Really now? They’re probably both around S tier, Strider has safer meterless pressure options but Vergil has some of the highest priority in the game with meter as well as much higher damage solo BnBs.
Yeah, I believe Strider is much better than Vergil. Vergil being S-tier is about as laughable as Sentinel being S-tier. Strider, on the other hand, has everything you ask for from a character and is a threat anywhere on a team. His pressure is second to none, even making Zero’s look tame in comparison. He’s a walking, assistless left/right mixup fiend with full screen tracking migh/lows. To top it off, there’s no way to really run away from this character, and let’s not even forget about his assist. Damn right he’s better than Vergil, he’s better than just about everyone.
Ok… Strider is #1 and Vergil is as good as a character who gets instant overheaded by the entire cast. Nice to see you have faith in the little ninja but someone must’ve smoke bombed your brain when you were making that post.
They’re both “better than most of the cast” tier.
i would put vergil above strider for free. Not to mention that vergil is like the only character in the game that can have his way against dark phoenix. Being able to summon swords, go in for free, teleport+assist is beyond ridiculous and strider doesn’t quite have tools like that.
vergil has better matchups and rapes dark phoenix clean, further range than strider, better supers that are basically unbeatable, better damage output definitely.
The only places I see where strider is possibly better is an assist and pressure but you could easily make the argument that vergil’s pressure can be better than striders because vergil gets in for free with an unstoppable hit box or can setup pressure with his round trip for double mixups.
if you take into account everything that matters, vergil is definitely better than strider currently. The only clean argument you can make is that strider’s assist is better than vergils. Everything else that matters, vergil has the advantage. When vergil has bar and good team chemistry behind him, he doesn’t have 1 bad matchup in the game from what I’ve noticed. The only thing that would stop vergil in that position is another vergil.
I don’t like Vergil against characters like Trish, Firebrand and Zero where they can lame him out while punishing teleports. Cutting projectiles is great, but it’s not enough to deal with those IMO. Also unsure how he does against the hyper punish crowd with Strange and Hawkeye since it seems they can blow him up with their game pretty hard.
I will be real sad if Vergil is a better character than Strider. Was really enjoying playing my DMC-free teams in Ultimate. At least Zero still blows up online Vergils. Hadangeki, Hadangeki teleport Busterlvl3, full combo.
You don’t really need to be able to rape Dark Phoenix clean anymore because the road to her getting 5 is much harder now that she can’t protect herself from snap back mix ups at all and meters build slower in general.
Strider’s Vajra L,M and especially H is pretty much an instant kill on any bad move Dark Phoenix makes if you wanna get into that though. Especially if you have formation B and or Ouroborous out.
Ther’es definitely a number of other characters in the game that have shown to more or less be abl e to contend or full out have their way with DP also but again…Dark Phoenix is not the issue she used to be so back to another topic.
I don’t see how Vergil can have better matchups overall than Strider when Strider was designed to be a character of almost no bad matchups. If Strider had a bad matchup he practically wouldn’t be useable. He’s another 750k health broke character that comes with a stupid ass assist also. The only thing it’s really going to take is just some work to put all of his formations and teleport game together with assists and that’s pretty much it. Barely is going to need the Ouroborous to shit on most of the characters in the game.
What makes Strider balanced is 750k health. Other than that Capcom is basically saying “it’s up to you to make this character as retarded as possible until he dies cuz there’s nothing he can’t do”.
I honestly don’t see how you can name a character that Strider is going to lose to 6 months down the road from now. Especially considering his assist also helps characters lose matchups less badly. A character that has pretty much no bad matches and comes with assists that makes all of his partner’s matchups better? Like seriously.
We’ve got a lot of time with both Strider and Vergil in general. Neither character has been explored enough by anybody either in theory or in tournaments for it to really matter at this point.
They’re just both characters and the thread should generally be about focusing on exploiting every bit of Strider than whining about how he doesn’t durp like Wolverine day one.
vergil should win those fights quite easily if he has the bar. The hardest one would be zero but if you play vergil team of like battery\vergil\akuma, vergil comes out and has the best level 1 super in the game with assists that just allow him to mixup for days.
vergil will need to be rebalanced sooner or later. Once vergil is in a dominant position, he is one of the hardest characters to stop in the game because you can’t fight him back. You just have to block 5-6 times for 1 sword super before you get 1 safe look or pick an invincible assist and if he has 2 bars, thats 10+ looks he’s going to get for mixups. No one is going to block all of that. Nothing stops vergil once he’s loaded. He will go in and just get a hit due to probability.
and strider has bad matchups and vajra assist can be dodged quite easily. He’s not even close to being the best character in the game so its absurd to say he has no bad matcups. Yea, I agree strider is top tier but there are probably 5-7 characters I would stick in front of strider right now. What I tend to notice is that players are just doing shit rather than baiting it out then mentioning how good it is. There are some big, easy counters to vajra assist and as time passes by more and more counters will pop up. After all it is only week 2. If I’ve figured them out, I’m sure other people have too but @ the risk of making strider weaker, I don’t want to post all of them up. It is a good assist but it certainly has it holes as all assist do in this game. You just have to know how to play into the holes so you can dodge him or punish him. I know for a fact vergil can bait out strider assist, activate level 1 sword super, block and just go ape shit on him and quite a few characters can create an alternate scenario and equally beat his ass.
