first rd ends mix up heavy on left side…
second rd ends in knockdown, dive kick sweep dive kick sweep…
vortex …now everyone go home, or pick a new main!
perhaps explore another character. 
Be nice. Lol
Lol, Takin never presses back, but always forward like a real man, even if that means Hadouken to the face. 
and I’ve evolved…lol
nowadays I focus dash! whooooohoooooo!
flip throw does not lead to another setup.
command dive kick, timed for ambiguity, doesn’t have enough hitstun to lead to knockdown
airtatsu doesn’t lead to another setup.
the other stuff doesn’t address a vortex.
Throw vs techbaiting is not a vortex, it’s just a mixup. Is goukens throw/techbait mixup better than most other non-grapplers, sure. But it’s also more vulnerable.
…
lol, that vid, particularly in this context, is just… errr, i dont know, nahhh, i am just speechless and do not know how to express properly how entertaining and revealing this vid really is… reminds me somehow of ghandi at dreamhack…
yeah, time to pick another main!
Of course Gouken is vortex character, this shouldn’t even be a debate. His Vortex is not as to-the-frame guess heavy as Akuma and Ibuki but its just as strong because of how much damage we can do if/when the opponent does guess wrong. Theres no difference between Akuma doing an ambiguous df palm whiff into bnb, then doing a df throw than us doing an amb dive kick into bnb with tatsu.
IMO its worse for Akuma’s vortex than ours BECAUSE of the small damage as it has safe options and is really ambiguous but in essence it gives the opponent more chances to escape. You guess wrong on one of our ambiguous divekicks and its 40% with tatsu. Or better yet you block the correct way and we hit you with a cross up divekick for 40% - you just lost hella life for simply blocking. Akuma, Ibuki and others with a true vortex cant do that.
So to clear all of this, Ibuki and Akuma have a true vortex while Gouken does not; our vortex is not as to-the-frame as theirs is - but our vortex, if done correctly, is more effective/efficient because of the damage dealt when one of our options are landed.
good point!
edit: the tone herein is light hearted and reminiscent, reverent if you will.
its sad a 2+yr old vid for ants is dug up to prove a 4yr old point for blank…jk 
I was vortex hunting in vanilla w sweep, DJ.mk(ambig)>sweep pwalk
people in general must think individually and collectively that this forum don’t know shit:
…our own immort4l was in a NeoGaf thread discussing ghandis match recently and mentions me of all folks saying takinflight wishes his gouken was that random…
bitches we been playing this game for 25years… let us own some of our technique , trying to negate 2 decades of my life and lunch money with that dismissive shit…lol
peep the sig…I was there for that…a no name unranked walk-on…its in us all
you can vortex w a bag of tortilla chips, Windex and Chap Stick…it just depends on how you’ve conditioned your opponent…I can vortex you at Ro Sham Bo …shit …I’ll vortex you at church on Sundays w a donation plate , incense and book of hymnals anything goes.
This poll shows that people are playing with Gouken very differently.
Thats how he was built. Dual modded in a sense, with rush down options and keep away options as well. To each their own.
Its just that people undetstand “vortex” differently. I’m more of the croud “it leads into another setup” but i guess to each his own, yeah…
You did not understand my post.
I just explained the tools Gouken has, not everyone leads to a hard knockdown, but there’s a use for all of them if even only to dizzy the mf.
Also you are wrong there is no setup after flip throw, I use that shit all the time.
I also explained I am only a layman, watch Dek and you see what a professional does with this character.
All of you people also seem to forget, that you can sweep after EX palm or backthrow, Gouken has extremely many options only a vortex char has.
It’s not about understanding Vortex differently… keep knocking them down until you can dizzy them or beat them…
End in something that has UN-techable knock down = another set up. It’s about 6 or 7 BASIC things Gouken can do to create this state…
But you’re right, to each his own…
Edit: Dup Post… but I’m not deleting it…
It’s not about understanding Vortex differently… keep knocking them down until you can dizzy them or beat them, it’s that simple.
