Dhalsim's Matchups

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
221

I tested it before, CPU on auto block. If you do the full low combo, they’ll block the last two hits. If you do get trapped in the Rekkas, just hold db and hope that they do a low attack. The last one is a throw but it can be blocked (if that makes sense). If the do the full mid combo I dont think you can get out of that anyway.

I thought Abel fell short when hes a full screen distance with ultra?

Has anyone ever faced a REALLY spammy Ken? His fierce SRK (or EX, cant remember) hit me out of Super!

222

For whatever reason, this does not work against Dhalsim. I’ve seen it attempted multiple times, and Abel’s ended up wasting his Ultra every time. But when I say full screen, I mean full-screen. Not 3/4 or anything like that. If you’re in range for a limb, you’re too close. That does mean you won’t have the opportunity often, of course, but it’s something to keep in mind.

3rd stage Rekka is a throw animation, but it’s not a throw. It can be blocked. It’s also fairly easy to see whether he’s going high or low.

Another thing you should know is that anybody with an invincible reversal (dragon punch, etc.) can bust right out of a Rekka mid-string. I don’t know if Dhalsim has anything fast enough, but his Super may do it. At some point, I’ll try to do some testing with reversal teleports and supers to see if there’s a more reliable option than just blocking.

@Don Calzone - b+HK is probably an option at certain ranges. Abel’s jump arc is pretty similar to the Shotos, so I imagine the same answers would work. I didn’t try to use it because the Abel I was playing mostly only jumped from point-blank range for the j.MK cross-up.

@Serpentine - I think that’s right. High Rekkas will combo, so if you get tagged with the first, chances are Abel will either finish the chain, or do something sneaky (like dropping one to set up a throw, FADC to Uppercut, etc.). Just stay on your toes.

223

Yep. I used to try my super after a knock down at the end of a match to chip him to death. If you’re too close he’ll smack you right out of it. If you’re far enough away not to get hit, it won’t chip worth a darn. Needless to say, I don’t attempt it anymore.

Also, I’ve been tagged by Abel’s Ultra full screen after throwing out a light fire.

224

That’s really weird. Maybe I need to do some testing here to see what causes it to hit or miss. It must be a timing issue.

225

If you throw a fireball when your back is against the wall and Abel’s back is against the other wall, Abel can actually walk forward a bit and ultra you on reaction. If he just ultras from there it won’t hit, but if he takes a couple steps, it will. Don’t throw fireballs when there’s a chance that Abel can land ultra on you.

226

Gotcha. That makes sense, then. The Abels I’ve played must not have realized that. Still might be good bait if they happen to be down or whiffing air throws for meter, then, but risky against anyone decent. Will file in ‘not real bright’ category and move on.

227

Abel’s Change of Direction (his Rekka, also known as CoD) goes first hit (can blocked either)- second mid or low - third mid or low. Although the last hits of the string look like throws they can be blocked but they do break armor so don’t try to FA it.

Also, either second hit can combo into the third mid, but nothing combos at all into the third low (although he’s safer on block with that hit then other parts of the string from what I hear).

As an Abel player I sadly don’t know Sim’s specific options to get out of it, but the first hit on block is -7 so it’s unsafe. If you miss your chance on the first hit and he goes for the low, you have enough time to jump out. If goes to finish the string mid-mid, he’s unsafe again and in your face so you could either throw or perhaps b+mk xx yoga flame. Some also like to end the string prematurely and go for a throw, so watch out for that too.

228

I played my first good Gouken a couple of nights ago. It’s mostly a straight-forward match, but two Ultra setup tricks jumped out at me.

Noogie throw, point-blank Ultra, b+Jab. Gouken obviously saw it coming and used his high parry (I don’t remember if it was EX or not), knocking me all the way across the screen with generous enough invincibility frames for the rest of the Ultra to move right through him.

Noogie throw, point-blank Ultra (no, I didn’t learn my lesson, thanks for asking!). This time, made wary by the parry, I decided to play it safe and stagger my timing a bit. Turns out EX Demon Flip has invincibility, and jumped right out of my setup.

So that was neat. The rest of the match was pretty much standard, so no real insights there. Empty IATs can bait a parry if the Gouken swings that way. That’s about it.

229

If you do a point-blank ultra on wakeup, the majority of the cast can throw you out of it (havent tested it with everybody, so dont know who cant but definietly know Boxer can). And since theyre invincible during the throw animation, they can back throw you do have a long animation so the ultra goes through them, and because its a back throw they move further away from the fireball. Also, some people may choose to use their ultra when they see yours. It’ll go through yours and hit you. Oh yeah, Geif can PPP Lariat through the whole thing.
What I normally do is Noogie, back dash, ultra. Or back throw, ultra, teleport. Depends where we are on the screen.
If you throw out a Fire and Gouken parries it, does the counter attack hit you from full screen? I heard its got some crazy distance.

230

Didn’t come up. He can parry your limbs from full range, but that’s obvious. I would doubt that he’d be able to counter Yoga Fire that way, though.

