You’re hearing from the wrong people then.
If you’ve been in the tier list thread or watched tourneys you’d have known that Zero ended out of Vanilla as the last tourney winner of a US or more so world major at SB.
THIS. I really wish I could say something else.
And this tier list is from?
I’ve seen a lot of tier list threads on other fourms. Zero was usually high, but not the very top.
The right people are?
Uhh while zero is a really good character I uhhhh I don’t know about this list. It seems to be missing Wesker and Wolverine… Also about Viper, technically speaking she’s probably the best in that list. But the fact that she is under used and it’s rare that you’ll run into a viper that’s actually good in tournament (There are like 3 vipers that I ever see on any tournament stream that do well, that’s it) it almost seems pointless to have her in top tier since tier lists are also based on usage.
Personally from Vanilla I would say:
Phoenix
Wolverine
Wesker
Dante
Magneto
The fact that the one guy beat Viscant at seasons beatings and happened to have Zero on his team doesn’t put Zero at the top of the charts because Zero’s don’t place high enough in tournaments in general.
Exactly what I was saying. All of a sudden Zero became top tier and Wolverine and Wesker became nobodies?
Then tell me how the other characters who have proven to be big dogs all of a sudden can’t make top spot at a big major? Wolverine didn’t win Evo and didn’t win SB.Luckily he won enough stuff before characters like Zero and Dante + Tron assist came in to clear counter him. Just because Zero is a specialists character does not suddenly not make him top tier. Every Joe Shmoe doesn’t have to use a character for them to be top tier. Some characters just have execution and knowledge requirements that the average player (even top player) can’t really put together. Does that keep them from being top tier? Not if they shit on other characters including other proven top tiers when it comes down to it.
Viscant has admitted in Vanilla to Zero + Tron being a clear counter to both Wolverine and Wesker.
At least Wesker won one of the majors. Viper is more so going on the fact that in thoery she has the tools that basically makes it so she loses almost no matchups with the correct assist but she’s only won one major specifically (Toronto Championships, Marlin Pie over Combofiend). Zero and Dante were held down a bit by not getting top spots at majors but Dante almost winning Evo and Zero winning SB pretty much places them as clear top tiers of Vanilla.
It was proven in Vanilla that Wolverine gets hard countered by top tier + Haggar or Tron assist. Now those characters won’t even need those assists as much now that the invincibility on berserker slash is gone you won’t need invincible to counter the invincible.
Wesker was easily top tier in Vanilla but had matchups against top tiers and even non top tiers that were clear counters for him. Zero or Dante + invincible assist were clear counters, Trish at the top of the screen plus assist was more or less clear counter, Viscant has said that even Spider Man and Modok are possible clear counters to him because they can attack from a range that Wesker has almost no options of dealing with without an anti air assist.
If you don’t follow the game…yeah Wolverine is probably still the best shit you’ve ever seen but the game has moved since then and now Wolverine is gonna struggle to get past B tier the way things are going.
Strider is simply a specialist character like Zero, Dante etc. Top tier player with average execution won’t make him top but top tier player who is will most likely show this guy to run shit. **Luckily he also comes with an assist where if you’ve only been playing fighting games since MVC3…is still a top tier assist. **
You must have went on a hiatus following the game after about June of this year. Wolverine and Wesker aren’t nobodies they just clearly don’t have the game crushing potentials of other top tiers. They’re simply the easiest to use of characters you could consider top tier. Common man top tiers etc.
i wonder what characters will be cannon for strider.
Strider+Dr. Doom?
It doesn’t matter if wolverine didn’t win Evo. He was all over top 32 and made top 8. Tron counters any character period. She counters rush down characters the best since they are… well rush down. But at any point in time when you are applying rush down or trying to get in with any character in the cast tron was a counter. As far as character potential yes based on potential alone Zero is a top tier character. But again tiers are also based on usage. That’s why tiers can differ based on regions and countries. Flocker winning over Viscant does move Zero up the list, but it doesn’t put him above the old top tiers with one good performance. At Season’s beatings how many other Zero’s placed well?
Any character + Tron is a counter to wolverine. Zero is a counter to wolverine anyway. But that doesn’t change that wolverine had higher placements in tourneys in Vanilla. As of right now in the first week of UMVC3 wolverine is still doing better in tournaments than Zero. Check out Team Spooky, Iplaywinner, finestkoproductions, jaxelrod, levelupseries, boom gorilla,etc. Not by nearly as much, it’s certainly a lot closer but wolverine still seems to be doing better.
A character winning one major doesn’t place that character at the top automatically. A freaking team with Hsien Ko on it could win a major and are you telling me that she would go to the top now too? Combofiend has won how many tournaments with shehulk spencer and taskmaster. Which one of those characters is top tier?
Haggar and tron counter everything when you’re in close.
