Ah, I see. Yeah, even back in Vanilla, I would raw MS for certain punishes. Sometime it worked, sometimes it didn’t (when it didn’t, I was thinking WTF). I had no idea it was because they were too high in the air. Well, the more I know can only help.
Damn guess I have to find something else. Thanks for testing that for me. Hmmm back to the lab again as soon as work is done.
Please, please, just call me Z
Stages have different lengths? Orly??
I thought it was but after testing them out, I guess I thought wrong. 
Oopsy daisy
Is it possible to dash under, web throw towards the corner after a web zip OTG with dante assist (in the corner)? Get can’t it to work…
Would you be able to use an :l: Spider Sting/Bite in order to cross under? I’ve tried it with my team’s assist options, but they don’t last nearly long enough for me to dash in and get a cross under spider-sting. Dante’s Jam Session lasts for a decent amount of time, so I would imagine that it would work, I could be wrong though.
I was using spider sting/bite before the air series, otg, because that’s the combo I did in vanilla and was most confortable with, so that didn’t occur to me.
Guess there’s no way but learn this new tech…damn I’ve been avoiding dash unders and stuff to switch sides like the plague lol.
Thanks…I’ll give it a try.
so I’m trying out a new idea for the hell of it. Very [S]impractical[/S] PLAUSIBLE but I wanted to see how much damage I could get using only kara stings and Doom’s missiles before popping super finisher of choice. Haven’t successfully executed all the way through yet but the layout is looking like this.
With Spidey in the corner:
:l: web throw kara sting/bite :l: web throw kara sting/bite call missiles :l: web throw kara sting/bite :h: web throw kara sting/bite THC
alternatives would be omit the last kara sting for Crawler Assault, :l: web throw into MS, or another :l: web throw into dash up THC
The more I look at these two clips that I am about to upload the more and more I can see this as a finisher. The combos that I’m uploading aren’t all that impractical. You may changes a few things here or there but if someone Spidey was to be played at max potential and he had Doom’s missiles backing him you would be seeing a Spencer like Spidey in all honesty. I was just fucking around so I used THC’s but like I said you could easily substitute your finisher for less meter. Also going off the rest of the cast especially the characters with the long ass combos, the opponent won’t flip out of any of this since they are all specials and Doom’s missiles are multihits. HMMMMMM
i’m interested because missiles are my go to assist, but i won’t have the time for a while to sit down and lab up all these cross unders. i’m still inconsistent with the combo i’m doing
What combo are you trying to do?
crLMH Lwebswing jMMS sH L web throw, get there otg zip jS sM crH , L webswing jMMS sH L spider sting/bite, call missiles, crHS jMHS, as missiles hit sH S jc M webthrow, max spider. essentially, this is the combo you were trying to teach me
if i don’t need to, i’ll usually skip the L webswing after the otg zip and go straight to a sMH H spidersting
this combo i feel is strong because it sets up a possible uwt followup after missiles hit. obviously gotta predict if they’ll see it coming or not.
also, guaranteed corner carry before the missiles hit.
At what part are you having difficulty with? That’s still my go to bnb except for the last part where I now do the zip cross up. If you’re trying to do it online then you’re really going to have problems with it. The only problems I usually encounter is that there are times that the missiles are just a tiny bit late which makes them miss the OTG and that when I’m calling Doom near the corner in the combo, the cross up part acts up a bit. Other than that, I find it less strict than a long combo to zip assist finisher.
Warning: This is going to be long and I know that some of the following stuff belongs in the strategy thread, but I want to post it here because it explains why I feel Spidey players should be working more on combo tech off Spider Stings)
My current BnBs, using Spidey/Doom (Missles)/Arthur (Daggers) (thanks for Raoh, Johnypol and Z since this totally derived from all the tech they’ve posted):
Variation 1 (works as long as Doom isn’t right beside the corner when he’s called):
(optional start with Arthur assist call+ web zip> j.H> c.L> c.H) XX
H Spider Sting> dash> c.M> s.H> L Webthrow (M required for certain characters/situations)> ground dash> air dash> web zip> j.S> s.M> c.H> L Web Swing> M,M, S (+Call Doom missiles)> stand S (double tapped for consistency> j.MMHS> land (guaranteed corner)> jump webzip> j.S (side switch)> H Webthrow> Crawler Assault> DHC Doom Sphere Flame (Averages 995K, roughly half a meter -ve).
