Lol did u even watch the evo dvd of sc2, lol the game is unbalanced as fuck.
That is true. The game is fairly turtle friendly. FAR more than VF. But then, it’s again a matter of taste. A lot of people like CvS2, but there’s no denying the turtling in that. DoA has the problem of fanboys and haters not knowing what they’re talking about 90% of the time…kinda like SNK games.
Since when was VF turtle friendly? Do explain…
lol
I dunno, I’d have to say Soul Calibur 2 is a bit more balanced than some other 3D games if we’ve got Yunsung and Maxi players showing up at big tournaments and getting 2nd next to…RTD? Still…it’s not incredibly balanced.
DoA is fun (Tag Battle & 4 players is badass), but you can’t take it seriously, and if you DO meet someone who takes it seriously, they usually act like fuckwads to you. In my opinion, the 3 biggest problems DoA games have is:
1.) 80% of the moves in the game track (virtually NO practical sidestepping)
2.) 80% of the command throws are inescapable (and quick as HELL).
3.) Univeral Hold system. Let’s face it…high-level players are NEVER going to learn to like this, and they have a good reason. You can go ahead and say “omg people who abuse Holds get owned” but when there’s only 3 parts of the body you can attack (or in DoA:U’s case, 4), it’s simply a guessing game for the opponent when they get stunned. Plus, the “Hold” window is pretty big (when compared to games like Tekken, VF, and SC) and recovery from a missed-hold is very fast. It makes the turn-around factor ridiculously high. Maybe they should’ve kept the Arcade commands from DoA2 or adopted the damage scale from DoA3, but I’m not sure if either of those would’ve solved the problem.
I’ll tell you what though, I love the “Virtual Arcade” DoA:U has when you go on Live. That’s some badass stuff, I hope more fighting games online adopt that in the future. But the problem is that there’s so many people willing to be ASSHOLES in a crowded room. There’s many times where I just play DoA:U on Live over at my friend’s house with NO headset on, go into a room, start beating the same 5 people constantly, and some assholes (seeing that I have no headset on) will always start with comments like “This guy’s a fuckin’ fag, knock him off!” “Yeah, we don’t play this game all fuckin’ day like he does.” “Hahahah! Yeah! What a faggot!” I already hate people who play DoA for cornball shit like that, but I wonder if it’d be like that with every other game?
And yeah Femto, you make it pretty obvious as to why you like the game. As for Tekken, I think alot of people will tell you its 4-button scheme is just fine because it’s different and offers more move-variety; and “Limb Damage” is something you might wanna look for in failed games like Tao Feng. And how can you say Soul Calibur on Dreamcast was “overhyped”, is that the universal excuse for “That’s why it was so popular”??? When you say “Namco always sucked”, you obviously meant to YOU it sucks, because Namco sure gets alot more high-level play events & community feedback than DoA.
I don’t know many SNK players, but I never realized it was a “fanboy” game. I just know there’s a large fanbase of people jerking off to Iori’s sick nature (goths).
It isn’t. That’s what I said
what about MvC2?
Since you didn’t read the rest I guess you couldn’t answer my question. I already mentioned about gameplay before I mentioned hot chicks and costumes(which are a nice bonus and a nice change from some guy who is ripped and with/without a shirt). Nice reading on your part :tdown:
I still feel limb damage can add to a game and make it more three dimensional(sp?) like how TN did by adding to the enviroments in Ultimate. I think the problem tho’ is we have seen it in shitty games like Tao Feng and Fight Club. It would be hard to implent in the current fighting games we know , but I think if AM2 took this shit on it could work.
SC was overhyped. Not bad, but overhyped. It’s still better than SC2 imo, but I can still remember all the “there is nothing better on DC than SC comments, it’s the only game worth owning the system for” comments. Kinda like how Halo&Halo2 is on Xbox but not as large due to the user base. As far as the Namco has always sucked comment, it’s just their fighting games(mainly Tekken) I could never understand the popularity for. I don’t know, even my friend who is casual gamer (In which most casual gamers I have come across say Tekken is the best fighter) doesn’t understand why people like this game, but then again he only gives a shit about 3S and MvC2 (use to play against him 6 hours straight in thise games, when we were roommates) and a little bit of DOA.
