parry whiffs are bs. They are not needed and they can’t be implemented properly.
What would you gain with parry whiffs? I mean let’s look at it this way, you want parry whiffs so you can punish someone for a ‘good luck’ parry attempt, right? … if the parry is not correctly timed you will punish it anyway because they can’t block in time(you have to press forward in order to parry so you’re gonna eat the attack if you timed it wrong). An example
Ken does a fierce SRK up close, you try to parry but fail, you eat the SRK and maybe an additional super. Now if there was a whiff animation it would not make ANY difference because the outcome is the same. You would probably not even see the whiff animation.
Your Ken cr.forward example. Yes you execute a low parry attempt and an attack at the same time(only if the stick was in a neutral postion before the directional input) but in order to successfully parry, it would still have to be timed right and the cr forward doesn magically save you from an incoming attack. You can “easily” be hit between the failed parry attempt and the time it takes for the cr.forward to come out.
There is no advantage that you gain from a parry whiff animation that you wouldn’t already have of a misstimed parry attempt.
At least not if you just add the whiff animation, you’d have to change the command for parry because if you don’t you’ll get a whiff animation everytime you press forward. Example:
Ryu is cornered and throws a jab hadouken, chunli is a bit more then half screen away. She want’s to go forward a bit to postition herself so she can land a jump in while evading the hadouken BUT WAIT! Parry whiff animation and she eats the FB.
But what to do? You can’t change the parry command to ANY direction without fucking the game up so you’d have to use button combinations but most of them are already used up. All same strenght button combinations for example. You could maybe change them to PP for high and KK for low parry but that would dumb it down incredibly because it’s easier to execute(IMO), you can attempt to parry while blocking and it would simply change the game too much.
People aren’t seeing the big picture of a no parries 3s. Many characters do NOT have solid wakeup moves, or even moves that beat throws. For these characters without parry, they have NO way of defending against a meaty/throw game besides super. Characters like Makoto, 12, Q, Hugo, Alex would be alot worse.
actually if you make the parry command foward foward the dash could be the missed parry animation (and the character could lay down for a down down parry or even add a “parry button”) that way you would have to know for sure that the attack was coming and you punish it.
i’m pretty sure the window between a “missed” parry in 3s is 1 frame that’s not nearly enough to punish.
the thing is that sure if you mistime a parry you eat something but that’s simply not enough because you can “fish” for parry’s for free and that’s kinda :lame:
Then you would have to make the time frame for a successfull parry larger because at least you need twice as long to input it and it would probably lead to some unintentional parry situations when you do in fact want to dash and not parry.
… the frame amount for a missed parry is x, you have a number of frames time to input the parry everything else is a missed parry.
I don’t get what you mean, you are contradicting yourself. You agree with me that if you mistime a parry you’re gonna eat the attack but in the same sentence you say that you can fish for parries for free? Huh?
Maybe the wrong train of thought but I don’t get what you are trying to say.
but you see the thing is that if you make dash the parry command this is what happens:
you dash, in the intial frames of the dash (it’s 3 frames in cvs2 i’m not sure how big it is in 3s it’s probably 6 or more) you would parry any middle or high attacks but then you are vulnerable cuz you are dashing and if you did it close to your opponent there is a big window to be punished.
now let’s look at the current parry system,
you can “fish” for parries as in say you are doing ryu’s overhead, you press foward now if your opponent attacks you mid level they get parried and then they probably get hit with ryu’s overhead.
now let’s say they don’t attack you press foward and you press middle punch, you get in your overhead, nothing happened in between.
you get to “fish” for a parry for free.
parry shouldn’t be something to get lucky on it was meant to stop traps ect. but i’m sure it was meant to be only used when you were CERTAIN of a incoming attack, eating something as punishment only means you can’t be pressing foward at random , but eating something is usually a product of bad timing or predicting incorrectly and face it most top 3s players have good parry timing and if you predicted incorrecly you deserve to get hit in the face.
eating something is just the first step in balancing parry, you shouldn’t be randomly trying to parry everything anyways, getting a lucky parry by buffering a parry into moves you were going to do anyways is the next thing that should be gotten rid of. Overall I just dislike parrying.