Variation 2 (required if Doom is called near the corner. The angle that the missiles hit doesn’t seem to allow web zip S to side switch):
(optional start with Arthur assist call+ web zip> j.H> c.L> c.H) XX
H Spider Sting> dash> c.M> s.H> L Webthrow (M required for certain characters/situations)> ground dash> air dash> web zip> j.S> s.M> c.H> L Web Swing> M,M, S (+Call Doom missiles)> stand S (double tapped for consistency> j.MMHS> land (guaranteed corner)> c.H (as missiles hit) XX L Spider Sting XX Crawler Assault> DHC Doom Sphere Flame (Averages 950K, roughly half a meter -ve).
2 reasons why I currently prefer these BnBs over the other BnB’s posted so far :
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It doesn’t maximise HSD. This allows me to get in with an Arthur assist call and not worry about the combo dropping midway because the extra hits created extra HSD which suddenly causes the combo to drop.
-
It allows me to start the combo with H Spider Sting, which I still feel is Spideys best neutral tool. Again I’ll give 2 reasons why I feel this way:
(i) High priority + huge hitbox + groundbounce+ Safe (with zip cancel)+ Other characters can’t block during airdash
If you add the above factors together, I think its quite apparent that smart, liberal use of Spider Sting (e.g, just doing it whenever you think the opponent is going to air dash in) is the easiest way for Spidey to land a hit. Currently, I feel that most players don’t want to start combos with Spider Sting because Spider Sting combos don’t maximise damage (since they use the ground bounce so early). But I feel that this would be akin to Wolverine player not wanting to start combos with Dive Kick because Dive Kick uses the ground bounce early- it’s not a decision that makes sense because it doesn’t matter how much damage you do if you can’t land a hit
(ii) H Spider Sting leaves Spidey in a position that makes XX Webzip+ assist call very dominant
I use H Spider Sting (as opposed to L/M Spider Sting) because it leaves Spidey at the height which is just above normal jump height and just below super jump height. At this height, there’s very little that players can do to land a solid hit on you… and they don’t have much of a window anyway because you’re going to webzip after that. [S]The screen positioning also means that they can’t see any assist being called and have to guess that you’re calling one.[/S]
When you webzip at this height, you end up in 3 likely possible situations:
(i) You webzip H above the opponents head. There’s a good chance that you end up behind the opponent while your assist is still in front. Although this isn’t a fifty/fifty mix up, its still a very favourable position because your opponent has to block your assist and your next mix up.
(ii) You webzip H onto the opponent. This is still a good position- you webzip in with a jump attack while your assist attacks. Not much they can do but block. This pushes them towards the corner, which allows Spidey to use his strongest mix up tool- cornered standing webzip
(iii) They jump above the webzip and attempt to punish your zipping animation with a high priority move (like Wolvie Dive Kick).
This is a bad situation, but its only really happens if you did a naked Spider Sting from half screen away (which I do alot against characters like Magneto, cause they get bopped and killed if they decided to air dash at that moment, and can’t really punish you if they didnt) and the opponent has a high priority dive kick type move. The main mitigating factor is that Spidey can still block while webzipping down, so smart blocking will still leave you safe in this situation.
Spider Sting in block strings
In all, the above all mean that H Spider StingXX Webzip + call assist is something like Felicia doing delta kick while calling an assist while she comes down. It’s a great way to get in after being advanced guarded that puts you back in frame advantage (except that you just did it off an uppercut that leads to OHKOs).
Some players might respond with the above with “Yeah, Spider Sting is indeed a great tool. But this just means you should use Spider Sting as an anti-air and use webthrow/web swing normally during combo attempts”. I would disagree because so many hits in this game are landed in counter hit/frame trap situations that you don’t really have the time to react to. (E.g., if you do c.L (wait)> c.H and the opponent blocks the c.L but mistimes his push block and gets hit by the c.H, you don’t really have time to react to him getting hit and decide to webswing). On top of that, H Spider Sting in general is a lot safer when pushblocked- Dormammu, for example, can push block a string that ends with L Webswing and get a free Chaotic Flame. That doesn’t work against H Spider Sting XX Zip because H Spider Sting ends up so high that the CF misses and Spidey can block when he webzips down.
So yeah that was a pretty long essay. I know most people aren’t going to agree with me and that’s fine. I’m not theory fighting and its actually worked a lot of me, but I’d be glad to hear why Spideys think its still a bad idea and why they’d rather start their combos with web throw/webswing. Peace.
