Legion> DHC> Devil Trigger.
Boom safe dhc out and mixup.
An argument? On a forum? Whatever shall I do!? If someone disagreed with me I’d just die!
The only disappointment I have with Strider is I can only select him once. I wish I can run team Strider/Strider/Doom. It would be awesome.
But yea hes a good character. Ouroburous is awesome. Its so fun to just activate it and go into xf and just run around. He is probably one of the funnest characters I have played in this game. lol
how well a character places in a tournament has no merit over whether or not they’re top tier. To be considered top tier, you need top tier option sets and really good matchups amongst the better characters, that how you define a top tier character.
sometimes a character can be very top tier out the gate and just not get played. Just because that character doesn’t place in tournaments doesn’t mean said character isn’t top tier, it just means no one who’s good has taken that character that far yet.
dhalsim was top tier in mvc2 for probably 10 years but for 8 of those years, everyone shat on him pretty hard. It wasn’t until magnetro did some digging that we figured out dhalsim was severely underrated and things like that happen all the time in the versus series because of how much freedom we get within the system.
and when shitty characters like she hulk manage to do really well, it doesn’t mean she hulk is top tier in the early builds. More like the game was so new, people were allowed to get away with ugly, basic, fundamental play which she hulk is VERY good at. An average character is allowed to succeed because of the newness of the game. When a game is brand new, fundamentals\basics will always win first because it literally takes no time to develop that shit. Characters with deep cohesive game plans usually end up taking longer to build and when that happens, characters like she hulk stop competing. Its like how guile was considered really good when mvc2 first dropped and as time went by, he kept moving lower down the tier list.
on a separate note, if you’re disappointed with strider, chances are you’re not looking @ him hard enough. He’s very good in this game and even though he can’t do orbs 24\7 like he could in mvc2, he’s like playing mvc2 strider with no orbs and some nice tweaks. He has the best teleport mixup in the game because of that DJ of his that gives him some retarded mixups. His priority is still there too on his normals.
lol @ strider has no safe ways in or out. while that level 1 super may be fucking awful for damage output, it is very dhc friendly. You can get any character that creates a pin with a super, dhc legion and it will be safe 99.99999% of the time.
Why are you so correct and godlike?
That said, to address an earlier point about tiers:
If there is an event with 128 entrants and 64 people have Wolverine how impressive is it if 4 out of top 8 are Wolverine players?
Now if at that same event there are 5 Zero players and 3 of them make top 8 isn’t that comparatively in Zero’s favor?
The representation of a character factors in to how often they’ll do well at tournaments quite a bit since there’s a larger sample size of players making it more likely that one of them will be a good player regardless of characters.
Characters like Viper, Zero, Dante, Firebrand, and Strider are all incredibly strong to fairly nonsensical levels. That said aside from Dante their representation in tournament play is incredibly low and out of those the ratio of people who do well with Viper and Zero thus far is pretty exceptional.
Strider has so many tools and more importantly his weaknesses are things he has tools to get around, damage output is a circumventable weakness thanks to his gram dry tag combos. Low health means that he needs to use his exceptional priority and movement to not get hit. Strider is a problem and will be more of one as people develop him further.
i don’t think hard tagging has exactly improved his damage output but I need some clarification on your setup. Is it possible to do your setup midscreen any position? I did fuck with it for a minute in training mode but it seems like you need the tag to be spaced properly which why it always works in the corner and if needs specific spacing to work, it limits how many looks he can have for damage output. I’m almost positive it won’t work midscreen but its your setup so you might know something I don’t.
lastly, you have to consider how many characters can hard tag after that strider combo and do combos that create those knockdown states to get rid of the hit stun decay and that severely limits the amount of playable teams for him while using that strategy. Then there is also the fact that within that small cast that can combo like that, those characters will also need to be able to give strider functioning assists. while strider\viper towards the corner may land a big ass combo, strider\viper literally has nothing to honestly help strider and team chemistry is incredibly vital as I’m sure you’re completely aware of. Outside of that combo loop, that assist does nothing for strider.
