To HellSap, I dont really mean stand in one spot and win, because that shouldn’t exist in any game. Even O. Sagat shouldn’t ever be able to stand in one place and throw tiger shots. I guess my best example for this instance would be Whip. She seems a lot like Dhalsim to me in that if you use one of her special’s or normals at the wrong time, she gets fragged up hard. When I have Iori or Chris going psycho rushdown on me, i’m often guilty of throwing out the wrong thing and being destroyed. Seeing 5 head to head machines featuring teams of Iori/Chris/Yashiro just makes it seem like defensive character’s dont fare as well. I have seen a few good Kensou’s and Leona’s, they can zone quite well, but it just seems that when a player of equal skill comes out with an Iori or Chris, the zoners just get peaced out. I could be wrong though.
To Agmaster, the threat of the fireball and other tools like it was considerably stronger in ST and Alpha, i’ll give you that. O. Sagat would be the perfect example of the power of the fireball, but there have always been ways around it. The methods of getting out have just gotten progressively easier as time has gone on.
Normally I view grapple character’s as being offensive. Ralf, Clark, and Vice all seem to benefit from a good knowledge of rushing. My best example of defensive would probably be Whip, or other character’s who get chewed up when opponents get too close. I agree with your point that all styles are viable, but I guess my statement is that, in KoF, rushdown just seems much more viable. Please correct me if that’s incorrect, it’s only my skewed perspective of reality hehe.
Truth on Rock, CvS version would WHOOP Garou version.
As for Kyo, I’m kinda torn. CvS Kyo’s got the mixups, a much bigger move list, and the Orochinagi setups (88 Shiki: Kai into dp + MK into full powered Oro, yay) but he’s got some problems. Practically no autoguard to speak of, R.E.D. Kick is nerfed, his rolls are awful (unless you count RC), and the Mu Shiki is nowhere near the godliness it reaches in KOF 98 or 2K3.
On the other side, KOF Kyo (using 2K3) is FAST. He’s got autoguard on his stuff, can snuff fireballs with Aragamis, juggle with his hcb + K options, and has some decent pokes. His Mu Shiki has the almighty invincible flame pillar that nothing or nobody (including DMs) can penetrate, only Ash’s uber-cheap DM is a worry. But he’s also not as versatile as CvS version on mixups, and his Orochinagi blows compared to Capcom’s incarnation, especially the SDM version.
So, I like both versions of Kyo, but I slightly prefer KOF version. Besides, black leather jacket > schoolboy.
Sagat, Guile and Ryu were kings of the heap for fireball reasons, but as early as ST that was altered (O.Sagat is still really good, but Ryu can no longer win on fb/dp alone and Guile was nerfed).
As for versus games, I’m not even addressing that since it’s obviously wrong to anyone who’s played them.
are you crazy how can you say capcom do snk better than themselevs.
Its two totaly different types of games what streetfighter game plays like kof?
cvs2 is a capcom game so of course its goin be more SF style.
the answer is you like SF style and not kof, not that capcom can do better with snk own stuff lol that i find ridiculous.
I think at the end of the day. The biggest difference between SNK and Capcom games, is how you like to play. I find in SNK games I’m always urged to rush down, kamakaze it us, and be totally agressive, while in every Capcom game I’ve played (MVC2 being the exception) I always find myself turtling. So really, I find SNK caters to pitbulls, while Capcom caters to turtles. I know this is a really broad analogy, as you’ll find both in every game. It’s just my personal outlook, because I hate retarded poke fests between 3 moves i.e 3s.
I personally had to stop playing my SNK games because I simply could not find competition for them here in Miami.
Capcom, like SNK, takes a few tries to get their specific games ‘right’. You can see this with the development of Garou Densetsu into RB2, which beelzebubble will agree is the best version of the series. Marvel was considered really good when MVC2 came out. CVS only got really serious when CVS2 came out. SF3 got really competitive at 3S. SF2 is considered ‘perfect’ to some extent in its ST version. KOF 94-97 led to 98, the best version of that era. 2002 is a revisiting of that era, however, with new characters and no striker system – this is bothersome for a couple of reasons, but I will explain that some other time.