Edited: Struck out the line on H Spider StingXX Web zip being high enough to hide assist calls, because its not true. I had the idea of using air H web ball XX Webzip to hide assist calls in my head while typing this post, so I got confused. H Spider StingXX Web zip is too low to hide assist calls… it’s still really safe though.
You’re right there needs to be an importance on spider sting combos but personally I believe that should be more for anti airs. That’s my opinion. :l: spider sting is a better anti air than :h: due to the latter’s longer start up, longer grounded period, and massive recovery even with the zip cancel. As for block strings :h: is good but you are leaving the opponent free to move since there is no real forward movement on it to keep the pressure up. Also in most cases the web zip itself wont reach to touch the opponent unless canceled low. The reason :l: sting is used more in block combos is because of spider bite. :h: spider sting/bite doesn’t hit low enough for the overhead like :l: which is vital on a crouching opponent. Also zip canceled :l: spider sting is a faster hi/lo mixup than :h: spider sting. In any case, a strong rule to have is ‘if they can punish don’t do it’. Meaning if your opponent seems knowledgeable in his shit based on how he’s playing then go for safer options. Another tip is to give yourself a window to break them open. If you haven’t got them open within a few attempts cover yourself and fall back so you don’t get predictable and end up hurting aka choose your battles. Good shit all the same but if you’ve already gotten the hit confirm then you should be going into other combos.
That’s some pretty good insight on :h: sting, Acid. Your post had me thinking about it but I think it’s going to boil down on play style. I think you like rushing down a lot and felt that you had to find ways of keeping the rush down pressure while keeping your Spidey safe and this may have been the result of your testing and experience. Push blocks may have given you issues so had to do some stuff to work around it. Personally, I like zoning with air bzbs (ball-zip-balls) and web throws while keeping mobile around the screen fishing for hits which is why I made a vid on web throws so others can have an idea of how to take advantage of a raw catch.
I agree with Z though on the :l: sting as a better block string provided you have assists to kill the push block, as well as hit confirming combos. I like this idea though because I can add it to my zoning shenanigans.
As for the HSD on the combos, it’s a weird thing. I can do my Spidey+Doom bnb even with Hawkeye assist but Greyhound must hit while or before I’m doing the ground sting combo, otherwise, they’d flip somewhere. (I’d have to check this out again)
You’re absolutely right about my playstyle, but I wonder if the effectiveness of H Sting in neutral might be more of a match up thing. Currently I have a fairly favourable win rate against one of our top players who runs point Magneto but worse win rates against not-so top players who run other characters (especially point Wolverine).
[S]Now that I’ve identified a big part of why random H stings work (non-visible assist calls protecting my webzip approach on whiff/block),[/S] I’m going to try doing jump H web ball> webzip more in other match ups, since H web ball pushes Spideyman up really high and also hides assist calls very well.
Okay now I’m solidly in OT territory so I’ll just stop here =\
Edited: See above post.
I don’t feel you have to change anything as you can pull off pretty good damage with your combos. If anything, you could polish your play style to suit more match ups that you’re having problems with and share what changes or improvements you made because some other Spidey user probably has the same play style. This may also help others who want to adjust or learn.
Back to combos, any ideas on TAC to Spidey combos? The only one I know is the one on the UMVC3 book but that one isn’t really easy to perform.
Great post Acidic. We focus too much on combos and there’s very little info on matchups and general gameplan…I for one almost never land those optimized combos because you almost never land a hit where assists are avaiable or the opponent is grounded, etc. I personally prefer Spider Sting L, though at times the bite would wiff =/ I’ll give it a try with H Spider Sting or maybe even M Spider Sting.
Can you share what that is? I’ve been doing the braindead sj.M, M, H, H Web Swing, MMHS lol.
eh it’s not terribly difficult but i’ve just had some problems with it
wesker sized characters can flip out before the crH in the zip otg, jS, sM crH if you hit the sM too early
zero sized characters can flip out before the jS in the second L webswing, jMMS if you hit the sMcrH too early, or cancel crH into L webswing too early
i’ve figured out a decent timing for calling doom missiles (call before crH… lol) but if you do spider sting into bite too slow, it actually deteriorates the hitstun more because time deteriorates hitstun and they pop out after the jH in the finishing crH S jMHS