And yeah, I know the point-blank setup is risky, but it’s what I saw an opportunity for at the time. I think if you time the b+jab correctly (i.e. right after your Ultra comes out), they stand up into its active frames and can’t throw. Wouldn’t mind confirmation on that. The big issue is reversals with invincibility frames, which in retrospect I should probably have realized Gouken had. You live and learn.

231

i can’t tell you how frustrating it is to see boxer head butt through an ultra or have someone grab you through the ultra.

232

personally, i got trouble against blanka and boxer. a good boxer can get in very quick, and can do damage in like 2 seconds. hard to come back against him. blanka, just quick and once he gets ex, hes hard to get around. those are my biggest 2 matchups i’d say.

against gief: yoga tower ignores throws, including spd soooo, if he does get close that works best? risky but he cant just spam them. yoga tower > backthrow > tele away. and youve got distance again. just dont jump, cause lariat > the world

233

I’d like to discuss the claw match if anyone’s interested…

I was playing against my friend last night who has a pretty solid claw in my opinion and I was having loads of trouble. I think we went like 8-3 claw.

The match really isn’t so bad at the start. Since you can toss out Yoga fires and generally bring claw to you. But as soon as claw gets ultra, the whole pace of the match changes. Without fireballs or a life lead. You’re forced into chasing claw from corner to corner…which even if you do corner him, as well timed wall dive can get him out of there.

Up close, Claw can be a monster. Those jabs will lead will always lead into a good dmg combo with knockdown for wall dive setup.

Anti airing is weird against claw, he’s got one of those jumpins that tends to beat b-rh or trade with it. Even at the lower angles…

Speaking of wall dives, dealing with them can be a pain. I was having the most luck with teleport, but sometimes it put me in a bad spot and the motion got fucked up if they crossed me up. Anti-air with back strong will work if they drop in front of you, but will miss if they wall dive in back of you.

Ah more later…

234

Some general thoughts. I’ve mostly seen this match from the Claw end.

  1. Vega doesn’t need an Ultra to make you pay for fireballing. A down charge and one EX stock will suffice - EX Sky-high Claw (the horizontal walldive) goes through fireballs and, more importantly, knocks down and closes distance. Fireballs are good (and if he tries to backflip one to avoid chip, nail him with limbs on recovery), but dangerous unless you’re unpredictable with timing - even then, pretty easy to punish on reaction. Also, Vega’s main means of dealing with fireballs (Ultra, EX SHC, EX ST, walldive) all require a down charge, so you’re free to toss them out when he’s walking. Well, that’s not entirely true… he’s also got EX RCF (back charge), but it’s really slow and kinda shit. It DOES go through fireballs though. Might be a good wakeup through an Ultra setup.

  2. Upthread suggests MK sliding out of wall-dives. This is a good idea, and genuinely annoying for Vega. You can’t start the slide too early, because Vega can see it coming and alter his trajectory to hit you anyway, but it can sometimes be pretty hard to adjust even if Claw sees it coming. If you get predictable, though, you’re going to start getting punished. Mix up slides with blocking, teleports, IATs. You can also meet Claw in the air if you have enough time, and knock him out of his wall-dive with j.b+RH or j.RH (this seems easier than j.MP). Vega does have a way around this - if he sees that you like to jump-normal his wall-dives, he can start throwing out jab Sky-high Claw, which has a high trajectory and will usually win air-to-air. It’s risky though, and he has to commit to it. Every whiffed or blocked wall-dive = HP at least.

  3. Be careful about jumping against Vega, especially if he has an Ultra stocked. Teleports are good, though. Vega’s only good reliable anti-airs are air-to-air, but because Dhalsim spends so much time up there, Vega has plenty of time to come meet you if, say, he blocks j.HP. Back-jump j.HP probably isn’t a good idea either. I’m pretty sure Vega can just take the hit and then nail you with EX Walldive (he’ll lose that charge if he blocks, of course) at some spacings.

  4. j.HP has super high priority. Very hard to AA. You’re probably best off blocking. Up close, Vega’s not as dangerous as you think he is. Block low, and there’s not that much he can do, apart from trying for throws. His main pokes push him out, except for unsafe slide, pokes cancelled into the roll, and df+RH (the advancing heel kick), which leaves him at significant advantage on block - watch for a throw attempt. 'Sim can probably slide under it, though. Short slide, in general, is a good option to break Vega’s pressure.

In general, Vega’s all flash and no thunder. He looks like he has good pressure, but in reality it’s all an act… he can’t actually break a crouch block, so he’s trying to get you to make a mistake that he can counterpoke into damage (and his pokes have pretty damn good priority), and he’s trying to set up throws. He’s only confusing if he goes to the wall, but walldives are usually a big risk with a small reward.

235

I’m having a hard time facing C. Viper:( I especially hate her flame kick. She does it on the spot to punish my pokes. And when she jumps at me with it I have a hard time deciding if its going to hit me from the front or the back. Anybody has some good tips for this matchup?

