Explain what you actually said. For example, why are Capcom game shallow?
Like any sort of example at all, which you supplied none of.
Wow, so you saw a few combo videos and immediately decided the game was good without playing it? You’re a genius, and reasonable.
Your argument is based on nothing. Take a look at KOF 2k3 when it first came out, then look at how it’s played now. THE EXACT SAME TACTICS AND CHARACTERS ARE STILL WINNING. Now take a look at the evolution of CvS2. The usable grooves have changed several times, the tiers have changed drastically, roll cancels were discovered, etc. This shows growth, where as 2k3 has had very little of just that. It took 3 years for CvS2 to reach some sort of peak. 2k3 hit it in maybe half a year.
grrr
so catty
Greetings, everyone. First time poster, regular viewer of SRK.
Kamui: You have used the wrong comparisons. You are comparing CvS2(great game) with KOF2k3(good game)
Therefore your statements are valid in contrast to Agmaster.
What if I compare CFJ to 2k1?
98 and 2k2 are great games. However a lot of people are following the “herd mentality.” They believed they are good cos a lot of people said they are good.
Don’t get me started on the fanboys which both sides are guilty of.
Welcome to SRK.
Fair, but really if you compare CvS2 to any SNK game, as far as growth goes, very few games can match how much the game changed (For the better) over such a large window of time. For the most part the same could be said for 3s and MvC2, which were both played for years before they hit a peak.
What does CFJ have anything to do in a topic called “Does Capcom Do SNK better than SNK?” When has fighting game mastery ever been about the controls? How does a qcf+hcb motion= “depth”??? I’d like to see an SNK “master” come do a lp>lk>mp>genei jin combo effectively on the first try. Nothing but quarter circles, should be a CINCH:rolleyes: Not to hate on SNK, but if their fans all act this way, it’s easier to look down at them as a whole…
i just wanna point somethings out
any snk character will seem limited compared to the capcom renditions, no shit…lets completely ignore the fact that they come from games where they re balanced to fight their own cast in their own engines. if you put them in a game with characters more suitable with the company’s engine, your gonna have to make corrections so they can keep up, that only makes sense. so the simple answer is…they re different games, its gonna be bias.
xm vs sf ryu is different from sf2 ryu, do i say “ryu is so much better than his sf counterpart, beam super and chains, they should of “marvelized” him for 3rd strike”
also to the thread maker- svc is playmore’s garbage, its another “could of would of should of” but pre kof2k snk would of did a way better job. taking away running for example, is the lazy way to balance mobility issues between the casts IMO, playmore does half ass shit.
Well, Capcom games are not released as frequently as KOF which is yearly. Players will crowd the new games and sort of neglect the older games. Given the fact that the bulk of KOF’s popularity is here in Asia and not in the West, perhaps KOF isn’t played that deeply over there.
I can’t prove that if KOF games will get played much deeper if they are not released yearly so…
ramza34: CFJ has no relation to this thread, yes I give you that. But what I was trying to put across was that Kamui made a bad comparison. It is like fighting in a war. You used the elite of your troops to attack the weakest of your enemies and then proclaim that the opponent is weak.
Seriously, who actually uses either one of these moves as an anti-air? Power Dunk is a horrible anti-air, and Rising Tackle isn’t much better. When it comes to a good anti-air with Terry your best bet is the Power Geyser…which is still slightly lacking.
I really did not like the way Capcom did the SNK characters.
It’s A fine game, It just doesn’t feel right.
I love what SNK did with the Capcom characters, Too bad the game was garbage.
maybe thats coz you live in the us, i doubt kof’s get taken to the limit over there, not trying to be rude but kof 2k2 and 98 for example have enjoyed the same longevity that cvs2 has here in japan…
Meaning what? Don’t throw around vagueries and call them “facts”. Don’t piss on our legs and tell us it’s raining.
Ah, you raise a good point. So now we have the Power Geyser, Rising Tackle, and Power Dunk. Three anti-airs? If they were all adequate anti-airs, it’d just be redundant. There’s no reason to have so many moves that are so similar to each other.
That’s funny, because the game being garbage is what Capcom fans didn’t like about the characters.
Oh, you know. Obvious ones. That exist. Anything that apparently must exist and be obvious in order to make any sort of claim about the depth of Capcom games and SNK games without explanation. Preferably something fundamental and truthful that can’t be argued with.
Seriously, if it were true, it wouldn’t be hard to come up with facts to back it up.
I’m not talking strictly longevity. I’m refering to actual growth. KOF 98 has been played for an extremely long time, but it hasn’t actually grown as a game for years now, like ST (People still play it, but new tactics haven’t changed the way the game is played any time recently ).
Regardless though, I can’t really argue against your point, acting like the US KOF scene is good is an effort in futility.
grafsex read my mind…but I’ll play.
