Dhalsim - YOGUH!

Classic Fighting Games SSF2T: HD Remix
421

Fatboy,

Are there videos of a Dhalsim/Dictator corner trap lockdown? I’d love to see an example of a tighter lock than what I’m currently doing. I try to keep my drilling to a minimum to avoid the Jump Strong x3, which I have been hit by with other players. The reason I stick out so many normals (including the db strong or db fierce) is to stuff the Jump Strong, which is where I get a lot of my damage. It also gives me many branches where I can sneak in a drill unexpectedly when they’re not jumping at me or doing standing jab.

If I use the db mp -> FP fb, that leaves me at an impasse on the next move. If I drill, can’t Dictator hit me with jump MP x3? Or standing jab the drill? Do I slide there instead? I’m making up much of this strategy as I go along, so I’m open to a more efficient strategy.

SweetPoison,

I’m using a Radio Shack S-Video distribution amplifier plugged into an S-Video Dazzle capture card, which records to my PC. I’m playing in S-Video, compared to HD in the living room, but the trade-off for the video recording is worth stomaching the poorer visuals.

There are a ton of videos of me fighting Balrog on my youtube. General strategy is db jab the rushes. Push him out with standing strong or fierce (both long), then fireball trap and punish jumps or headbutt through the fireball. The only things that give me trouble in that match are random TAP’s of high charge or psychic headbutts which hit my limbs. If I avoid those two pitfalls, the match usually goes in my favor.

If you want to show me your corner trap vs. Dictator, I’d love to see it, or an example of someone else doing it. I feel I can do better at that match in general.

I only have a general strategy for Cammy. I could definitely use more practice against a good one. Bruce Askew has offered to play a set, so that will probably happen sometime soon, then we’ll see if this strategy changes. My current gameplan against her is:

  1. Block her combo strings when she jumps on your head. The bread and butter which gets you killed fast is low strong, low forward, cannon drill -> dizzy. Don’t get hit by that and you’ll live long enough to make a fight of it.

  2. If she 2in1’s the low forward into hooligan, you can back jab it by mashing.

  3. If I suspect she’s going to cannon drill, I drill which hits the cannon drill clean.

  4. If she sits still long enough for me to do something, fireball trap her (similar to Boxer).

  5. When she jumps, RH slide.

Anything more advanced than that, I’ll have to figure out as I’m fighting Bruce. If Cammy is hitting you with psychic DP’s, I don’t think there’s much you can do, other than be not as predictable and block more.

422

Eggo one more question about the recording. When you record are you playing and watching your game on your pc monitor?

423

I would highly suggest that you get a Hauppage HD PVR if you like playing in HD. You can record at 720p/1080i with 0 lag on the television screen. And you can upload them directly to YouTube in their native format.

Check my YouTube channel for example videos. Here is an example of an [media=youtube]kRiHpNYbPpU&fmt=22"[/media] using the device.

424

eamegaman, you are the man.

And I’m still on a mission to take your fat man down. lol

Okay so in regards to this device, if I read it correctly I can plug my 360 into the component video input of this device and then there is component video out that goes from the device to component video input on my television.

425

Any time dude, any time! :slight_smile:

Yup, you got it!

426

Also is there any lag input from the controller when you hook it up this way?

427

This statement addresses some of the issues giving you some difficulties in your play style. Which I have a perspective about. However, I want to address the the advantages of DB+MP vs DB+ FP first.

Several times in the videos I saw you DB+FP> FB. I am suggesting you do the DB+MP> instead. Here are the reasons:

  • DB+MP can be canceled into a special attack. DB+FP can not.

  • DB+MP comes out in 4 frames. DB+FP comes out in 6.

  • They have IDENTICAL hit boxes.

  • DB+MP does 11% damage. DB+FP does 12% Damage.

  • Assuming you cancel out of the first possible frame, the DB+MP>gives 1~2 frame widow for Dic to escape in ST (He now has new devil reverse in HDR, however, it hardly charged in game and I rarely see it used to avoid this). Only a Reversal super would get him out. 99% of jumps, specials, and normals will get hit by the FB. If he is hit, he’ll get knocked down for 13% damage, or take block damage if he blocks. When the block damage and DB+MP are added together you do mare damage that the DB+FP.

-Assuming you cancel out of the first possible frame, the DB+FP> it gives a 11 frame widow for Dic to escape. Not to mention the DB+FP pushes Dic a substantial distance father away than the MP. In SF 11 frames in an eternity. Combining the 11 frame window and the distance pushed out by the FP, you give him forever to do something and all the space he needs to do it.

Now getting back to your statement:

Why do you need a next move? Dictator will be pushed out to the optimal distance away after a DB+MP >FP FB. Why not just wait to see what he does, and the counter? You don’t need to continue your press (every time).