What’s Third Strike like w/o Parry? See for yourself with this handy guide.
Heres my little formula for creating Street Fighter Alpha: Third Strike - Fight for the Past.
You have to have un-locked all the pages of System Direction, and Extra options.
On page 1 of System Direction, turn Ground, Anti-Air, Air, and Guard Parry (red parry) off. On page 2, turn Absolute Guard on. Page 3, turn High Jump off. Page 5, turn Leap Attack off. Turn Personal Action after KO off. On page 6, turn EX Move off. Turn Target Combo off, turn Super Move/Super Art Cancel off. Page 8, turn Air Guard on. Page 10, All Super Arts turned on.
And there you go. Street Fighter Alpha: 3rd Strike - Fight for the Past. If you’re going for an Alpha 2 feel you can turn off dashes. If you’re going for an Alpha 1 feel, turn on chain combos. Going for an Alpha 3 feel, turn S.A. Guage Max at Start on.
Now all of you Alpha fans have a new game to play.
I’d like to make a few observations about this discussion so far.
Higher-Jin, I hope you also have complaints about RCing in CVS2, because your arguments against option-select parries in 3s make it seem like you’re complaining because 3s has a less effective, but slightly easier to perform type of RC. Think about it.
And option select isn’t even that great. I often option select a throw and get severely punished after the parry, during the throw animation (which have great startup).
Jin, now you’re just wrong. Any time you have to use “probably” in the argument, you’ve blown it.
Inputting parries into your attack isn’t the end-all be-all of 3s. If you attempt a parry and you don’t get attacked, you either walk forward or crouch. During the walking animation, you can’t parry. You have to wait about a full second to even try to parry again, otherwise the game will think you were trying to dash and you’ll get hit anyway. If you attempted a down-parry, the game will put you into a crouch, animate you getting all the way back up, and THEN you can try again. At any time during these animations, if you get hit it’s your ass. There’s your “whiff animation”.
I honestly can’t see how someone can argue so vehemently against a system they have NO experience with. Dude, play some 3s. Even when I hate on SSBM or CFE, I know why I’m doing it.
you’re right about some things, although i want to point out i’m not arguing vehemently, my most recent posts were saying how there should be a parry whiff and the next one was explaining how it should be implemented (the command) and what “fishing for parry” means. And the posts before that are mainly saying how the old school system is actually as good if not better than 3rd strike’s but i admit that’s biased since i don’t play it that much. Your crouching and walking animations as whiffs don’t count because in option select parry you don’t just walk foward or crouch you implement them in the command for the move and the vulnerability is about 1 frame supposedly.
I’d also like to say that i agree with you it doesn’t break the game.
i think alot of ppl get turned off by this game because they dont know how to defend against parries and arent used to being punished so hard for being predictable.
and to the comment about people being turned off by not being able to defend from parries i can totally relate since alot of people complain about marvel cuz they can’t deal with the team dynamic and other various things.
i never said sf3 was a bad game, however it is a very different one and i sincerely doubt it’s better than non parry sf (no i don’t just mean sf2t).
edit: Yea maybe i shouldn’t bring my personal opinions into this so sorry i can only really argue some of the mechanics and even then i’m limited simply because i haven’t play tested them, so yea i’ll quit while i’m ahead and say that i’m not the best person to state a tried and true opinion on parry since i usually don’t play sf3s even though many of the points i’ve made have some roots in some of vicsants opinions and he was a top 3s player in the early days if i’m not mistaken (reading his posts about 3s brought many points about 3s to light for me but i’m still one of the worst people to give a solid answer on the subject).
Jesus Christ do you need to put something new up every other post, slow down homo. To follow that up, if you haven’t really played 3s, don’t talk. That simple.
OT, 3s would blow w/o parry, no specific reason it just would, iono.