A; Like any sort of example at all, which you supplied none of.
Capcom games are historically shallow because they have a cap to how much you can do. Granted, my theory does not take into account ALL games by them, and 3 shows signs of breaking this mold, but Street Fighter and even the versus games have only so much you can do.
An example is block killing. If you get your opponent low and repeat safe moves that slowly tick away at their life, you can win. The technique is valid, but that’s the problem, it’s inescapable. (i know you’re going to use this bit, I can explain it better when you take it apart)
B; Wow, so you saw a few combo videos and immediately decided the game was good without playing it? You’re a genius, and reasonable.
False, I decided it was cool because I enjoy the KoF system. However, I had fallen out of practice with it and thought that I had evolved beyond the games and they were too slow for me. After watching the videos again, I saw that they still are fast, I was just no longer use to the rhythym.
C; Your argument is based on nothing. Take a look at KOF 2k3 when it first came out, then look at how it’s played now. THE EXACT SAME TACTICS AND CHARACTERS ARE STILL WINNING. Now take a look at the evolution of CvS2. The usable grooves have changed several times, the tiers have changed drastically, roll cancels were discovered, etc. This shows growth, where as 2k3 has had very little of just that. It took 3 years for CvS2 to reach some sort of peak. 2k3 hit it in maybe half a year.
I agree with you that 2003 is shallow. In fact it is the only KoF my capcom preferring coherts will play. 2k2 is too “wierd”.
D; Oh, just breathe man. You may be right, I may be right, or we may just both be wrong. It’s no big, kid.
If you have played KoF longer, and haven’t touched SF, and then you touch CvS2, you will notice a DAMN HUGE difference between Iori in KoF and Iori in CvS (1 and 2). Speed, and combo properties are different. Cause both characters are running on different engines. I do agree with Arturo though (Sabin), I like Hibiki and Kyo better in CvS2 than in KoF, though it would be really nice to see Kyo pull off his combos in CvS2 that he can in KoF (cross-up d+fierce punch comes to mind 
), and short jump combos.
JP
P.S. If the engine for KoF Eps:09 has the same feel as GG, I wonder how many people would hate on it.
I’ll respond to your points in the same order you wrote them.
A: Sorry, but hell no. No one who is that low on life is simply going to allow their enemy to continually chip at them until they die. In CvS2, depending on the groove you are using, there are quite a number of ways to get out of chip death. Zero counters, counter movement, JD, parry, roll, roll cancels, and dodge are all examples, and these are just groove specific concepts. Most character’s have moves that are efficient at beating out those safe pokes you mentioned. If you are blocking everything when you are in the range where a single blocked normal is going to kill you, you aren’t thinking properly. At least that’s my view of it.
B: The games are only as fast as the people who are playing them. It is often stated that 3rd Strike is a rather slow game, i’ll even admit that it is somewhat slow, but throw a good Makoto on screen and the pace of the game picks up quite rapidly. In Hong Kong, watching KoF being played is like watching a video entitled “RUSHDOWN FUCK YEAH!” But that doesn’t necessarily invalidate all other types of play. If it’s a good game, then all types of characters, be they rush or turtle, can be viable choices in the game. My issue with KoF is that I just dont see that, character’s that are more defensive in nature always seem to be dominated, but I could be wrong. This is just my experience.
C: I cant see why people would say that 2k2 is weird. I prefer Capcom games, yet my favorite KoF out of them is 2002 by far. I suppose that’s just your friends.
I may just interminably blow at KoF’s, but I did find most of the SNK character’s in CvS2 to be much more entertaining to play than in KoF.
A; But before SNK system bits were injected into their fighting style, you COULD do that. Anyone with a good projectile could do that in the versus games and the older street fighters.
B; All types of styles are viable in KoF. I prefer rushdown styles and switchups/crossovers. Normally I do well, but defensive characters destroy me. Unless you count grapples as offensive, but I don’t.
C; They’re lame and only play GGXX nowadays anyways.
In this thread:
- Of the people defending Capcom, most are simply saying that it’s because they prefer SF-style to KOF-style.
- Of the people defending SNK, most saying that the SNK characters were “butchered” because they don’t play like SNK or some other damn hyper-defensive shit.
Interesting.
play #R, then. Sammy stole the best from both (though made up their own systems, too) and created an awesome game.
I feel the depth comes from SNK because of the options, and the styles…
Ghostmaker - theres a lot of defensive characters that own in kof, though it depends on what you mean by defensive… do you mean stand in one spot and win, or styles?
Usually a lot of playstyles sorta blend offense and defense into one
like athena… her fireballs and crystal bit and even teleport is mostly defense used offensively. Kensou has the same thing with his fireballs… Heidern/Leona… Lucky Glauber… a lot of effective strategies may involve zoning, it just depends on how you look at it…