Few games are ‘right’ in just one incarnation, really. MOTW is REALLY good, and it only took one try.
I think the playstyles are different enough that you need a certain way of thinking to be able to appreciate the differences and what makes each game unique, and thus fun.
I personally love the hell out of 3S and '98 over any other fighting games. In addition to that, I loathe 2002 with passion unrivaled. I don’t see why people don’t understand why I do.
I sure as hell don’t understand why you don’t like 2k2.
That game is so full of shit to do that it’s pretty hard to dislike it, top it off with the fact it’s the most like 98 in years and I really don’t see what your problem with it is.
KOF = Work hard and you’ll make a team you love.
CVS = Pick three people you like and enjoy.
The playstyles are enjoyable on an individual by individual basis, I personally like both.
I don’t agree. Again, I don’t see any SNK game having the same amount of strategic growth as MvC2 or CvS2. The way those games were played changed dramatically over several years, where as the majority of the KOF games don’t evolve much after the first year.
You can tell simply be talking with the players that still play the games, playing them yourself, and watching recent tournaments. KOF in general hasn’t changed dramatically at all over the last few years. CvS2 and MvC2 however did, in big ways. The best example is CvS2. Before roll cancels, CvS2 was dominated by Sagat, Blanka, and N groove teams. After roll cancels were discovered (Much later), low tier characters moved to mid tier, a few mid tier characters even moved to top tier, A groove became hands down the best groove, and all of the sudden P and K grooves became more effective choices. Things like this, bugs or not, don’t happen in “Historically shallow” games.
I can’t think of an SNK game where the level of play changed so much from a new tactic that the entire game continued to evolve because of it. They have their share of fun stuff, but in most cases those abilities were found immediately and only made the game degrade (Or it changed very little, like the KOF 98 unblockable fireball bug). This isn’t to say KOF 98 is a bad game, it’s a pretty good game, I just don’t think it evolved nearly as much as SF3, MvC2, and CvS2. I think people are starting to confuse KOFs mobility options and combo system with “Depth” once again…
As far as your block damage example goes, I apologise, but that isn’t an argument at all. Block damage is hardly a problem in ANY fighting game, especially since most games have built in counters to it now(SF3 red parries, SF Alpha alpha counters, a billion sub systems in CvS2). The only extremes that make it questionable is Sakura’s CvS2 custom, which is arguable.
A few of the named games seem to tend to evolve because of accidents in programming that are discovered that dramatically change tier lists or change the way the game is played, perhaps even adding a new viable option of playstyle while keeping the older style still competitive. My example would be that Extra / Advanced actually makes a good deal of difference in '98 to the point where things like when “dash command-cancelling” was found back in the day (within a year or so before it actually propagated), Extra suddenly became a lot better and a viable option. Sacrificing running wasn’t that bad a deal anymore.
There’s a good deal of depth in a few of these games, but I would have to agree that the KIND of depth is different. There’s a very, very large amount of things and playstyles you can adopt in KOF '98 to be fairly effective. The only other game that I see has this amount of allowable flexibility in high-level play is CvS2, and I think it has something to do with the sheer amount of characters and the roster size.
On another note: I don’t like KOF2002 because the focus of the actual game itself shifted into picking characters with something disgustingly abusable and just abusing these same aspects to try to land a win. ABC teams are even more ridiculous in this area. And when it isn’t that, it’s “try your hardest to land a MAX combo ASAP”. The balance is weird, the game feels quirky and overly tight or too loose in some areas. In general, I don’t think it compares to '98 at all. I like the overall more “simple” feel of '98 that allows for more mindgames. '98 afterall is what originally defined how the three major areas of KOF would play the game (Mexican grapplers, Japanese poking and HK rushdown).