Sometimes it is OK to let the other person make a mistake. Sometimes it just takes the patience to wait for them to make a mistake themselves. You don’t always have to create the mistake. B/c You never know, while you are pressing… they maybe waiting for you to make a mistake.

As we discussed in your other posts. You don’t always have to flame on the get up, press a noogie trap, or drill to create pressure. On high levels of play ppl will wait for these attack patterns, and they’ll punish them.

Anyway… I not sure this will help. But, thanks for listeing to what I have to say (again)! :clown:

428

I have not tested it with the Dhalsim throw technique to be sure, but there appears to be no lag to the TV. If you are concerned you can always get a component distribution amplifier. It would be just like how Eggo does his recording only using a component signal.

429

Hmm… that is very tempting, but I don’t think it would work for my setup. I have an HDTV in the living room. My PC and standard def TV are in the bedroom, where I currently record. If I bought this, I’d have to move my PC to the living room, which I don’t want to do. Also, if I ran component to my TV, it would be 1080i instead of 1080p, which is a minor quibble. My TV supports 1080p via the VGA cable or HDMI, not component, though some TV’s do.

There’s no way to record with the box in the living room and then bring it to the PC in the bedroom to upload from there, right? Since the data is recorded directly onto the PC?

430

Sometimes it is OK to let the other person make a mistake. Sometimes it just takes the patience to wait for them to make a mistake themselves. You don’t always have to create the mistake. B/c You never know, while you are pressing… they maybe waiting for you to make a mistake.

As we discussed in your other posts. You don’t always have to flame on the get up, press a noogie trap, or drill to create pressure. On high levels of play ppl will wait for these attack patterns, and they’ll punish them.

^^^Well said man. I have found the more I play with Sim that to get to the next level is not so much just knowing how to counter the opponent but learning how not to be predictable and making them make mistakes. Because the good opponent also know how to counter and it becomes a mental chess match. This has worked wonderfully for me against characters when I get them in a corner.

EA megaman I am bidding right now on one on Ebay. You have no idea how long I have been trying to find something like this. I just hope there is no controller lag. If you havent noticed any than I should be fine.

And yeah man I would like to play you again with my Sim. I have improved and would love to evaluate my gameplay against your Honda.

Later bro and thank you for your help as well.

431

Yeah my tv does 1080i one of the first generation HDTVs and it uses component video to get that signal. I plan on having my laptop by the box but I dont see why you couldnt move the box upstairs to your pc eggo. The data will be on the box so the only inconvienence would be moving the box from your two areas.

I’m stoked about this. I will love having the opportunity to record my vids as well.

432

Is there any trick to performing this trap? Is it just spacing? Does it matter what button you’re using for the flame? I’m starting to use it against Bison, but I don’t think I’m doing it right. It doesn’t look the same as when Gian did it. I had a Bison jump out of it once, so I feel either I mistimed it or I’m not doing it right.

I’ve started to incorporate the db strong -> fierce fireball into my game. It’s not fully natural yet, but you’ll start to see more of it in use. It’ll get better as it becomes instinctive and I don’t have to think about it. I’m also going to try AA’ing Bison with back jab and short. Gonna try the short slide against the stomp follow-up and the Devil’s Reverse as well.

433

Help. As I have stated I’m trying to be one of the better Sim’s out there. With that means being able to play against better people.

So last night I am playing DGV’s Ryu and man trying to break through him is like trying to break through Fort Knox. His timing is impeccable and his execution is mind boggling. I finally just countered his fireballs as Sim can throw them faster than Ryu (thats a first I think) but all that did was fill his super meter and he would wait for one little crevice (mistake by me) and hit me with it.

I tried staying within a range so I could drill but when I go up and attempt he would counter with mashing jab. If I got to close throwing a fireball he would hit me with a hurricance kick. Trust me most Ryu’s dont even phase me but there are a few that play defensive (RoyalPhlush) and it just messes me up. I guess I dont have to attack but then I let them build up two supers in a match which spell disaster sooner or later.

I was able to get him with the yoga fire trap but it was hard getting him in the corner. Any suggestions for this type of style player?

434

If you’re using Microsoft’s official component AV cable (http://www.microsoft.com/products/info/CatImg/ProdImg/1/22/489610ed-9255-4d82-b712-7745107f935e_large.jpg), I’d recommend the Easycap USB capture device (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=easycap&aq=f). It goes for about $12 shipped on eBay.

Since the Microsoft component cable has a spare composite video output (the yellow cable), I hook that up to the Easycap. This is ideal because it separates the capture signal (composite) from the signal that is being sent to your TV or monitor (component). It’s sending out two signals at once with no degradation.