I don’t get the fact that plenty Gouken users are telling and showing that he can jump in on people for free and yet people are still complaining and pushing back instead of trying to figure out what the rest of us are doing differently if we are having success with it.
To add injury to insult, DEK09 is on top of the fucking leader board and is saying one thing, and STILL NO Listen… but if you go and check the BP, most folk can’t even get over 10k BP but can tell you ALLLLL about Gouken.
FOH
To each his own…
Not saying I disagree with you or DEK09. (If you read my argument you can clearly tell that I agree he is a vortex character) However, just because the most successful player play it this way doesn’t mean that is the only right way to play the character, either.
PS: I do have 16k BP on Gouken on PS3.
No one questioned whether or not there was a right/wrong way to play him, just simply if he was a vortex character/has a vortex. That’s it.
It’s no different than seeing an Akuma player who jumps back and fireballs and runs away and get’s high bp that way… he still would be wrong to say Akuma isn’t a vortex character.
The thing that bothers me is unlike most Akuma players who understand Akuma can vortex you or run away… most Gouken players can’t even acknowledge that he can do both… and it’s clear when we discuss it b/c it’s all of these incorrect statements said in regards to him vortexting…
**examples: **
He can’t 50/50 off of his vortex.… bullshit, the jump in itself is the 50/50 b/c you have to guess right or it leads to a punish or another knock down.
He can’t beat auto-correct dps … that’s bullshit, there’s plenty of ways to deal with auto-correct dps, one of them its to make it not auto-correct dp in the first place
The set-ups don’t lead to other knock downs… that’s bullshit too, end with a hard knock down instead of ending with palm or tatsu.
If someone prefers to play defensive Gouken, that’s fine b/c he has the tools to do it, but he also has the tools to vortex people and pin them down on the ground.
I hate to go back to the Akuma example but the difference between Gouken and Akuma players who vortex… Most Akuma players who zone also understand that he can vortex, but most Gouken players who zone don’t understand that he can vortex… and it shows in the conversations/debates/arguments we have around here and it shows in the polls.
I think people should play however they want, but we shouldn’t say things that isn’t true about the character either, sadly I don’t see that stopping any time soon.
PS: I think you having 16k BP and agreeing that he has a Vortex helps my argument.
gouken’s “50/50” and “The set-ups don’t lead to other knock downs” is not flat-out “bullshit” because the “other 50” generally can’t lead to HKD.
for example:
jumpin vs crossup air tatsu
with akuma - both lead to sweep
with gouken - air tatsu leads to zoning reset
jumpin vs command dive kick
command dive kick done at the timing to make it ambiguous does not have enough frame advantage to lead to an inevitable sweep.
yes, it can lead to a reversal wiff and a resulting sweep punish, but that’s hardly the same thing.
flip kick vs flip throw
flip throw’s HKD does not have enough frame advantage to set up the vortex again. Yes, you can do a few shenannigans afterwords, like a command divekick hoping for a reversal wiff or a step back to dj.lk for a reversal stuff but neither really lead to another HKD.
"he can’t beat auto-correct dps"
who’s saying that? I must have missed that one. Sure, gouken can beat autocorrects, but, at the same time, gouken’s plan for doing that generally results in a less-effective vortex.
I’m sorry, but it’s just not as straightforward as you are painting it.
is my 13k bp high enough to allow me an opinion?
if so:
gouken’s vortex is a vortex in the same way that this
http://i.imgur.com/GnfP3gx.jpg
is cheese.
Technically correct, but you are going to feel the pain if you use it too much.
my dicc is in your mom’s vortex 
Do you guys even know what a vortex is?
May want to google it.
Imagine being a piece of flotilla, once you are in a vortex it is hard as fuck to escape.