236

Read my previous post:

*Vs. C.Viper: She is just very hard to zone. It almost feels like trying to zone a weaker version of ST Claw. The fact that she has a super jump and can somewhat alternate it using the Burning Kick is a pain in the ass for Dhalsim to say the least. Although j.MP beats many of her aerial options, including the Burning Kick in most cases, she can also “tiger knee” the Burning Kick, which creates even more problems as far as tricking you into doing the wrong anti-air attack is concerned, so she can approach you, or even punish you for whiffing something like a neutral j.MP.

Seismic Hammers, albeit very punishable and not her main focus in this match up, are still a threat, too. They remain something a Dhalsim player has to constantly watch out for.

Once she gets close, she can apply pressure, especially on Dhalsim due to a lack of an invincible move on his part. Aerial Burning Kicks and MP Thunder Knuckles are all completely safe on block. In fact, I think MK and HK Burning Kicks leave her at a frame advantage on block; the MP Thunder Knuckle does not, but it is an armor-breaking special move. Needless to say, up close she is highly dangerous as she can apply pressure and dizzy Dhalsim rather easily.

I have done my research, and I have noticed that C.Viper’s hardest match ups come from characters (even low mid tier ones, such as Honda) who can get into her face. Characters who can simply put offensive pressure on her. However, “Dhalsim” and “offensive pressure” is an oxymoron in Street Fighter IV. The fact that he is a one-dimensional characters means that he is severely crippled in some match ups in which he cannot force his style of gameplay on his opponents. My point is that ST Dhalsim had Drill Kicks and good tick throws. SFIV Dhalsim has neither, which is why his offensive game is almost non-existant, which is why, again, he struggles against characters like Viper, whom Dhalsim would probably be better of semi-rushing rather than zoning. *

Use neutral j.MP / j.HK to beat Flame Kicks when the Viper player uses it randomly. Do not bother using b+HK too much in this match up. It is worthless since she will mostly be jumping directly at your head, so stick to b+MP when you are on the ground. When she does ambiguous cross ups (and trust me they are) using Flame Kicks after knock downs, it can be really difficult to block, and there are no easy ways out as far as I know (especially since she can just super jump in and do other mix ups). Just remember to block cross ups by holding forward. Do not panic, though. If you try to force your way out, Viper can stun Dhalsim in a heartbeat.

I have no other suggestions because every time I play this match up using Dhalsim I usually lose unless I can land a lucky IAT -> j.HP -> b+MK -> LP Yoga Flame -> Yoga Inferno. Basically, Viper is immensely hard to zone - she has a super jump, good air-to-air priority, and a Flame Kick that can obviously be used in the air to change the way she lands. All of this is a disaster for Dhalsim because it screws with his anti-aerial game. To make matters worse, she also has Seismic Hammers, which do more damage than Yoga Fires, so you cannot trade with them. She can apply pressure up close easily with quick pokes into MP Thunder Knuckle (which is 100% safe on block). Eat 2-3 simple combos and you are dizzy.

She can fly around the screen. She is very fast. She can get in your face. She can dizzy you easily. With the exception of the initial tier list, I have yet to see one that does not have this match up listed as 3:7 favoring Viper.

237

So I tested a few things on Abel and Vega.

You can hit a Super between blocked Rekkas. Whether this is a good idea or not is up to you, because Abel can stop short and good ones mix up how much of the chain they use.

You cannot teleport between blocked Rekkas (at least, I can’t).

You cannot go under Vega’s Cosmic Heel (df+RH) with a short slide. It looks like you should be able to, but in fact he’ll hit you and start a combo if you try. However, the startup on df+RH is high enough that you can stuff it with a short slide.

ed: Vega can’t hit you in the air with EX Walldive after eating a neutral or forward j.HP, though he can still enter one with a timing that will nail you if you try to attack once you hit the ground (this is not easy to do). If he does enter the EX Walldive early, it seems to beat j.HP most of the time, close to even trade (minor damage advantage Vega, but on a trade he can’t follow with an Izuna or whatever; plus, one EX stock, and Vega needs meter bad). I didn’t get a chance to try punishing a connected jump-back HP, but it should be possible. Will do later.

238

I’m not positive, but it seemed like j B+RH stuffed a lot of Vegas attempts in the air to do much, including wall dives. Has anyone tested this out?

Also, I was fighting a pretty good Vega player last nite (about 4k bp), and one interesting thing I found out was.

He would often WD, and I’d block/tele/slide and punish. He figured this out, so he started short walldiving to bait my punish, and then hit me during recovery. So, I started jumping forward, and doing nothing. His WD recovery was bad enough to let me throw him back into the corner every time.

239

Hello again fellow Dhalsim players,

Still having a very difficult time against Abel players. At a distance he is no problem but once he gets in close it’s all over for me. Is there a way to stop his rolling move? It seems that he is invincible when he does this. Thanks for the tips!

240

You can throw him out of it, if you time it right.

The one thing I find key in Abel match ups, is to pretty much never throw out fires once he has his ultra.