WINBACK is on point with the main problems of DoAU (completely random tracking properties on moves, insanely fast and high-damaging throws). Several other people have mentioned how some moves for each character have obscene priority and safety, and I think those were added as a mechanism to force people to counter more (but why most singular moves give your opponent a guaranteed throw on block is way beyond me).
I don’t have a major problem with the hold system, though. “omg it’z jus a gu3ss1n g4m3!!!1”… well, no shit. And since when were major components of other fighting games were not this? Most wakeup games are just based on guessing your opponents action (throw, overhead, low, meaty attack, etc.) and responding accordingly (or with the correct percentage play). It is just much simpler to understand, which is in line with the design ethos of DoA2 and beyond. A fighting game, simplified and streamlined. Made in such a way so that a person who does not have five or more years of experience playing fighting games can still get involved in the mental aspect of the game without tripping over any of the execution requirements most other fighters have. (Personally, I do not think it does as good of a job as Soul Calibur (2) does, expecially in regards to retaining anything to keep high-level play interesting, but whatever.)
What I do have a problem with is the fact that one can be correct so much more on offense than a player countering and still lose horribly. I guess my answer there is to throw more, but meh. The damage on random shit (expecially on anything hi-counter) is way too high, and leads to a very wide variance in match results. I have seen 80%+ damage combos from one hi-connter throw or hold… yeah.
Most games on Xbox Live are like that. It mirrors most gaming forums in that regard, really.
If I remember correctly, early developmental versions of VF3 has a locational damage system in place, where as certain limbs got damaged the effectiveness of certain moves would decrease. (The armor system in Fighting Vipers was a baseline proof of concept for this). They removed it because it was too complicated, was an absolute bitch to keep track of in-game, and made the game feel more random, even if it was not.
-Dippy
Not all fighting games are guessing games.
First off in 2d there is such a element known as keepaway which doesn’t exist in 3d games, which is exactly how it sounds you keep the opponent away and make it harder to put in their mix up game.
Mix up game is not about guessing it’s about pulling out the unexpected when you are in hit stun you shouldn’t be able to do anything (the burst system in guilty gear x isn’t that bad though since it has a huge draw back and can only be used after taking so many hits after the intial burst you start with)
I personally know that "Wake up games’ is more about catching the opponent by suprise cuz I can personally sometimes block tri jumps on reaction. But there are so many more elements to the game than that, first off you got to get through assists which involves baiting out assists.
Then you have to pin down your opponent which involves utilizing your assists.
With the counter system as it is, everything is a risk except throws and to a shorter extent counters.
Why? because you are going to be hit anyways and the whole “If you expect the counter stop and punish the counter whiff” doesn’t hold first off from what i hear counters have quick recovery and a huge active window, also if you stop to wait for a counter whiff aren’t you risking that they don’t counter hence they get out of the combo (which is hard to get in in the first place due to block into throw?)next up why should your opponent have a 25% of doing more damage to you than you do them without any real risk? I mean they are getting hit might aswell try to counter right? It makes no sense when everything is a risk. If all but the best swift comboes are useless then what’s the point in doing anything other than those. It really is a game of chance then.
Yes in mvc2 you pull out your best moves and most broken comboes but it’s still deep… It still requires skill. It’s a competitive players job to pull out his best if he does and the game becomes one sided, homogonized, and skilless then it’s the game’s fault, it sucks, not the player and it isn’t worth playing.
And didn’t i hear about a guy who beat all the DOA pros while only having played 1 month?
