Does hype do more harm than good for games

Broryuken · May 31, 2012, 2:20am

Meant to do well in button mash fest?
because unless ur Gary, Lee, or Aaron I’m not too scared… i would do a gauntlet of 3s/mvc3

Tie breaker is heads 3s tails mvc

xes · May 31, 2012, 2:23am

Stunning refutation!

Seriously, this is one of the less subjective things in this discussion. If you can show me how any of the games have more complex systems than the ones following them on that list, I’ll be happy to admit I’m wrong.

Just settle the whole thing that way, you each get one call, I’ll flip. We can have some real resolution!

thats_mind_games · May 31, 2012, 2:29am

MVC2’s decision trees at high level are more complex than MVC3’s decision trees at high level.

xes · May 31, 2012, 2:43am

That’s not system complexity, though.

In any match you have more choices to make in MvC3 than in MvC2.

That’s kind of what I was trying to say with the thing about people confusing complexity with depth. MvC2 has (or I think it has) more depth, because even though you have fewer choices, there are a few reasons that those choices are more meaningful and take more consideration (notably that XF works as a get out of jail free card on both offense and defense, making committing to a move less risky).

To take the the silly extension that might prove the point, H&H is an order of magnitude more complex than ‘normal’ MvC3 is, but it’s an even shallower game.

thats_mind_games · May 31, 2012, 2:47am

ok cool we agree

Sho_Nuff · May 31, 2012, 2:49am

adjusts glasses

I’ll play with you.

Broryuken · May 31, 2012, 3:09am

You win. I dont even want to play/argue anymore

NickRocks · May 31, 2012, 6:56am

lol no

sent/cap vs mag/psy

NickRocks · May 31, 2012, 6:58am

there’s refly in mvc3? :o

xes · May 31, 2012, 7:04am

The following would have been a much better response:

vivaldi290 · May 31, 2012, 7:24am

MVC3 plays more like an old school game than SFIV does. Everybody can put you in really bad situations and you must deal with tight block strings and throw games that you actually must sit through. The pressure isn’t filled with gaps that are easy to reverse and you don’t need to rid someone of their meter to meaty them or create real pressure like the older games. The game doesn’t flood you with options to get out of shit like SFIV does.

In our local scene all the MVC2 players just decided to stop playing a long time ago. Eric V would try to get people to come out but not even enough people would come for 5 man tourneys. The MD MVC2 players were too spread out and at that point were most likely just moving on to other stuff in their lives. MVC2 players basically just didn’t wanna come out to shit. You must not know the area very well if you think people don’t play Guilty Gear. Still a solid amount of GG players and they would come regularly to UMBC and what not. Nobody plays Vampire Savior that I know of except for like Magman and a few other people…but Darkstalkers is very backseat in popularity compared to other games.

Marvel 3 does get compared often to the older games all the time though. In older fighting games you didn’t have 90 year ground bounces, hard knockdowns and near 270 to 360 degree moves that cause those properties. Nor did you have XF or any of that. Despite that though it’s a game where all the characters are made to be oppressive and be able to lock you down for not using optimal spacing like the older games.

Skullgirls is similar except the assist calls are done much better like in MVC2 and the game isn’t riddled with 90 year hit confirm states for one of each of the character’s moves. Plus no XF. With no hard attack/throw OS and 6 normals for every character the footsies are much better and arguably better than they are in MVC2.

I could type out a huge response to this but I don’t really want to. DJ I respect you as an OG player and you obviously know your stuff but you give the game unfair hate on these forums, atleast compared to how you view MvC3.

Lord_Raptor · May 31, 2012, 7:26am

I fucking wish

NickRocks · May 31, 2012, 7:28am

honestly Im over the control scheme thing in mvc3, especially once I found the layout that imitated mvc2 and worked for me. however, to say it’s more complex when there are things present in mvc2 that arent in mvc3 seems…well, wrong. unfly refly was a huge deal for sent and iron man, and super jump cancels was a huge deal for magneto and storm. those are both not present in mvc3.

marvel 3 is an alright game, but it should seriously stop being compared to 2. its in a completely different zone

xes · May 31, 2012, 8:10am

It’s not a comparative quality thing though, if anything I’m saying MvC3 is worse for the increased system complexity.

The little things MvC2 has that MvC3 doesn’t (noting that 3 does have a lot of jump cancelling if not SJ cancelling) aren’t as significant as the Xfactor or TAC are. Refly is something that a few characters have that effects how those characters play. Either XF or TAC’s add an entire new decision to every character in a myriad of situations. Problem is that they also fuck everything up ><

The idea I’m trying to punch in the face is the idea that games are becoming less complex and more linear (which I took to be the meaning of that jpg way up there), because they’ve become consistently more complex in any of the lines of descent

Edit: And to bring it back home, I think the excess of stuff thrown in actually gets in the way of hype. If people don’t know what just happened or why, or it seems totally arbitrary, they’re way less likely to get excited.

HuStLeMaN17 · May 31, 2012, 8:52am

^^ The problem with umvc3 compared to marvel 2 is that anyone can become a really good player fairly easily in umvc3 ( due to many lame faXtors, stupid game mechanics that make just about every character really, really good/boring etc, etc )

Unlike mvc2 which actually took some real skill - time and effort - if you wanted to climb the charts and become a great player. - Those days are sadly gone, along with the hype stream monsters and other players had because people use to respect how hard it was to pull off some of the things that were done in that game.

Branh0913 · May 31, 2012, 9:29am

Misconception. People think you have to be Yipes to play mvc2. Mvc2 started out really scrubby. Back in the early days I’ve seek people get 40 game win streaks running hulk/colossus/juggernaut instant thc kill. Probably the lowest execution shit to do in any game. There are so many low tier gimmicks and bulmshit tk fight through. It’s just that anyone still playing mvc2 are running top tiers. Buts let’s nit get it twisted, mvc2 hasn’t always been a hard game to play.

Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using Tapatalk 2

Sho_Nuff · May 31, 2012, 9:35am

And people said the same thing about MVC2 when it first came out.

And every character is not really good. At all. Yes, more characters are viable than in MVC2, but you can’t just pick some characters and expect to run wild.

Shit’ll get you killed, and quick.

aznpikachu215 · May 31, 2012, 12:38pm

I had people saying that with the way MvC3 system works, it makes MvC2 look balanced.

xes · May 31, 2012, 1:21pm

I’m still baffled how you guys got from the fairly specific point I was making to ‘MvC2 or MvC3, which is better, round 30498’

Stumblebee · May 31, 2012, 1:47pm

I just want to say that I started playing Super Turbo a few weeks ago…

In that few weeks, I’ve gotten more tips and help from people who play ST than my 3 years of SF4 playing.

It’s not the hype, the flash, the package, or even the quality of the game.

The community decides how much they want to harm/help the game.