The only character I could see coming close to being a tough matchup for him would be Zero. Other than that I don’t see anybody that could give him problems let alone clean beat him.
I do agree that his assist has holes just like any assist but, it shuts down an area of the screen that a lot of other characters are going to have trouble dealing with regularly so no matter which way you slice it that assist is going to be an S tier assist. Simply by virtue of it will be almost necessary for some characters to beat other characters with it and it gives a hard knockdown if the character was in the air everytime. Which the opponent being in the air is preferably when you want to call it ala jam session.
zero is a tough fight, vergil with meter is impossible, doom can be a bad fight with the right assists, dorm with the right assists, dark phoenix totally rapes him clean
and there are some odd side characters that are just cheap enough to beat him. strange\hawkeye have those incredibly fast starting supers and they hurt when the opponent pops xf2\3 on them to kill strider off etc… you throw a jab and you possibly just died. Those characters don’t exactly “fight” strider, they lame him out which is equally as effective.
for me, I would classify the best assists in the game as the most universal ones. Striders varja assist isn’t completely universal. Storm can’t use it, magneto can’t use it, dorm can’t use that well either. There are a whole slew of characters that can’t use that assist because they don’t have fast solo OTG moves to combo after it, its not completely universal. However things like drone assist, arrows from hawkeye askmaster, doom beam, mag beam, dog beam, akuma tatsu etc… these assists are completely universal to anyone and its why IMO, they’re considered more S tier than strider kick.
striders assist is only S tier when you have a character that can follow it up for free. If you have x23, its not going to be 100% ideal for her and its far from S tier @ that point.
its just a different perspective. I do think doom with strider kick is S tier but with other characters it can be pretty useless. Every character in this game can use doom beam, not every character can use strider vajra kick, its not even half of the cast and even some of the top tiers can’t use it properly.
lastly, the best characters in the game all have some type of extended air movement. Even if you were in the air and vajra assist is coming, you can AD\air teleport @ the right time and dodge it or simiply just poke him out of it if your character has a normal that goes above their head. Hawkeye j.h for example will stop striders kick 90% of the time when timed properly and I believe dormamus j.h does the same.
can we stop talking about strider counters now =*(
This. This forum needs more talk about what Strider can do to try and fuck up other characters. Zero in particular. Fuck that robot.
I obviously disagree about Vergil winning those fights. Vergil is really good, but I don’t see him as good as Viper, Zero, or Firebrand.
Also against any team with Viper or Firebrand on it I NEVER advocate having Vergil in slot 2 as he’s a free unblockable into a dead character that ends up being meter positive since he has low health and no air mobility until he’s activated. What do you consider the best level 1 super in the game? Although it’s not a super I consider EX seismo the best use of 1 bar since it can cancel all of Viper’s non super moves, is fully invincible and +22 on block. Vergil’s tutu is a pretty beefy super though as is his devil trigger.
You get autoguard for Vergil’s forced mix up so he mainly gets high low unless people mash advance guard making him have left right as well. His high low is not fast, 2C in the air is not an overhead thus limiting his options for actual scary high low when he’s forcing you to block swords. If he’s silly enough to leave gaps so that left right works option select emergency combination/burst time and EX thunder knuckle all beat his options and can lead into a dead Vergil.
A few things do stop fully loaded Vergil, or are exceptionally good at letting him never get fully loaded in the first place.
I agree on Strider not being number one however. He has flaws that are exploitable and a single assist doesn’t fix all of them, that automatically keeps him from being the best.
I don’t agree with any of those matchups Shoult mentioned. Strider has way too many tools that if he makes a good read during, shuts down everything they’re trying to do and then he’s basically gonna stay in at that point. All of those characters Zero will most likely have more trouble against than Strider when it comes down to it.
Talking about Strider counters is better for his matchups thread any way so we can take it there. Not going to feed this “I suck with Strider” stuff any longer.
Troll thread. has to be.
Even if it started that way, shoult/chrisis/DJ have turned it around. So far this is my favorite Strider thread in the forum.
this scares me.
i just want to point out that this is week 2 for me as well so I could be totally wrong on it which I have 0 problem with. its good to see different opinions and @ least people disagreeing with me offer counter points rather than some troll shit.
there is only 1 way to truly see where strider is weak @ and its to wait and see how the game will develop unfortunately. Until then its a lot of theory marvel which is fine. Even 2 weeks in, people are beginning to see his strengths\weaknesses.
vergil has more priority range than strider, hits harder in general, level 1 super will shut strider down for free and give vergil free big ass combo attempts and multiple ones @ that. I think its easy to say that well zero\viper are better than vergil right now which is the case but zero\viper have had 9 months to basically build a formulaic game plan where as vergil has had 2 weeks. I think its only fair to give him half as much time as zero\viper had to develop before calling him better\worse.
The only way to judge his position within the tier list right now is to gauge his tool set and what limited knowledge people have on his matchups.
I don’t know about the future, but vergil is DEFINITELY better off the bat. The dude has the most stupid ridiculous range ever, and he even has retard proof tools that remind me of wesker like his random crossup super that hits everywhere on the screen. He also has a gimp beserker slash, and his voice is so fucking annoying and sounds like the chipmunks from the christmas dubs.
strider is gdlk. S tier. if anyone disagrees fight me on xbox