I’ve played nothing but ninja since the game dropped and 2 things I’ve noticed for him is that he needs a full screen assist with awesome durability to make his point play work so he doesn’t get zoned for free and he also needs a pin assist to create mixups. Personally, I would not sacrifice those 2 tools in favor of combo damage even though what he has right now without hard tag setups can be pretty bad.
but this is only week 2, who knows what his ideal team chemistry could be. Thats why experimenting is so god like!
Thanks to light gram, certain assists, and formation B you can move people to wherever you need them. Also Strider gets a lot out of Viper being on the team as long as a buffer character is in between them.
He can abuse her assist exceptionally well since with his dash momentum carrying over he gets really good unblockable set ups with burn kick since it’s the best overhead assist paired with a good character. Additionally, it’s a single high damage hit (90k) with set hit stun so no matter where it’s used in the combo it can be beneficial. Thanks to Strider’s fusion of movement and normals I think he gets more out of burn kick than almost anyone else as others do better using low assists to set up unblockables while Strider can use overheads thanks to formation B cancel into dash 2C.
DHCs from Strider to Viper aren’t too great at all, and Viper’s main DHC into Strider is into Ragnarok since Legion is so low damage. unless Strider was cornered when it came out. Thus why I feel it’s important to have a buffer character who has good DHCs with both. I like firebrand for this since both benefit a great deal by having a state change DHC for legion and Emergency combination respectively. Other optimal characters could be Zero or Dante, but I’m fleshing out firebrand right now as I really enjoy him.
I actually feel that Strider Viper has very good team chemistry because of the match ups they cover and their various strengths as characters. The only mutual weakness they have IMO is firebrand where Viper covers all of Strider’s other difficult matches especially when paired with his Vajra assist.
As for the assists Strider wants I partially agree. I think a fast horizontal assist that covers 2/3 of the screen or more benefits him and a lock down assist, what I feel he gets out of Viper is much more character specific to her than just the general concepts of useful assists since with how amazingly silly his dash and normals are he no longer needs to convert his close range pressure into mix up, but just into unblockables. If Formation B weren’t quite so stupid on block I wouldn’t think it was this amazing but Strider really can reliably set up unblockables. Firebrand covers my fast horizontal control, but my team doesn’t have access to a true lockdown assist. Burn kick is a surrogate lockdown, as opposed to using the assist as a set up to run incredibly scary mix up, it’s using formation B as a set up to run an unblockable assist set up.
For following what you want more I think something along the lines of Strider/Sent/Viper or Strider/Dante (Weaselshot)/Viper would fit more than my team though I honestly feel all of those options are excellent. I’d adore seeing what you could do with burn kick assist, dry tags and and a solid lockdown, I’m sure you’d be amazing with it!
Then again I have the team to optimize Viper more than it is to optimize Strider as I feel aside from Dark Phoenix, running a character on point with their best assists is the way to get the most out of them. I suffice for having Viper optimized with Strider/Firebrand and having Strider mainly have firebrand as his assist if he DHCs in as opposed to Strider on point to get 100% out of him. I go for more 100/80/70 as at this point I don’t see any 100/100/100 teams either in vanilla or ultimate marvel. The closest thing being Vanilla Wesker/Dante/Magneto which is really more of a 90/85/85
Thanks for the like Shoultz! Though I’d love to hear your opinion so we can both help optimize Strider into the near deity that he is!
How much does the intro combo with strider before vipers raw tag hurt damage/hit stun scaling. I ask this because viper gets off easy compared to the rest of the cast in terms of scaling, so I was wondering how much other characters can get off that would make it worth the tag. I had an idea to tag into shuma because ve’s video said that you could tag into shuma’s standing B, but he greatly suffers from scaling, so I don’t know how much I could get off the intro combo =/.
Assuming I didn’t start with Strider/Viper unblockable I get to either do an easy S /-, B, B, C, 9, B, C, S -/, summon strider 623A xx 62369A (strider hits), 623A 214A+B and appropriate DHC (read any of them)
Or the point of hit stun where it gets really hard: S /-, C, 9, C, S -/ summon firebrand, 623A, (Firebrand hits) xx 2147A -/, S /-\ C, 9, C, S -/ summon strider 623A xx 2369C~S (Strider hits), 214A+B and appropriate DHC.