Trish can’t kill wesker for starters. With the right assist (like akuma) as soon as trish is back on the ground she’s playing on wesker’s terms. Wesker can still avoid most of trishes keep away game any and spam gunshot. Also yes wesker has tough matchups, every character has tough matchups except for vanilla phoenix basically. I don’t get where you’re going with talking about all of wesker’s bad matchups.
Wolverine is not going to be doing any struggling getting past B tier. For the time being he is around A tier. It’s still very early in Ultimate to say anything about any tiers though.
By specialist you mean different? As metagame progresses there are basic protocols for any character as far as mixups, combo’s etc. There is typically a basic schema of what combo’s you’ll do in any situation for maximum damage and also basic bnb’s. A top tier player with average execution doesn’t have to do any work at all to learn how to use a “specialist” character well. All he has to do is watch youtube videos of combo’s that other people spent hours on in the lab, go into the lab himself and learn to do these combos. The ironic thing is that you aren’t likely to see the person that developed all these flashy combos placing well in any tournament.
And another note on average execution and top tier players. A lot of top tier players do have average execution and don’t do anything special with their characters at all. They just play the game smart and have good instincts and work hard. Viscant, your favorite player? Is an example of this.
I don’t get what this is supposed to mean.
Why does it matter how many other Zeros placed well? If one beat EVERYBODY that’s it. Everyone else should have stepped up their Zeros or built better teams around him.
Wolverine has a lot of players playing him. That doesn’t mean he’s doing better. Everybody played Sentinel a lot in February also.
Representation doesn’t mean as much as people think it does.
Haggar COUNTERS Logan on point. His use overtime was going to drop hard. Haggar shuts down his braindead approach and ruins the tempo he tries to run the game at. No one hit kill, no XF and mix up on incoming char which ruins the high speed game he runs and makes the Logan player play slower which upsets there plan.
Also, Viscant with HAGGAR ATE every Logan. Hell, PR Balrog won against Viscant with Tron and Dante more times over Logan.
But Zero was top tier. High priorty, good zoning, mobility, high damage with some execution, good assists after go double everthing.
Zero would end up being better than Logan. Strider… fuck the ninja. I see him anywhere, I WILL waste the snapback and XF to kill his ass.
Due to the fact he is like a faster Zero with a better zoning game, bullshit level three, fullscreen combos with ease and bullshit mixups. Yeah ninja going to die.
Because Tiers are also based on how well a character places at tournaments and not tournament. Based on a point system let’s say 1st place is worth 10 points, second 8, third 5 (or whatever point system you want to run). And lets say you base this point system over 3 majors. If wolverine places 3rd twice, and 2nd once, while Zero places 1st once, Wolverine still has more points and would be higher on a tier list. Personally I think Zero is a better character, I use Zero. But just because he’s a better character doesn’t place him above the ones that are abused in higher level game play that place better. But if you’re strictly saying based on character potential alone then yes on a tier list solely based off that and not on tournament results, zero is higher than wolverine imo.
With that logic She Hulk was S tier in Vanilla.
Tier lists are not based entirely on tourneys but on the knowledge of there matchups against certain chars. In MvC, this includes certain assists.
Zero has some of the most BS matchups in the game. As will Strider.
In earlier Vanilla she probably was. But in later vanilla besides combofiend how many people were placing well with her?
With your logic if a Haggar point wins a major (which is possible no matter how dumb it sounds) then he’s automatically S tier.
If you’re referring to my statements I said that tier lists also include tournament results, not that they are tournament results alone.
The Zero, Viper, and Dante technology was still being developed in the late days of Vanilla.
Early tournaments, even those closely leading up to EVO were played with the characters which required the least effort.
There wasn’t enough down time before EVO to develop technology for a new engine/game/metagame, so this is why the Wolverine/Wesker/Akuma/Sentinel simply had more people playing them.
Compare to Iceman / Blackheart in early MvC2 as a crude thought.
EDIT: On topic: It’s still early days for Ultimate Strider.
We still have a 30 day money back guarantee… err, I mean…
Haggar is S tier in an assist rating chart, yes.
People need to stop with this silly representation stuff. This thread is about strider, not about zero or vanilla wolverine populations.
Dude there was already ridiculous technology for all of them. From early Vanilla Zero and Dante were clearly BFF with touch of death combo’s with two meters which zero could build while he was sleeping. And in a sense the underdogs aren’t necessarily even underdogs, they have advantages. The characters that are being abused the most and having the most success are the one’s people are going to focus videos and threads on how to deal with. There are video’s of how to deal with the wolverine (guard cancel dive kick) akuma (push block on the correct frame to punish tatsu) etc, which gives people are using less abused characters matchup advantages. Yet despite all of this info those same characters still did well and it’s because they are simple characters with low risk high reward.