:tdown:
yeah, because all SF: AC owners will be courteous and acknowledge that you beat them. :rolleyes:
how do you know he’s the best character? must’ve looked him up somewhere, like a doa site, or because someone said he was the best?
it probably takes the same amount of skill to that as it does to do TTT kazuya’s WGF, 1,1,4 or whatever that easy combo was. or even TTT jin’s (E)WGF, laser scraper, f,f+2. how about SC2 nightmare’s 3**, B? or Cable’s AHVBx3?
most practical combos are easy to do anyway. it’s figuring out how to start them that’s the hard part.
oh no! they didn’t hear about a tournament! that means they’re n00bs!
as far as competition goes, for namco games, their sponsored nationals are much more prestigious than evolution.
mvc2 is the most broken game ever. skill is whoever gets one opportunity to land their infinite. i don’t know about other people but i find it boring when you launch an opponent and combo them for 30 seconds.
for some moves, after you miss a counter, you’ll lose the opportunity to counter the rest of the combo.
and if you just sit there with your block up, i can run up and throw you.
obviously it doesn’t work all the time, because maybe the other guy will do a string or something. that’s when you have to out think your opponent.
then don’t do a move that leaves you at more frames for them to grab you. it’s not that hard.
that’s true of most fighting games. as if capcom intended A3 V-gouki to have a 100% OTG combo off of anywhere on the screen. or they intended for magneto and iron man to have infinites and cable’s AHVB to have zero recovery time. or roll cancellling in CvS2.
it’s called turtling in 3d games. instead of leaving the opponent far away and throwing crappy projectiles and assists, you stay far away and invite him to make a mistake before capitalizing on them.
what the hell are you talking about? mix up means just that, mix up. in most 3d fighting games, it means confusing your opponent between blocking mid and low, given all the moves, the speed of the moves, frame advantage/disadvantage, etc. in 2d games, there are hardly any mixups, because the only options you have for breaking low guards are jumping attacks and possibly overheads. maybe you count crossups, i don’t know. 2d games have their own zoning tricks and other ways to get you to take damage, but i’ve never been confronted with whether to block low or high.
“from what i hear” dude, did you even play the game? assuming you randomly counter, you have a 25% chance of countering the other person, 50% if you use lei/kasumi/genfu (and their 50% counters are more like GIs of SC2, or parries from Tekken). did you even try to combo in this game? if some fool decides to start countering everything, just throw them. by combos i’m assuming you mean strings, because a lot of true combos assume a no counter position (BT stun or a float)… and i really don’t think that you’d rely on strings to do your damage anyway (see tekken, SC series). there are even moves that have frame disadvantage on block, but if they are countered they don’t leave you at a disadvantage.
i’m not a big doa proponent (i’m a huge tekken player), but it’s not a shitty game. it’s not a deep game either. it’s not a “roll of the dice” although environment damage and hicounter can really turn the tables and increase the odds of the lesser player winning.
i agree with a lot of winback’s stuff and i hated the utter lack of evasiveness. once i figured ayane’s b+P was a high crush i used it a lot because it evades and gives me a good CH, but now it’s considered the most annoying move in that game. i also don’t like how no moves trade hits unless their hitframes are EXACT.
probably the most annoying part is that it seems like TN doesn’t care about the players. they kick out people from their own tourneys because they know how to use two or three moves well. they spend more time talking trash about VF and tekken than working on their own game. and itagaki’s retarded answer “doau is for people who like doa.” yea, and “et for atari is for people who like et for atari.” worst answer ever.
Why are they crappy? Does it make it any better than the randomness of countering during hit stun for free?
Fireballs are a good thing, usually people who hate them can’t deal with them.
Mix up sometimes requires taking reaction time into consideration. Most people can block a jump in on reaciton. You’ve never been confronted with blocking low or high?.. You’ve obviously haven’t played a good magneto player.
It’s a bad habit of mine to respond to games i haven’t played but by the same token i don’t think you’ve played beyond scrub level of mvc2 all i know is a game that allows for as you said it “A escalating chance of the lesser player to come out on top” is a bad game. I really really hate red parry in 3s, know why?.. because once they are in block stun they should have little to no options. Them being in block stun or getting hit is punishment for not taking the intiative in the first place or in hit stun case “blocking wrong”. I like playing defense i like playing keepaway but i play rush down too and i can tell you that’s seriously messed up. GGXX has the burst system, and i thought that was kind of powerful in some senses because of the fact that multi hitting moves can always be burst out of reliably (e.g Sol’s grand viper). But this is a whole lot worse.
