my eternal classical Ryu. Karafail has a Sakura. Dan has a Fei Long. ALAX has a very strong Viper, Makoto, Guy, and Rose.
So who do you main? Please tell me it’s Cody lol. Ya come and join us if you can. We always need new blood.
Mr. 12: I just feel that you should give Ibuki in AE a shot and stubbornly stick with her. It will take an adjustment period but it will be good for you in the long run. Every time I played a new Street Fighter and went back to an old one refined the style. Yes it’s a lot of work and losing but it will expand your horizons and give you more possibilities.
She takes a lot of work to play on a competitive level no matter the game. That’s like me majoring in archeology, and going for my masters in that, and then deciding to pick up animation and build a resume for Pixar at the same school that offers both. I like Ibuki and her dick chasing, barely legal, high school ninja (technically college) ways, but I don’t know about true character loyalty – I never had a strong affinity for her in that way aside from the fact that she’s an Asian chick. I’ll try and make the effort with her AE variant, but I swear on everything that I am going to be one cranky guy for the next few months.
You know come to think of it a Legend of Ibuki movie would make a great fucking movie. Think of it like a college girl by day and a female Ninja spy femme fatale by night. It would be great.
No. Just no. You forget too quickly about the Chun Li movie, sir. No matter how good it sounds on paper, someone’s gonna fuck it up if it becomes a movie. :nono:
Only thing good about the Van Damme movie was Bison’s one silly quote:
[media=youtube]GlhOUyy4wbs[/media]
Yeah, you have to completely change your mindset when it comes to playing Ibuki in SF4. Either that, or you find a completely different character, so that you don’t end up constantly comparing the different versions of Ibuki. I traditionally love Ryu across a variety of games, but I find him boring and completely different in AE.
Her pressure game is still pretty good, but a lot of it revolves around her strong frame trap setups, and tsumuji pressure. I actually find her normals have a variety of uses, none of which are extremely powerful, so you really have to know when and where to use them properly.
Many would argue that Ibuki was broken ass shit in 2i, alongside Sean.
But yes, she takes a lot of work to play at a competitive level, but so does everyone else. Actually she does an extremely good job destroying beginner-to-intermediate level players. Once you hit really strong players, it takes more work to land your damage, but it’s also kind of rewarding in that way.
I just like playing her because she makes the fun incredibly fun. Everybody else I play makes me feel like SF4 is boring and slow as shit.
Sean’s standing fierce in 2i was like…the perfect normal. Builds amazing meter, awesome start up, fatass active window, snappy recovery, best meaty, best whiff punish, best anti-air, best high hit, best combo starter, best damage, best stun, best…any other thing I’m forgetting that it probably rapes at.
…and then Capcom gimped it…BOOOOOO…:arazz:
I’m surprised how many people push AE despite some of the awkward bits to it. I’ve tried multiple times to get into the game, and fell out of it everytime. Karafail tells me to pick up Seth or Sakura if I want something a bit more heart-pounding, but I just can’t get comfortable with the feel of the game at all. Ibuki feels okay enough in it despite her slowness, but anytime I touch someone like Sagat or Makoto…it just doesn’t add up in my brain like it should. Though strangely, I wouldn’t consider it as clunky as KOF in areas. KOF a lot of the time feels like a chore with rules far too linear than they should be, in comparison to AE which feels like ceaseless attrition with wonky payoffs.
I main Cody in AE. 
Thinking and reflecting I conclude that the SF4 08-09 bubble has burst and we are returning back to the dark ages but only worst since the safety net of the arcades of the last decade are diminishing. No new game will bring it back not in a while hence paving the way for SF5. If there will ever be a SF5. Take your time Capcom and make it revolutionary.
I’m not sure if the bubble has quite burst. There’s still quite a high number of entrants showing up at majors, and Evo has literally doubled its attendance in one year. AE still remains the most popular played game at the majority of tournaments.
But I do think that it will come to a head, and when it does, I hope the community will begin pushing other games into the spotlight to take AE’s spot as its popularity wanes. Of course, AE might just end up becoming one of the “classic” SF within a few years time, but it really depends on how passionate the core community is.
In other news, ST will never die. Bwahahaha.
You’re right SF will never completely die. But the big popular waves come in phases and then they crash. It comes back but we don’t know when they come back. Usually when a new SF comes out lol. I know obvious.
Notable SF waves: Golden Arcade Age of SF2 which peaked at CE. The mini wave of Alpha 2-Alpha 3. The crazy underground 3S scene at FFA. And of course SF4 which brought everything back full circle. Oddly ST mostly was DOA in the states.
Speaking of waves: the little known Capcom project SF3: Red Wave which is suppose to be after 3S and suppose to be released sometime in 2001-2002 was canned by Capcom due to the series not being popular. But imagine if this was released. It would probably be one of the most balanced fighting games ever. I honestly believe with the SF3 series Capcom only began hitting it’s stride with 3S. Although the artwork was fabulous in the first two the gameplay was sluggish. The parry system I admit was very clunky. 3S finally had gravity and smoothness to the game engine. I’d definately feel that 3S would’ve been super duper amazing if it had one or two more upgrades. Remember SF2 had five upgrades. But what we have now in 3S is still amazing so maybe I’m getting too greedy. But SF3 didn’t start getting fun till 3S.
This is how the video game industry works though. We ride the waves, and when it crashes, we go find a new one. It’s happened with the adventure genre, arcades, PC communities, etc etc. What’s important is that if you truly love your game, that you continue to show up and support it. The crash is always going to come, but it takes very dedicated, motivations, and ORGANIZED, individuals to keep your scene relevant to any new changes. I hear on the grapevine that the ToL has sort of given hope to all of these dedicated and hardcore communities. That your small, tiny, hardcore group of players, can work hard and get your game back on the main stage as long as you’re willing to work for it.
3s is still extremely popular, but only in small circles located throughout the country. Imagine what would happen if 3s community leaders stepped up their game, started working together, and start consistently putting out tournaments at majors all across the country? It’d be amazing.
ST was primarily played by hardcore players and continues to be like this in the States. Quite the opposite has happened in Japan. Although ST still isn’t the most popular game there, they’ve consistently had a cycle of talented players come and go, with new players and intermediate players stepping up to fill their shoes.
Such a shame 3s didn’t release to critical acclaim and popularity. It really came into its own YEARS after its release, but that’s not a very good business statistic to convince Capcom to put out another 3s revision. Now the very nature of Capcom fighting games has changed to better ease the learning curve and get casual players into their games.
I don’t mind that 3S didn’t have mainstream appeal now or at the time of release. IMO it’s not suppose to. It’s like my movie analogy. There’s the blockbuster movie and there’s the art movie. 3S like an art film is more demanding of the viewer/player to be truly appreciated. I’m just grateful that it actually got figured out by a group of people. That’s all you can ask for. The “success” of 3S as we know it was all by luck and chance. It’s a high level game that shouldn’t be appreciate by everyone but only by a few. Yes it’s sounds snobbish and elitist but that’s how some works of “art” work. 3S took SF gameplay to a “new dimension”. And I’m thankful that a few of us actually could reach this “dimension”. Yes I know it sound pretensious lol. Geez it’s only a video game:p