I have a few SNK game but more capcom and own or have played all capcom VS snk games and I think capcom should be left to do the compilation games. With SVC Chaos it’s slower, there’s no air guard which is essential, I mean it’s now like we’re playing Street Fighter 2 here. Because now you can get completely screwed if back into a corner because even if you try to jump they can just hold down and do hard punch and knock you back down on the ground. The only real one who can counter this tactic is Akuma (Not Shin Akuma because he’s weaker and cheaper then ever before) with his air gou-hadou. SNK has too many flaws with it’s gameplay it hasn’t really evolved much except for new characters, different color outfits, and new moves ever since it originally came it in 94. Also SNK could never be original considering it’s a blatant rip off of Street Fighter same type of projectiles (I mean down forward punch) and even the characters style of fighting and name’s example: Ryu-Ryo, same moves same name = bull shit. SNK is just street fighter with different game titles, characters, and different back stories. Street Fighter atleast has a real backstory to their characters or they just don’t make sense. I also just hate most SNK characters in general, the only good things about SNK are Joe, Andy Bogard, and Vanessa from King Of Fighters. I think Capcom should redo Chaos with better graphics, more characters (especially replacing mega man Zero, with mega man X Zero) and an online set up like Anniversary with a rematch option and telling how many people are waiting to play. I can still play Chaos but only with capcom players, i’m quite racist to those SNK bastards.
Fair enough, to each their own, I like 2002 because it takes all the characters I loved and the new ones I loved and throws them together in a system which has so many damn options. KOF 98 is a classic and the first King of Fighters game I got into seriously, so we both agree on this point, King of Fighters 98 owns.
:pleased:
Any SF game with Air Guard did not allow you to airblock normals. The only series that allowed that was Marvel.
…
Yeah, because SF has never done THAT before.
SF2’s char designer jumped ship to SNK, made Ryo/Robert, etc…
And that last sentence made no fucking sense.
Good for you.
You, my friend, are a class 1 moron.
Capcom WON’T redo Chaos because their time is up. Chaos was supposed to come out 5 years ago. Capcom won’t do it better because they don’t care, and SNKP couldn’t do it right because they did not have the resources. Why do you haters fail to understand that? SvC was done how it was so they could get back on their feet, just like damn near everything else that came out from 2k1-2k3.
Take your wishlist elsewhere, Capcom isn’t perfect, despite what you may think. Chaos was unfortunately made to fail in all ways except what truly mattered. It still made money, SNKP still floats along. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
As many stated before : the question is pointless.
In the end, we still get back to the same old question : who makes better games : Capcom or SNK?
And anyone who has had the slightest interest in 2D fighting for the last 10 years knows there is NO GOOD ANSWER!
Stop being fools. No flame war will ever solve this : Capcom is good at making Capcom games and SNK was good at making SNK games (and SNKP is trying hard to be good at making SNK-like games).
And remember : beyond any other aspect, SNK and Capcom games have different gameplays! VERY different! Don’t even try to compare a 4button layer with a 6 one and games with different timings and options! When you do this, you just prove your foolishness to the world. The two systems exists and everyone is free to prefer or not prefer one!
I’ll admit it easily : I’m a hardcore SNK fan and I’d give 10 years of my lifespan to be able to play legacy of might (the once promised sequel to MotW). Yet I like Capcom games too and have burnt many hours of my life playing them!
I just don’t understand the urge to say : you just don’t get it, XXX makes better games than YYY and you just can’t admit it. Why not be REAL honest and say (a-la-Penny-Arcade) “It’s not my fault you suck!”.
No, honestly, all this Capcom owns your snk ass and vice-versa is just making people switch to some #R… :sigh:
EDIT : sorry for those not aimed but seeing too many threads about always the same b.llsh.t in the community makes me wanna cry (/me switches back to Act Cadenza as a protestation method )
Last I checked, forums were for debate, so i dont see why youre telling anyone to not debate this stuff. As long as it doesn’t get out of hand. People who say, “OMG! You can’t debate Capcom and SNK” act like it’s such a sacreligious thing to talk about, like it is so taboo to discuss. Besides, a lot of people have posted up good points and some gameplay info. So I don’t really see what the problem is. Just as long as it doesn’t get out of hand into a flame war, while at the same time, slapping down any idiots who come into this thread (if you’ve noticed, a large majority of the SNK players have little to no argument at all, from a technical aspect of things.) Or rather, the real SNK players, for the most part, speak little to no english, so they cannot even participate in this discussion if they wanted to
Kaneda: My nigga, smackin down foos, haha. If you ask me, both Capcom and SNK suck ass, and they have been for quite a few years now. All they did was accelerate the pace that 2D died out, IMO.
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