It really depends on your opener, it’s obviously easier to go off of mid screen option B shot than off of an opening string like C+firebrand, 6C xx 214S (firebrand hits), C, 6C xx 623A, 214S, 236S xx C xx 623C as a starter.
ill post something up when I get free time later on tonight
Strider’s pressure without assist is completely better than Dante’s. Not that you should be using Strider without an assist unless he’s anchor. You shouldn’t be getting hit often by Dante without an assist unless he’s in Devil Trigger where he can fake his air dash.
If you think Vergil’s swords is like MVC2 orbs…I’m not sure if you’ve ever played or watched MVC2 before.
Strider/Doom was pretty up there as far as execution and planning for fighting game characters. Strider in this game will most likely also take a while to figure out (though not as long as MVC2 Strider obviously). If you don’t wanna put the work in that’s fine but, you’ll be hard pressed to not see a time where Strider is doing big shit in tourneys just like Zero in a matter of time. He basically covers the one weakness Zero had which is being able to be lamed out. Strider is the ultimate rush character that can’t be run away from and that’s huge in this game.
I didn’t read all of this I’ll be honest. But we quit talking about this a while ago to stay on the subject of thread. Just thought you should know that.
It’s the other way round, the synergy of MvC2 Strider and Doom was obvious within the 1st year of the game and they were a popular pair in the early tourney days. But that popularity dropped off it over the years once their limitations became obvious and the game ended up being Gundam vs Moaning vs Infinites. People really need to stop thinking that the early MvC2 days was Cable vs Iceman crap because that might be true in your arcade but it isn’t true among those who knew how to play the game.
I am not sure if I can agree “being able to be lamed out” is Zero’s weakness considering how Flocker won SB playing what is essentially a lame Zero…
Dante can solo cross ups with air dashes and instant overhead with teleports.
Burning 1 meter for safety… Yea so anchor strider with really conservative meter usages for your point character and dhc combos otherwise orbs will never see the light of day.
Strider’s teleport tracking is the worst one. It floats so much that you cannot do a safe cancel from a blocked magic series into teleport. I’ve tried multiple times, without an assist i put them in block string xx teleport, if a my opponent’s masher it forces me to block after appearing above, and any good player would just throw me or trade with their best normal.
The worst argument of swords is not shooting rings means you must of stood still in mvc2 with strider at full screen spamming cr. lp. Vergil’s swords is exactly how you would use it as mvc2 strider without an assist. You can rush in safely and not worry about instant dps/hc/assists, because it will trade on the least and you do a rear teleport instant crossup. The difference with vergil is, that his swords can be used to extend combos which is more than i can say for strider’s lv3 orbs.
As for anyone that things they know orbs, you want talk about spamming rings, you don’t know how to play then. Watch Clockwork, orbs into cling/teleport, no ring spamming. Rings do not matter since they are not overheads, the worst part is they come out at such a way that a push block will screw you up.
A lot of mix ups i’ve manage to pull on players are the ones that don’t know who strider is, i mean the ones that havn’t played mvc2, they will stare at me when i teleport, good ones either jump as soon as they see me teleport or duck, which is even worse. The only real crossups i’ve done solo is using the forward moment to dash under an opponent jumping from a fake back dash. Oh yeah, it doesn work against anyone that can airdash or fly.
Strider’s strong point currently is if you get to finish off a character, the next character jumping gives, you a 50/50 off birds into teleport or wall cling.
The only good combo i’ve seen is the gram xx formation b loop, which seems to be the real bnb that every strider needs to learn to do. Any other damaging combos requires precision positioning, or you can keep burning meter for 400k dmg off legion finisher and never get lv3 orbs.
if you’re disappointed by day 1 strider, theres always vergil
Day 1 Vergil >>>>> week 1 Strider
People are spoiled because MvC3 is an ABC game. Strider has some of the best toolkits/zoo in the game and does alright damage assistless if you have good execution. If you’re too lazy there’s always Wesker or Nemesis that you can derp with.
BTW Strider only needs 1 orb in this game, it’s called Formation B.
Of course at the same time he was fighting all characters that needed to get near Zero to beat him.
Strider is so much better than Vergil it’s not even funny. lol
Awwww Strider isn’t giving you free wins. Poor baby.