Everything Akuma does leads into a hard knockdown that leads right back to his original set up. It’s hard to escape once you are in his vortex. One knockdown can lead to game over.
Akuma is the original “vortex” character, and the one I know best, so I will explain it that way.
Once Akuma has a hard knockdown on you he has a few options off a flip.
1: Flip Palm. Safe Jump. Breaks armor. HARD KNOCKDOWN.
2: Flip Throw. HARD KNOCKDOWN
3: Fake Palm, go low for a hit confirm into… HARD KNOCKDOWN.
(I’m not even including his tatsu in the air to cross up vs a front jump, both of which will lead to HKD)
It should be noted, that unlike Gouken, Akuma has time to go back to his set up no matter which of those he lands. If any of those three land, he can repeat the same exact set of options listed above.
There is no focus back dash out of this. If he whiffs throw he can sweep you (into HKD!), if he does palm you get broken (into HKD!). I suppose you could focus backdash the fake, but you will still be reset next to him and it is risky as fuck to do so cause of the two previous outcomes listed.
If you reversal, you get a measly 100 to 200 damage, if you guessed right… and the situation resets. However, if you guessed wrong… Full punish into… HKD. This is definitely risk/reward in Akumas favor.
Clearly the best thing to do is block… Oh wait… you can still be thrown from teh flip into another HKD.
I admit, you can usually block once or twice, but even when that happens it’s not over. Akuma has the best walk speed in the game (tied) and he has frame traps or throws that lead back into… HKD! From whence he puts you right back into the original 1/2/3 (vortex).
It is hard to escape the situation, since every single one of his options leads right back to 1/2/3. Even when successfully defending (guessing) against 1/2/3, you then have to deal with the frame traps, walk speed, and throw game. Guess wrong there (fuck man how many times do I have to defend correctly against this asshole?) and it is back to square one.
It’s kind of like being in a maze, where you make one wrong turn and you are back at the beginning again, at the same disadvantage as before. There is no advantage reset, no back to neutral after you have guessed wrong.
For the most part, Akuma is heavy on the reward in these situations, and the opponent is heavy on the risk. You are not going to get a cl.st.mp > c.hp xx EX palm punish off any of the shit Akuma is trying here. You will get to anti-air for max 200, you will do a c.mk if he messed up his frame traps, or you will get a tech.
Think about that, think about what Akuma gets if he guesses wrong, and think about ALL the shit that he gets when you guess wrong. He is never really put into the disadvantage even when you successfully defend his shenanigans.
Gouken has a safe jump (block that shit, don’t be stupid), or a flip throw. Take the flip throw. End of pressure cause he has no followups from that. You can’t safe jump afterwards (No, you can’t, the follow up cross up dj.mk can be auto-corrected to hit you, if it doesn’t hit you, it wasn’t fucking auto-corrected OBVIOUSLY). You can walk up and meaty or throw afterwards. That’s about the best “mix up” you got going on.
Since you have nothing to worry about with his flip after a HKD, all you really have to worry about is the frametraps/throw after you block. You basically only have to worry about a CH sweep or a clst.mp frame trap into CH st.mp > sweep as far as hard knockdowns go without using meter. Beyond that it is going to cost meter to frame trap into a fireball and then FADC.
Everyone can do a canned safe jump set up on a hard knockdown, it doesn’t make them a vortex character with umpteen options people have to defend against on a single HKD, where all umpteen options lead back to the same disadvantage you started with.
Yes, I am sure you can pull up some very specific examples that cannot be sustained to try to disprove me, it’s fine.
It’s nearly impossible for Gouken to kill you off of one hard knockdown anywhere on the screen, not so for Akuma. A person has to be a god damn idiot to get swept and then let you do a flip into a dive kick full combo with a flip throw reset into dizzy.
Gouken’s flip options are just not scary. I’d laugh at Akuma as well if his Palm wasn’t a hard knockdown and his flip throw had as much recovery as ours.