Surprisingly, the quality is very high even though it’s composite. The Easycap is supposedly able to capture at 720p, but I haven’t tried it because I capture at 320x240 to save space. I also capture without sound and then compress the videos with Xvid to further save space.

For $12, you really can’t go wrong.

435

Ok that Jodim (Zangief) vs JCole (Dhalsim) match has been uploaded to youtube [media=youtube]B-O0XqbEh6k"[/media]. Much thanks to Voltech who did the honors.

Am I crazy, or were they both playing drunk? Both of them were doing some weird stuff that I would never do as Zangief or Dhalsim. Like Dhalsim not throwing many Fires, and Zangief just standing doing nothing within range of Dhalsim’s limbs. WTF? There were no Green Hands to counter what little Fires were thrown, and hardly any tick > SPDs when Zangief finally got in range. And Dhalsim doing all those whiffed b+Fierce…why? I was expecting an all out match, but it looks like they were clowning around.

436

I spectated those matches when they first happened and I always felt that it was a respect thing. They both knew the other was quite capable and they seemed to go away from the traditional tactics to see if they could gain and edge on each other.

437

I typically always go DB+MK into FB… Should I be using DB+MP more often? What are the advantages/disadvantages of each?

438

I always thought db+:mk: was the better way to go, myself. I just looked at the frame data and here’s the comparison.

Close cr.:mp: has 4 startup frames, 5 hitting frames, and 8 recovery frames.

Close cr.:mk: has 2 startup frames, 8 hitting frames, and 6 recovery frames.

So, if you add up the numbers, close cr.:mp: has 17 total frames, while close cr.:mk: has 16 total frames. You can interrupt close cr.:mp: on it’s fifth frame, but you can interrupt close cr.:mk: on it’s third frame. So, in my mind, that tells me that close cr.:mk: would be the better attack to cancel from because you’ll not only get frame advantage, but you’ll be closer than you would with close cr.:mp:.

That being said, given how great fatboy’s posts generally are, I’d say that mixing between the two moves isn’t a bad idea. I’m sure there are different things that the different spacings given by the two moves would allow you to take advantage of.

Also keep in mind, though, that since close cr.:mk: recovers faster, it makes for a great move to link other normals from and, more relevant to a corner trap situation, it makes for a great move to tick throw from, too.

Edit: I just saw why fatboy said what he said. Look at the hitting frames and recovery frames on both moves. Mixing between close cr.:mp: XX Yoga Fire and close cr.:mp:, Throw, is much more viable than subbing in close cr.:mk:. Remember that grounded medium attacks stun for 16 frames. After close cr.:mp:, you can move in for the throw after 12 frames. After close cr.:mk:, you can move in after 13 frames. Something to remember when you have people trapped in the corner. Don’t forget to always mix up both your tactics and your ticking normals.

439

I used to use the db+mk all the time. Here is the problem, experienced players who can figure out your playing style will start to pepper in lk scissor kicks. During a DB+MK pokes, a scissor kick will go right over your DB+MK kick (at about sweeps distance away). . They’ll knock you down, and set you up for a cross up TOD. Common places that most Sim players use the DB+MK> MK are after drills, mummys, long distance scissor kicks (where Dic lands just a bit out of his throw range) , blocked cross up combo (not ending with a blocked PC), and a blocked DR & Head stomp follow up.

Many well played dictators, will wait for these situations and do a physic scissor kick right afterwords (some times they’ll take a small step back). They are a the optimal range to go right over the DB+MK.

It took many losses for me to realize that I needed a alternative attack. That could hit mid and knock him out of any attack. That is where the DB+MP comes in.

The interesting thin g about the db+mp is that it has the same exact range as the db+mk. It does have a slower start up by 2 frames, but prevents Dic from doing the sciccors of psycho crushers after the listed situations. I’d much rather stop the scissor kick pressure, push out him out, and possibly set him on fire, than have a fast attack whiff a smart player, lose 20% of my life and be knocked down for a cross up. But that is just me. :wink:

The other interesting thing to note, is that scrubs can sometimes catch us of guard and go crazy with stupid random SKs and PCs from seeming random positions. Every Sim player knows they have been hit by completely random close SKs and PCs. The DB+MP prevents that BS from happening.

DON’T get me wrong there are plenty of places where the DB+MK is better that the DB+MB. But you need to know the distance and situations where each is a viable and solid tactic.

Anyway, thanks for listing/ asking. Hope it helps. :china:
~fatboy

Edit* Good post OJ! However, you can substitute the DB+MK for DB+HK, and you still have the problem with the scissor kicks.

440

Will the Scissor Kick go over db+:mk: if it’s meaty? Can you do either db+:mp: or db+:mk: at a range that’s outside of Dictator’s throw range?