Fire ball games are far from unstopable. Rush down is actually th most prevalant thing in mvc2 not keep away although it does exist with cable (actually a mix of rushdown + keepaway is most prevalent in some cases).
I personally think there is nothing wrong with true keepaway.
Also no one commented on the fact that some guy beat a bunch of “Pros” in a DOA tournament.
There are people playing mvc2 right now that have been playing for 2+ years and they are STILL not the best and haven’t even come close to taking that tittle.
Some kid plays for a month and he wins a “major” touranment with alot of doa experts.
play me sometime?
i’m SS, and i’m talkin mad shit to y’all naggin on doa let me see some them easy strats y’all have and use them on me
it’s not hit stun, certain moves have properties where they stagger and you can choose how to continue it. but if i hit you with jabs, you’re not going to have any stun.
furthermore, there’s the throw option.
fireballs aren’t bad. i can deal with them and i know how to fireball trap in sf2. they just don’t exist in most 3D fighting games.
that’s not a mix up game. that’s one character’s move. tell me all about any of the capcom characters’s mix up game.
i stopped playing mvc2 around 4 years ago, when spiral’s wall of swords was popular… that’s when i realized that messing up once means two characters gone after guard break AHVB. (and i assume everything’s gotten much worse anyway). if anything, it makes it easier for lesser players to win too.
and i have no idea what you’re talking about later, i never said keepaway was not a legitimate strategy, i just said that it exists in 3D games too.
if it’s a “fact,” then where’s the source?
i also find it hard to believe, given that the doa community is in shambles and no one ever shows up for tournaments, and the tournament scene for doa is garbage anyway, compared to the massive following for mvc2.
like i’ve been saying, doa is not a shitty game but it’s not a great game either. it’s much more playable than SvC, and much more fun to play than CFJ.
[quote=angry_man]
yeah, because all SF: AC owners will be courteous and acknowledge that you beat them. :rolleyes:
There are good players who accept defeat and there are asshole who can’t.
AFAIK, Akuma has no 100% from anywhere combo.
Maybe.
0 frame AHVB – yes. This was bad design, not a bug.
Roll cancel – yes. This was bad design, not a bug.
The ability to cancel a roll into a special move is a design decision (much like how you can cancel any normal into a special in the first few frames). The ability for the special move to take on the roll’s properities when this is done is almost certainly a glitch (maybe someone at Capcom thought it would be a funny feature), and their actions pretty much confirm this (by taking it out of the GC/Xbox versions).
Well, this may not be the story in question (DoA tournaments? Bwah?), but there is the story of a Namco rep. going over to Tecmo’s booth during the 2000 AMOA show and just beasting on everyone (including the developers) while constantly complaing about how much the game sucks until they had him escorted from the booth. That’s some funny shit. 
(I think the saw the original thread on soulcalibur.com waaaay back; I wonder if it is still around…)
WTF? I have never heard of this before, and it sounds hilarious. Links anywhere about this?
-Dippy
first thing that comes to mind when i think doa tournament is the one with the dude crying inbetween each round from all the shit he got for abusing that cartwheel move hayate had in doa3.
It was a Microsoft DOA3 tourney in Japan…
http://www.tecmogames.com/ubb/Forum17/HTML/005770.html
There are links to the finals videos posted in this thread.
And yes capcom has officially stated that roll cancelling in CvS2 is a bug which is why it was removed in the console versions.
Wtf, a Mississaugan not on the regional thread?
That guy who did that in the doa3 tourny should have been given a medal, not verbally abused for his (lack of) efforts. Basically he showcased to the fighting game community why doa is such a retarded fighting game and the silly doa fanbois got bitter because they finally realised what the haters had been saying for a long time, that the game is broken and sucks